Race Report Thread

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toolonglegs
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Race Report Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Mon May 07, 2012 5:50 am

Prologue done... Didn't go to plan in so much as I didn't do anywhere near as well as I wanted. A lot to learn!.
Warm up was no where near sufficient and my pacing was terrible.
Was a very tricky first km or so with lots of corners and not the cleanest of roads... Gravelly!.
I was 8th off out of 100... Finished in 7:13 with an av of 41.5kmph. The winner was 25 secs faster!.
4th in my categories and 30th overall .
I made heaps of mistakes... Lack of oxygen to the brain.
Oh well tomorrow will be fun... Apparently there are some 12% climbs involved :-( .
Oh well good training!.
Oh and the accommodation is well classy ... If your into army barracks and leaking radiators!.

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Re: Race Report Thread Warratah Vets 6 May 2012 D Grade

Postby Sydguy » Mon May 07, 2012 6:22 am

Warratah Vets Eastern Creek D Grade 6 May 2012

My hands froze (literally) on the 30km ride out to EC, it was 6 degrees. The fog was turning into water on my helmet and dripping its spine chilling liquid onto my face/head. As I type this today my fingers are sore, frostbite will do that.

The race was OK, I ended up coming second. B grade (or was it A Grade?) had 92 riders who started to overtake D Grade on D Grades final lap towards the finish. I was in front of D Grade and had done a lot more than my fair share at the front, I kept left, kept going hard and was just piped at the line by a guy who was on my wheel.

Usual people complain that we were in the higher grade, but am I supposed to sit up and roll over the line? If one of the complainers were on the front and I was boxed in by the higher grade would they take the 2 place on offer?
I was tempted not to claim it because I knew it was a messy win, if I had not been out the front for 1/3 of the race working then I would not of claimed it. But if your up the front working hard and there is a crash, or a grade passing, or some event to stop the race your in the best position.

I was overtaking riders in the higher grade in the final sprint/lead up to sprint. One of the haters was using a video camera and despite being a vocal critic could not find any footage of me or the winner using the higher grade.. because there was none. Felt sorry for a few guys who did work and were boxed in by the higer grade.

The higher grades need to be wary of lower grades, any grade, who are on their final lap. Something we yelled to them. With that many riders on the track at once, 260, there was always going to be issues.

Few weeks ago at Lansdownn same scenario, C overtakes D and slows down, D going into final lap lifts the pace... chaos ensues. So I wheeled off the track. This time I thought no way did I freeze half to death to just pike.

An alternative might be to run an extra lap - but that would be a tough call for the comissars. So I have $100 to spend at Ashfield Cycles and very sore fingers. Gloves? lol

JM

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby trek52 » Mon May 07, 2012 7:08 am

Well Done Sydguy, was bloody cold.

I was in A grade I think it was us on the finish, were you in a lidcombe jersey up the inside (bit of a larger man).

They need to warn grades on the top corner, we had no idea it was a finsh. They should have someone with a yellow flag if there is a finish approaching, we would have moved over for sure.I heard guys call out but it was to late.

I came 2nd in Agrade, Liam hit us on the last lap, we hesitated and he was gone :( Still happy with my sprint. Pretty easy race to be honest, but so dangerous, so many guys thinking they can sprint etc.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby foo on patrol » Mon May 07, 2012 7:53 am

You will always have the whingers Sydguy. :wink:

A good day for both you and Trek52. 8)

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby foo on patrol » Mon May 07, 2012 7:56 am

Do they give you rations to TLL? :lol:

You have to remember, how long you were out of the scene TLL. :wink:

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Sydguy » Mon May 07, 2012 8:10 am

I was in an LACC jersey going down the inside of the final turn/straight, the large guy was on my wheel until he kicked before the line to take it.

It was a messy finish, I generally like to play around at the back for 2 laps, then go to the front for a few laps then get out of the way for the sprint.

But I was feeling good, or probably too cold to feel the pain, so I put the hammer down on the final bit and guess it was hard to go around with a higher grade whizzing past.

