Race Report Thread

rogan
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:31 pm
Location: Sydney

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby rogan » Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:50 pm

So, I was in the race with queequeg and yes it was fast, but I have been faster in C Grade, but only slightly faster, and only twice (out of 10+ rides in C Grade). It was generally a good consistent pace with some surging, not much sitting around waiting for someone to take up arms, but no really extended fast intense periods of racing either. No one got dropped, which is unusual in itself. Winter is a key here, it has been a cold winter, it was cold on Sunday, and there is no way I personally go as fast when it's 5C compared to what I can do 15C or 18C. It is also just possible that standards are slipping slightly at West Head - that other B Grade race was really quite slow. Giving up 4.5 minutes in 35 km to a supposedly identical quality grade, itself going no faster than C Grade has gone in the past, is poor racing.

Maybe last month's preferred club entry shenanigans had an effect on the quality of the turnout? That's history now anyway, thankfully.

I've seen breaks get established from all sorts of places on that course. But more often the winning move is go hard from the last turnaround. IME breaks often get very close, but actually win less than 20% of the time. Any break requires the bunch to be a bit weary and a really all out effort. The double hill heading home sometimes works, not at the turnaround, the segment called Tre Colli on strava. You need to be willing to give it everything though. The northern end turnaround is often used, but almost never successfully. The next few km after descending the wall are just too fast and easy, generally downhill, in the bunch for a solo break to succeed. It's nice if you can totally split the bunch, but that's unusual. In that respect the best bet is the hill right at the start.
Image

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby vosadrian » Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:43 pm

I suspect any dropping in standard is just seasonal. People off form, less competition for entry, colder temps for slower racing. Actually another difference is there are no longer B prestige and Hubbard. Is it possible that the old B Prestige riders are now riding in A pretender and as a result the B pace is not as fast as it used to be? That may have thrown out my expectations as I have not raced there since the older system.

I had a funny but painful experience once there. Last lap coming up the double hill before going through the finish line in reverse. A strong rider attacks, and I go with him. I am giving most that I have to stay on, and we crest the hill and he is still giving it all going down the other side. I sit on his wheel expecting him to flick an elbow, but he just goes harder and starts a sprint... at which point we cross the line in reverse and he punches the air and pulls off to the side in elation thinking he had won... doh!!

User avatar
Xplora
Posts: 8272
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
Location: TL;DR

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:16 pm

Ouch. 3RD rule of Fight Club. Know when the fight is really over!

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:47 pm

vosadrian wrote:I suspect any dropping in standard is just seasonal. People off form, less competition for entry, colder temps for slower racing. Actually another difference is there are no longer B prestige and Hubbard. Is it possible that the old B Prestige riders are now riding in A pretender and as a result the B pace is not as fast as it used to be? That may have thrown out my expectations as I have not raced there since the older system.
I wish I had started this years ago. I've been out riding in years ago at West Head and had the race bunches shoot past me and I've just though "Meh". A work colleague tried for years to get me to come out with LACC when I used to live in Marsfield, and was riding around on my Hybrid bike on social rides. The same person gave me his old damaged steel race frame which I had repaired and restored before I built it up into something decent.

But I digress, I don't know what the Old system was, but NPWS limits the total number of riders to 140, with a max per bunch of 20. That means 7 bunches, sliced and diced however MWCC sees fit. When they did the recent Women's Race, I was actually entered in B but had to withdraw as I was sick. On that day, they ran A, A Pretender, B x 2, C Prestige, then Women's A and Women's B. There was no C Hubbard or D Grade.

