Race Report Thread

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Xplora
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:40 am

Marconi A grade Dragway hockey stick track

I raced Sunday here and achieved very little so I decided to sit in the entire race, helping with a few moves on the front so I didn't look like a complete bludger. The race was extremely negative, and attacking riders got annoyed but my plan worked, 10 minutes to go I am surrounded by the top sprinters 5 wheels back. I am feeling pretty good too, but the surges were getting harder, and I usually get torn apart in the late push. Not today though, I find trek52's wheel and follow his moves. The fight for the wheels is really challenging, everyone is hauling arse out there so close.... Bell lap, I am still in the hunt as we go down the drag strip, around the bottom corner and it's on.

This moment might destroy my racing style. The pack surges and then the kick. I am on the wall but get boxed in about 150m out, almost sat up but push for a top 10. I hadn't kicked hard yet and managed a very solid peak power... I can see the gym work is paying off, and it was lack of experience that got me today.... I think it might be time to stop attacking and start sprinting.

Two team mates finished top 5...bodes very well for the future.

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Derny Driver
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Derny Driver » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:21 am

Everyone can sprint Leigh, if you practice it.
Good job!
What team are you in?

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Xplora
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:57 am

It's not the sprint, it's the bike handling while trying to go to warp speed amongst the bunch that needs work for me :lol:
NWSCC I think our logo is my avatar?

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Cossie Phil » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:52 pm

Need some time on the boards Leigh;)
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gistane
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby gistane » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:51 pm

Xplora wrote:It's not the sprint, it's the bike handling while trying to go to warp speed amongst the bunch that needs work for me :lol:
90% of the sprint is all about the positioning and if you can get the right wheel and manage to stay safe and not get boxed in and most importantly go at the right time you can do quite well.

I find at the Dragway people go from so far out that once you get to the 200 - 150 to go people have already blown up and start heading backwards and that's the point that its time to hit the gas.

I will be back up to A grade soon. Had a good solid effort last night in B grade and won the sprint. Only back on the bike for 6 weeks after 3 years off so doing quite well considering that I don't have alot of base in my legs and only getting stronger. I dont have a power meter but peaked at only 61.9km/hr in the sprint so that's what I need to work on to get that top end speed back up there as its still low for myself. Once I get that up higher and hit it at the right time then I should go alot better.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:41 am

Cossie Phil wrote:Need some time on the boards Leigh;)
That's a project for a bit later. But definitely not forgotten!

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby trek52 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:27 am

Monday Marconi A Grade,

Well what a awful night, lets say I spent a bit of time before and after the race on the toilet !!! I felt horrible, could hardly do a turn and when I went to sprint I just went backwards :(

Xplora, you are right mate, the racing is becoming very negative out there. To be honest, it is the new circuit. Now before I say this let me preface this with, I love what Brad and Marconi do out there. I have raced thanks to the Hooker family for 20+ years all the way back to Wetherill Park days (best circuit ever) but what is happening is that hockey stick is just to easy to sit on and at the same time to hard to get away. So people like me Nick, Cru etc etc are not even trying to get away as it is impossible due to the pace of the bunch so it is just easier to shut things down if they get dangerous and wait for the finish. If 50 blokes including young kids can finish an A grade race then something is wrong, especially when you look at the fact there are some really good riders in the field. But when there is no corners and no accelerations it is like a big track race. My NP for the middle 30 min of the race was 235w.......I can do that riding to work. I am sure people will say if it is easy then attack, dont worry I have tried and you just cant go anywhere........Plus those 2 MTB dudes just shut everything down.
In saying all this, it is good for the sport, these days people want to finish A grade and lets be honest most people dont really want to hurt themselves so the fields we are getting are so much bigger than the past, so obviously its working.
Anyway I will keep turning up but that is my theory as to why it is negative, me Nick and Ty were talking about i during the race and this is what we came up with.....