There were some awesome rides by the higher grades, one guy got right away in B grade, he finished so far in front I initially thought he was completely dropped until there was cheer for his finish. Super riding, he was breathing like a race horse at the end. Tough conditions to race in.

JM

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Mon May 07, 2012 9:53 am

Nice work Sydguy. D grade at SOP on Saturday ended up with C grade and D grade locked together for D grade's last lap. In the past, when that has happened, we've been given an extra lap and the other grade is told to neutralise. Unfortunately there was no leadership on the road to do this and the comms didn't either, so I just sat up and let them all go. I wasn't at the front of the pack, so I wasn't going to win and there's no use playing silly buggers.

Aside from the finish, which wasn't really an issue, the race was wonderful. D grade for the past two outings has been averaging 38kph and everyone has been getting dropped. This time the fast guys were put up to C (where one of them almost won) and D grade went back to 35kph where it belongs. The pack stayed together, there were surges and breaks that were shut down - all textbook stuff. A mate of mine was there in his first crit. and he had a ball. It was what graded racing should be like.

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Re: Race Report Thread Warratah Vets 6 May 2012 D Grade

Postby biker jk » Mon May 07, 2012 11:00 am

Sydguy wrote:Warratah Vets Eastern Creek D Grade 6 May 2012

My hands froze (literally) on the 30km ride out to EC, it was 6 degrees. The fog was turning into water on my helmet and dripping its spine chilling liquid onto my face/head. As I type this today my fingers are sore, frostbite will do that.

The race was OK, I ended up coming second. B grade (or was it A Grade?) had 92 riders who started to overtake D Grade on D Grades final lap towards the finish. I was in front of D Grade and had done a lot more than my fair share at the front, I kept left, kept going hard and was just piped at the line by a guy who was on my wheel.

Usual people complain that we were in the higher grade, but am I supposed to sit up and roll over the line? If one of the complainers were on the front and I was boxed in by the higher grade would they take the 2 place on offer?
I was tempted not to claim it because I knew it was a messy win, if I had not been out the front for 1/3 of the race working then I would not of claimed it. But if your up the front working hard and there is a crash, or a grade passing, or some event to stop the race your in the best position.

I was overtaking riders in the higher grade in the final sprint/lead up to sprint. One of the haters was using a video camera and despite being a vocal critic could not find any footage of me or the winner using the higher grade.. because there was none. Felt sorry for a few guys who did work and were boxed in by the higer grade.

The higher grades need to be wary of lower grades, any grade, who are on their final lap. Something we yelled to them. With that many riders on the track at once, 260, there was always going to be issues.

Few weeks ago at Lansdownn same scenario, C overtakes D and slows down, D going into final lap lifts the pace... chaos ensues. So I wheeled off the track. This time I thought no way did I freeze half to death to just pike.

An alternative might be to run an extra lap - but that would be a tough call for the comissars. So I have $100 to spend at Ashfield Cycles and very sore fingers. Gloves? lol

JM
I suggest that calling the rider who protested against the very dodgy finish a "hater" is a bit over the top. You admit to using the higher grade as an opportunity to squeeze through and there were a number of riders in that race who felt that the finish was compromised as a result.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Beanzy » Mon May 07, 2012 11:22 am

The commisaires said at the start of the raced there is to be no hanging on to other grades and if they are passing let them pass. It is up to the commisaires if another lap is to be added. You mentioned what happen at Lansdowne a few weeks ago and now waratahs make the announcement above at each start. It is unfair on the other riders who cant get through the large bunch to contest a sprint. You say you felt sorry for them - of course you do - it is unfair. Basically - as you suggest - you pull up and the race is deemed neutral until the other grade passes. If you mention you are on last lap to passing grade, they may back off but from my experience they dont.
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby scotto » Mon May 07, 2012 11:44 am

Beanzy wrote:The commisaires said at the start of the raced there is to be no hanging on to other grades and if they are passing let them pass. It is up to the commisaires if another lap is to be added. You mentioned what happen at Lansdowne a few weeks ago and now waratahs make the announcement above at each start. It is unfair on the other riders who cant get through the large bunch to contest a sprint. You say you felt sorry for them - of course you do - it is unfair. Basically - as you suggest - you pull up and the race is deemed neutral until the other grade passes. If you mention you are on last lap to passing grade, they may back off but from my experience they dont.
good call. ive seen this happen a lot, and at eastern creeek the track is wide enough you can keep your speed up without gaining an advantage to a certain degree. at penrith ive copped it a bit, and you just keep to the other side of the track.... and yell like mad at the a grade bastards. !!