I'm going to try and make it a regular fixture as I really liked the course. I don't mind trying things, working with other club mates and attacking. Sure, these things have been done before, so older riders can probably defend, but there's also plenty new to racing like me who don't mind a bit of pain and suffering even if it doesn't work.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

User avatar
toolonglegs
Posts: 15463
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:24 am

Aussiebullet wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:There's always pain :-) ... Was playing the "one more lap" mind games... Didn't help that loud speaker in the lead follow car was calling out one lap to go when we still had 3 :lol:
You won't get fat if you come here to race ;-) ... Come over on an international license and you will be able to race a minimum of FFC pass open... Plenty of weekly 120-160 km races to chose from if you jump in with the FFC 2/3/J's.
Me I am dropping down the grades a bit. Cat 4 FSGT at the moment... But that was hard enough!. No way I would even bother turning up for a Cat 3 race :-(

Sounds like it stirred the fire in your belly, really good to hear. It wasn't that long ago you were racing every other week and from memory they were really long and brutal races, also from memory you had an issue with your back/hamstrings? Is that the reason you never regained that high level of fitness?

Funny you mentioned travelling to Europe, I'm only 7-8 weeks away from leaving my job and taking 2-3 years off work to enjoy some of the things I have put aside for so long and traveling to race in Europe is one of the things on my bucket list that may or may not get ticked off the list this time around. The racing you describe is like a dream compared to what I have here (1 or 2 handicaps p/mth) it's really pathetic, have dusted off the MTB and been tuning my decending skills to add some more races to my season.
It was back in 2010... Finally got up to Cat1 but my back was killing me. 1 year off and never got back to that level... Like to think I could back there as the power is still pretty good under certain conditions ... But I have a lot of trouble keeping the weight off. Getting on a bit now too... But I have been addicted for a looong time so I will keep racing at what ever level possible :-)
We were camping last night pretty close to home, driving back we drove through a circuit where the youngins where warming up for a Cat1 FFC race... BIG numbers. There is loads of events on at the moment with the Tour de l'Ain in the area... I was hoping to race the 4 days cyclosportive but no chance at the mo!.
I know a few guys who come over and race for short periods on CA international licenses but the are really expensive. You can get day licenses for FFC races... ;-)

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby vosadrian » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:50 am

queequeg wrote:I'm going to try and make it a regular fixture as I really liked the course. I don't mind trying things, working with other club mates and attacking. Sure, these things have been done before, so older riders can probably defend, but there's also plenty new to racing like me who don't mind a bit of pain and suffering even if it doesn't work.
I have to say that I think I had better results when I first started racing. I did not know many people, I was naive, and I was not known. I chased everything and was always in with a chance and always ruined myself, so mostly I I picked up a place but got beaten by someone fresher for first. Later I tried to get "smarter" and save myself for the winning move and work with others, and all that succeeded in doing was missing the winning move and cursing myself later. Watching some of the newer guys get success in the club by doing what the seasoned guys think should not work has reminded me that simply burying yourself and trying anything was more fun.

User avatar
jules21
Posts: 10555
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby jules21 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:25 am

vosadrian wrote:I have to say that I think I had better results when I first started racing. I did not know many people, I was naive, and I was not known. I chased everything and was always in with a chance and always ruined myself, so mostly I I picked up a place but got beaten by someone fresher for first. Later I tried to get "smarter" and save myself for the winning move and work with others, and all that succeeded in doing was missing the winning move and cursing myself later. Watching some of the newer guys get success in the club by doing what the seasoned guys think should not work has reminded me that simply burying yourself and trying anything was more fun.
who dares wins. there is certainly value in using judgment about when to expend energy, but there's also a limit. I've found that generally my best results are associated with a lot of suffering. you don't win by sitting on for the whole race, unless you're a sprinter.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:50 am

jules21 wrote:
vosadrian wrote:I have to say that I think I had better results when I first started racing. I did not know many people, I was naive, and I was not known. I chased everything and was always in with a chance and always ruined myself, so mostly I I picked up a place but got beaten by someone fresher for first. Later I tried to get "smarter" and save myself for the winning move and work with others, and all that succeeded in doing was missing the winning move and cursing myself later. Watching some of the newer guys get success in the club by doing what the seasoned guys think should not work has reminded me that simply burying yourself and trying anything was more fun.
who dares wins. there is certainly value in using judgment about when to expend energy, but there's also a limit. I've found that generally my best results are associated with a lot of suffering. you don't win by sitting on for the whole race, unless you're a sprinter.
I went solo off the front of the Cervelo Masters at Hez lasting, absolutely buried myself for the last three laps. Were it not for the headwind on the last lap I would have had it in the bag. Riding home last night on the M2 was exactly the same as that last lap, struggling to even each 27km/h.