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby vosadrian » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:41 am

I agree with you Trek52. I mentioned previously how surprised I have been in how low my power outputs have been for races. Also, I came back to racing recently and started in C and then back to B. I am not noticing much difference in the effort required between those two grades. Sitting out of the wind in the bunch in B is not much more difficult than C. I am sure I could also hide in the bunch in A and finish the race without too much more effort. If you get the corners sorted you can coast through them over 40 and little effort required on exit to accelerate 5-10kph more to stay with the bunch... and once in the bunch 40,45,50 feel similar out of the wind.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby jules21 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:48 am

solid hitout at HCC B gr. crit at the Teardrop last night.

Image

40.6 km/h average. failing to maintain position at the front of the bunch made it harder than it should have been, with big efforts required to build speed out of the bottom corner when the back of the bunch comes to a virtual standstill. average power of 261w but normalised power of 343 over 35 mins. of racing.

I've still got some more work to do to be competitive there.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby cerb » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:14 am

That hurts Jules! Good stuff!

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby gistane » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:13 pm

trek52 wrote:Monday Marconi A Grade,



Xplora, you are right mate, the racing is becoming very negative out there. To be honest, it is the new circuit.
Lets hope Brad gets the go ahead so we can use the old section up the hill and down to the roundabout like we used to race on.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:14 am

It's good to shake it up, I got bored on the normal hill course, and have been enjoying the flowing corners a lot... I hope we can get the top of the hockey stick combined with the hill some weeks. Anything to break it up!

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:05 pm

Xplora wrote:It's good to shake it up, I got bored on the normal hill course, and have been enjoying the flowing corners a lot... I hope we can get the top of the hockey stick combined with the hill some weeks. Anything to break it up!
I noted from the LACC page for yesterday's Armory Crit, only 9 people showed up for A Grade.
Thursday is a tricky day for me, and I am yet to get out there, but 9 seems pretty low. Either the track is tough and it scares people off, or it is just a bad day for everyone?
I've done the MWCC HART track once in a Friday and that was brutal, for two reasons. Two nasty tight turns, one of which is followed by sharp short climb, and secondly because A Elite/A Club is run as a handicap, so the first half of the race is spent in the box trying to stop the Elite guys catching up, and when they do you have to dig even deeper to stop them going off the front.

Hopefully Marconi gets the hill back in the course. I find the hockey stick is fast, but predictable. It's a pure sprinters course.
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby gistane » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:16 pm

vosadrian wrote:I agree with you Trek52. I mentioned previously how surprised I have been in how low my power outputs have been for races. Also, I came back to racing recently and started in C and then back to B. I am not noticing much difference in the effort required between those two grades. Sitting out of the wind in the bunch in B is not much more difficult than C. I am sure I could also hide in the bunch in A and finish the race without too much more effort. If you get the corners sorted you can coast through them over 40 and little effort required on exit to accelerate 5-10kph more to stay with the bunch... and once in the bunch 40,45,50 feel similar out of the wind.
This is pretty much the issue though. A race is only as hard as you make it and too many riders just want to sit there and ride with the bunch and not do anything about it. So yeah the course does suit sprinters because that's how people are riding it. How do you fix it? Change the way you ride the race and dont just be a sit in the bunch rider.

There have been in some of the grades breakaways that have worked and they have stayed away on the course so its not entirely true that you can not break away (B grade 3 weeks ago had a group get away and stay away). A grade is always a tough one though because depending on who comes out determines peoples mentality on how they will ride that race. That whole mental game oh X rider is here they are going to win so I will not do anything.

If you can not sprint but you are strong then look at the riders in your race and source out others who are strong and work together and change the race up and attack and try and get a break. If you get the right combination of guys you will get the break and stay away because everyone else will be looking at others to do the chasing and then noone will chase. (Oh please don't do this though if you are in my race cause I like to sprint at the end haha :-))

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Xplora » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:41 pm

Agree Matt, it's only as hard as you make it. A grade is a little worse because the horsepower to overcome the bunch is enormous and you tend to be known if you have legs in A. You can sneak thru in C and sometimes B.