I have had massive wins off solo breaks in both C and B grade, and I have been in breakaways to get wins and placings. My preference is to avoid a bunch sprint if there is an opportunity to do so. 3rd in a breakaway stills beats the sprinters in the bunch :-)
I am never going to be pro cyclist. It is entirely about testing my personal limits, and I don't get to do that sitting in a Bunch. My first A Grade race at Landsdowne was great. No easy wins there, but I stayed with the moves and finished strong. Looking forward more of it!
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby vosadrian » Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:30 am

jules21 wrote: who dares wins. there is certainly value in using judgment about when to expend energy, but there's also a limit. I've found that generally my best results are associated with a lot of suffering. you don't win by sitting on for the whole race, unless you're a sprinter.
I can sprint, but not well enough to go out in the wind early and go past everyone else like some can. If I have good position and a good wheel to get me 300m out in good position out of the wind, I can sprint well enough to kick to 60kph and hold it to the line and take a win, but so can 10 other people. For me it was a game of luck unless you know the other sprinters well enough to grab the right wheel or have others working with you. I found that approach more frustrating. If you make a wrong decision and leave it too late you end up over the line with some in the tank and frustrated. If you give it your all and are totally done but miss a result, at least you gave it all you had.

Anyway guys, I am just an injury frustrated rider who is trying to re-live better times, so sorry for clogging up the thread. At least reminiscing through other's races gets my heart rate up!!

User avatar
Xplora
Posts: 8272
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
Location: TL;DR

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:08 pm

Are the kids old enough to race Adrian? Might be some opportunities in the near future for you to do some helicopter parenting

cerb
Posts: 571
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:37 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby cerb » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:17 pm

Adrian - race tactics are all part of racing! Personally, I like to hear them all whether it is recent or not!

Sounds like I'm kind of like you in terms of a sprint - I can get myself in the top 5-10 regularly but getting on the podium requires something special to transpire.

However, differring from you, I struggle in a break as I can't keep up the high power output for long enough... I get a lot of my enjoyment out of the tactics in the final 5min+3laps though - holding position, following wheels, checking out who looks dangerous and getting ready to jump when someone goes. When I miss a result, its my tactics that need more work!

The advantage of going out and raggedly chasing everything as well as constantly getting in the break is that your fitness constantly improves. I know a few guys who ride like that and last year rode themself into some really good fitness and form.

User avatar
toolonglegs
Posts: 15463
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Race Report Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:32 pm

I like winning from anywhere... But nothing beats for me being all alone in the photo :-) .
Next year maybe... Race season is nearly over here, TT time ( which I would normally look forward to ) ... Have two club races in NZ possible at the end of the year too ;)

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:04 pm

toolonglegs wrote:I like winning from anywhere... But nothing beats for me being all alone in the photo :-) .
Me Too...

http://youtu.be/3ChAlNlsoKo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But when you do that, you get sent up a grade!
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

User avatar
toolonglegs
Posts: 15463
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:28 pm

queequeg wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:I like winning from anywhere... But nothing beats for me being all alone in the photo :-) .
Me Too...

http://youtu.be/3ChAlNlsoKo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But when you do that, you get sent up a grade!
Not here ... you get up to 3 wins before being sent up a grade ( if there is more than 30 in the race ). Everything here is on points and the license gives you the grade you must ride in no matter where in the country you are. No sandbagging or burglars.

But if you are a new then you only get one win and then up... I found that out when I first moved here.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:37 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
queequeg wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:I like winning from anywhere... But nothing beats for me being all alone in the photo :-) .
Me Too...

http://youtu.be/3ChAlNlsoKo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But when you do that, you get sent up a grade!
Not here ... you get up to 3 wins before being sent up a grade ( if there is more than 30 in the race ). Everything here is on points and the license gives you the grade you must ride in no matter where in the country you are. No sandbagging or burglars.

But if you are a new then you only get one win and then up... I found that out when I first moved here.
That was my 3rd race after placing 2nd in D Grade and getting sent up to C Grade where I finished with a 52 rider bunch, followed by the win above where I soloed for 40min, and got sent up to B.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

User avatar
toolonglegs
Posts: 15463
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:42 pm

Yeah, fair enough I would say... if a newbie soloed for that long here in Cat 3 ( where you must start unless over 50 ) to take the win they would automatically go up even if it was their first race.

User avatar
Strawburger
Posts: 1729
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:19 pm
Location: Dulwich Hill, Sydney

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Strawburger » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:02 pm

Aussiebullet wrote:
Funny you mentioned travelling to Europe, I'm only 7-8 weeks away from leaving my job and taking 2-3 years off work to enjoy some of the things I have put aside for so long and traveling to race in Europe is one of the things on my bucket list that may or may not get ticked off the list this time around. The racing you describe is like a dream compared to what I have here (1 or 2 handicaps p/mth) it's really pathetic, have dusted off the MTB and been tuning my decending skills to add some more races to my season.
Don't leave me, you're the only one I know and talk to in the big races :(

All the best, live the dream... I'm jealous! 8)
n=10 (2013 & 2004 roads,2010 track,2x 2009 foldups,1990 hybrid,1992 trainer,2007 rental,1970's step through,1980's zeus)

vosadrian
Posts: 1176
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby vosadrian » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:30 am

cerb wrote:Adrian - race tactics are all part of racing! Personally, I like to hear them all whether it is recent or not!

Sounds like I'm kind of like you in terms of a sprint - I can get myself in the top 5-10 regularly but getting on the podium requires something special to transpire.

However, differring from you, I struggle in a break as I can't keep up the high power output for long enough... I get a lot of my enjoyment out of the tactics in the final 5min+3laps though - holding position, following wheels, checking out who looks dangerous and getting ready to jump when someone goes. When I miss a result, its my tactics that need more work!

The advantage of going out and raggedly chasing everything as well as constantly getting in the break is that your fitness constantly improves. I know a few guys who ride like that and last year rode themself into some really good fitness and form.
I am a bit of an all rounder cerb... jack of all trades, master of nothing! I do enjoy the last 5 minutes of a race, and I enjoy when I get sprint tactics right as much as a solo break. But I am most proud of solo breaks... just because I left everything out there and it came off. Mostly with sprints I could do it again 5 minutes later.

Row-D
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 am

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Row-D » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:44 am

It's gone a bit quiet in this thread so I though I'd put in my own report from Waratahs at Eastern Creek on Sunday.

I did my usual warmup, riding out from Concord with the club but after signing on and stripping off leg warmers, gillet etc I was absolutely freezing on the start line. Soon warmed up once the racing started though with a few early attacks causing some surges in the bunch. All the early moves were quickly covered with the one rider from The Odd Spoke racing team particularly closely marked. About 20 minutes in I attacked through the corner leading up to the back straight and got a gap pretty quickly. I wasn't planning on soloing for the next 40 minutes so rode a tempo that kept me a little way off the front of the bunch hoping somebody would bridge across. After almost 2 laps with nobody joining me I eased up and went back into the bunch just as the bell went for the prime.

There was one obvious sprinter in the group. You know the guy. Stocky build, big legs, deep carbon rims...Anyway, I don't make a habit of contesting the primes but I was sitting just on the sprinter's wheel as we came around the last corner leading into the finish straight. A couple of guys jumped out of the corner and the sprinter went with them taking me along too.