It doesn't help when genuine attackers like Milostic don't show up. But that's racing. I am enjoying being competitive. And it's got to be fun.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby vosadrian » Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:43 pm

Gistane, if you are who I think you are, I think we were in a break together the week before the last race. You and a couple of mates went off the front and I was one of 4 NWSCC guys who bridged across about 20 minutes before the end. 7 strong riders out lapping at around 43kph working fairly well, and we lasted 2-3 laps. I think it was just you and me left at the end and I knew I could not maintain the 43kph pace for another 10 minutes doing 50% turns and the gap was closing anyway so I pulled the pin. I thought that was a pretty good effort at getting away, yet it was shut down (probably because it was a break with 4 NWSCC riders in club kit in it!!). I don't disagree with you about mixing it up and trying for something, but with that course, I think it really suits the chasing bunch, so the chances of getting away have more to do with bunch motivation than the efforts of the breakaway. I was pretty impressed when this week's early break got out for half an hour. Kudos to those guys!

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby gistane » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:00 pm

vosadrian wrote:Gistane, if you are who I think you are, I think we were in a break together the week before the last race. You and a couple of mates went off the front and I was one of 4 NWSCC guys who bridged across about 20 minutes before the end. 7 strong riders out lapping at around 43kph working fairly well, and we lasted 2-3 laps. I think it was just you and me left at the end and I knew I could not maintain the 43kph pace for another 10 minutes doing 50% turns and the gap was closing anyway so I pulled the pin. I thought that was a pretty good effort at getting away, yet it was shut down (probably because it was a break with 4 NWSCC riders in club kit in it!!). I don't disagree with you about mixing it up and trying for something, but with that course, I think it really suits the chasing bunch, so the chances of getting away have more to do with bunch motivation than the efforts of the breakaway. I was pretty impressed when this week's early break got out for half an hour. Kudos to those guys!

I was in that break. I am in Marconi and was there with another Marconi guy. I ended up 2nd in that race. We did work fairly well with that break until people started to not take turns as we actually had the right mix of riders to stay away.

The guys who went from the start on Tuesday night was a good effort and thats what we need to see more of. If a couple more strong riders went with them from the start it was game over for the rest of us. When you think about after that 30mins and the group came back together I do not actually recall any other break or attempt to break away

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby gistane » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:07 pm

Xplora wrote:Agree Matt, it's only as hard as you make it. A grade is a little worse because the horsepower to overcome the bunch is enormous and you tend to be known if you have legs in A. You can sneak thru in C and sometimes B.

It doesn't help when genuine attackers like Milostic don't show up. But that's racing. I am enjoying being competitive. And it's got to be fun.
The one benefit the circuit has is no one has an excuse for not getting to practice their sprinting :-).

Most criterium type circuits over summer periods are generally run on short fast circuits and are sprinters delights. Winter time was always the time for the strong riders on the nice long courses with hills or punishing dead roads where they would just spit out the sprinters and only the tough men would remain. Our issue in Sydney is over winter time we lack the good road courses that suit these riders so most courses are unfortunately run on something that favours sprinters.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Bluejay87 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:28 pm

queequeg wrote:
I noted from the LACC page for yesterday's Armory Crit, only 9 people showed up for A Grade.
Thursday is a tricky day for me, and I am yet to get out there, but 9 seems pretty low. Either the track is tough and it scares people off, or it is just a bad day for everyone?
That is actually more than double the last race when there was 4 in A grade. The race has suffered from a lack of promotion and bad weather. Trying to turn the former around and it seemed to work last night with a very nice turn out.

It's a great course and the most fun I've had in a crit. Definitely try to make it out before it ends this seadon- only a few left!

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:36 pm

Bluejay87 wrote: That is actually more than double the last race when there was 4 in A grade. The race has suffered from a lack of promotion and bad weather. Trying to turn the former around and it seemed to work last night with a very nice turn out.

It's a great course and the most fun I've had in a crit. Definitely try to make it out before it ends this seadon- only a few left!
Thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can manage next week.
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby ft_critical » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:46 pm

Well, feeling guilty, I read your reports but don’t post any myself, selfish. I will try to post some this year...