Recalling trek52's advice from a couple of weeks ago (no it wasn't him in the race)
trek52 wrote:If I am doing 1500w at 65kmh how do they think they are going to get past !!! Always get in front, kick early, kick hard and hold on !!!!
I jumped right with about 250 meters to go. Unfortunately, just as I went I saw the sprinter go too out of the corner of my eye. My only hope being that he had gone left so he wouldn't be able to immediately bridge to me. With about 50 meters to go I could hear that he was onto my wheel but I kept going as hard as I could only for him to come around me right on the line!
I heard a rumour later that immediately after the prime sprint the sprinter threw up and pulled out of the race but I have no idea how true that is :shock:

The race settled back into a series of unsuccessful attacks with Odd Spoke still closely marked. With 20 minutes to go he rolled up next to a mate and had a quick chat. A couple of seconds later the mate attacked with Odd Spoke easing up on the front and letting the gap go a bit. A couple of riders reacted taking the rest of the bunch across. I knew Odd Spoke would attack again as soon as his mate was brought back. I find it's often easier to attack first and let others come to you rather than trying to bridge to a move that has already gone, so as soon as the mate was brought back I went hard. As expected Odd Spoke came straight across to me and we had the gap we'd been looking for all race.

He was super strong, pulling huge turns and at times it was all I could do to hold his wheel but took my turns when he needed me to and we held the gap for a couple of laps before one more rider bridged across to us. I was happy to have more help with the break but as it turned out the new guy had totally cooked himself bridging across and had absolutely nothing to contribute. Odd Spoke and I kept swapping off with the new guy hanging on the back and we managed to stretch the gap a bit (it no doubt helped that I had 5 club mates back in the bunch).

I was starting to really suffer but the bell rang a lap sooner than I expected which was a huge relief. By then the new guy had already made it clear that he would take 3rd. I didn't think I had enough left to really contest a sprint and given how much work Odd Spoke had done I wouldn't begrudge him the win. We had made no agreement though and were going to race to the end. With half a lap to go, as I pulled a turn, Odd Spoke attacked and I just didn't have enough left to go with him. He held a gap of about 50-100 meters for the rest of the lap and I rolled in for second.

Then all I had to do was ride the 25kms back home :(

Bluejay87
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 10:46 pm

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Bluejay87 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:47 am

Good write up. What grade?

User avatar
jules21
Posts: 10555
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:14 pm
Location: deep in the pain cave

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby jules21 » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:23 am

nice one Row-D. great result!

I raced on Sunday at Main Ridge on the Mornington Peninsula. great little course they've got there, 4 x 14km of punchy climbs. I don't have great form at the moment so was happy to hang on to B grade bunch, but was uncompetitive in the final uphill push for the line.

User avatar
queequeg
Posts: 6479
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am

Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:28 pm

Bluejay87 wrote:Good write up. What grade?
My guess would be A Grade, and Odd Spoke was Andrew Finlayson. He is a machine!

http://youtu.be/LuOSI1B3waA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

Row-D
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 am

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Row-D » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:43 pm

queequeg wrote:My guess would be A Grade, and Odd Spoke was Andrew Finlayson. He is a machine!
Yes it was A grade and yes he is a machine!

User avatar
Xplora
Posts: 8272
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:33 am
Location: TL;DR

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:21 pm

Well done Row-D, Finno is an absolute weapon in the break, great job to pick up second!

trek52
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:49 pm

Re: Race Report Thread

Postby trek52 » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:22 am

Well done mate sound like an excellent ride and glad you stuck it to the sprinter, wonder who it was ?

I dont really know andrew that won but I do know he is going pretty well at the moment, nothing better than the 30 year old blokes coming out to race masters :( if you stayed with him you are going really well. the bloke that came across is Trent Butler, absolute top bloke. Can hurt himself as much as anyone and he is from the old school of respect so I can see why he said he was happy to take 3rd.

I went down to Goulburn on the weekend for my first race back at open level, Div 2 5 got away include my team mate so I had to let it go but clean the bunch up for 6th so all in all it was a good day back.

Looking forward to Specalized cup and the summer now, I am in the best shape I have been in since I gave NRS level away in 2002 so hopefully a good summer is comming :)

Say hi out there mate...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users