West Head Road Race, A Grade, ~38kmh, ~hot!

The ‘new’ course is 1300m of climbing over ~70km; there are 10 hills each lap (3 laps) which are kind of 150 to 300m long and can be steep; there are two hotdog corners on each lap. The finish is an uphill drag at ~3%. The flow of the race is always the same - except for the Elite grade -: smash the hills and roll the flats at an annoying slow pace. Though many try, breaking away is virtually impossible.

Around 25 signed on; race plan = snivel. Snivelling might seem easy but there is an art to it. Some of the finer points required are: how to steal someone else’s wheel – I generally extend my knee and roll back and across. Experienced track riders won’t budge but most everyone else will. This skill is best employed when you accidently get caught in a line of riders rolling to the front and need to bail out to the return line. I could go on…

So, I effectively sat in last place for 2.5 laps. What I noticed was that there were a number of riders who were struggling on the hills and would not be able to compete towards the end. I found the pace very comfortable and took to talking to other riders to ease the boredom of sitting at the back. My club had quite a few riders in the bunch and our best rider spent a half a lap away with another rider. Impressive, if pointless; well good training I guess.

Okay, so snivelling wasn’t the only plan, there was another 1.5 plans in play. There is a false flat after Salvation Loop Track followed by a hill to Waratah Track. Who can explain why, but this suits my limited abilities. Coogan has not classified this ability unfortunately, only I know it exists. Attacking here netted me second years ago so I have a soft spot in my heart for the location. From the false flat we could see another bunch ahead all across the road. We all know what mayhem ensues when you pass another bunch. At least 4 other riders realised this too and the pace was on. I tacked on, but as soon as they passed the bunch they shut down, throwing away the split they had on the rest of A Grade. This will not do, sniveller or not, we must push on… I took the lead and drove, but then as we approached the start finish there were riders finishing, finished riders on the road – bedlam and dangerous bedlam. Everyone was together again, tucked in behind me on the approach to the steep hill with the turnaround on top of it. I have been smoked twice trying to smash the field up this hill, so, I soft pedalled until someone came through, knee out… second wheel, nice, sniveller extraordinare. There was a bit of attacking up the hill as usual but I managed to hold onto fourth wheel around the dogleg turn.

The West Head course is a series of smashing hill climbs as I have said. The effect of this is to effectively burn out a lot of people’s legs. This means that if you are a sniveller or sprinter you really have no idea who is a good wheel? Yet, you can’t lead it out from the turn, that never, ever works. You need to come from fourth to eighth back. So it was that I was stuck behind a donkey, two actually. A line of riders carrying speed came through on my right and neither of my wheels moved. They were burned out. I jumped left around them but was now 8 wheels back on the winning move. My FTP unders/overs training paid off and I managed to drag back all but three riders to come 4th. I think I always come 4th.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:32 pm

nice work FT and great report. that knee out technique thing is something I must think about.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby ft_critical » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:24 pm

jules21 wrote:nice work FT and great report. that knee out technique thing is something I must think about.
Thanks Jules. It surprises me still that riders are unused to other riders touching them (I get how that sounds, but you know what I mean)

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Race Report Thread

Postby queequeg » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:45 pm

Nice report FT. Remarkably similar to my experience there last month, taking out 1st in A Pretender. It's like three is only one script. Most riders can't climb so they burn out.
I reckon the ideal spot on the last turn is 5th wheel. As long as you don't get blocked in it is almost a certainty that the lead riders will die before the line.
I'm interested in what happened with the Primes. Did anyone bother? Were they at the start/finish, or somewhere more interesting like the top of the wall?
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby jules21 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:46 pm

you didn't say anything about touching them ;)

so you prod them in the thigh with your knee while alongside?

I'm not averse to touching riders - a bit of handlebar banging is no big deal and I will touch people on the shoulder when I need space ahead of me to let them know I'm there. I once stiff-armed someone who was coming across a bit too quickly and I had to stop him!

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