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby tiz1974 » Mon May 07, 2012 11:57 am

raced masters B grade at east cr, not the quickest race i have had out there , very cold, rode the 12kms from home,and wished i had booties !! we didnt even know there was one guy away , and one guy even took off from the last corner , for the priem, he thought he won it until the finish !! when we realised there was a guy 3 mins ahead ! two other guys got away, and no one would work on the front, so in the end we were racing for 4th !! i felt good, and had a sprint, and would have been in aphoto for 7th or8th !! i think the winner may well have been a burglar , or trained very hard for this race !! either way he wont be seen in B grade in the near future !

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Mon May 07, 2012 12:02 pm

sydguy, last time I raced at EC, I was in A grade and the same problem happened to D grade. While there was yelling to tell A grade to move over, the message didn't get to everyone. I think the problem is the size of the bunch.

Anyway regardless of what happened, whoever crossed the line first is the winner, as they have made the most of the situation
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Beanzy » Mon May 07, 2012 12:10 pm

Mike,

The commisaires warn that if another grade is passing then the slower grade must let them pass. It is just not fair for the front runners of the slower grade to keep passing through as it is not fair and you get a dradting benefit from the higher grade. Yeah it can happen and generally you have to suck eggs but its is a specific race rule from Waratahs recently.
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby ft_critical » Mon May 07, 2012 12:24 pm

trek52 wrote:Still happy with my sprint. Pretty easy race to be honest, but so dangerous, so many guys thinking they can sprint etc.
Nice work. That is twice you have beaten Mr. ES at EC I think. You must have a bit of a sprint background, it looks like everyone else was there at the end..., so you got away from some fast riders, again.

Any breaks?

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby rogan » Mon May 07, 2012 5:20 pm

Re the above...

The rule is go neutral and let the faster bunch pass EXCEPT where the lower grade is on their last lap. Obviously, if the Waratahs have some variation on this, then one should apply their rules when racing there.

I raced at Heffron for years every Saturday in the early 90s, and this problem rarely occurred - but the bunches were rarely above 20 riders per grade. I suspect the point about larger bunches is true. It sounds like the Waratahs are getting huge bunches, as were Marconi at WSID over summer. A large field with the pressure on can stretch out over 100m, which significantly increases the likelihood of interfering with another grade.

I wasn't at ECR on Sunday, so the below is not directed to that event, or to Waratahs specifically. But some common sense points:

1. Faster grades passing a lower grade should not just pass and sit up. This happens far too often, and it's selfish racing. A Grade or B Grade should be able to easily roll away from D Grade or lower. They also have the skills to stick to one side of the track and give a lower grade on their last lap some space.
2. The situation where there is a break off the front of the lower grade is particularly galling - the peloton effectively isn't allowed to chase the breakaway, as the higher grade sits between the bunch and the break. Conversely, where the higher grade passes the bunch and the break, but then slow up in front of the breakaway. What is the break meant to do? Hope the chasers respectfully go neutral till the higher grade decides to go again? Both these have happened in races I have been in during the past year.
3. The commissaires (if they are paying attention) can see grades coming together, and should ring or not ring the bell accordingly.
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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Nikolai » Mon May 07, 2012 9:17 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Warm up was no where near sufficient and my pacing was terrible.
Going too hard off the gun is the worst mistake one can do in a TT. Give yourself time to work yourself in into the race and find your pace. A lot of people panic thinking they don't have time for this especially in a short TT but they do, you're still going fast and even though it may not be as fast as you think you should be going, it's a part of a TT you need to master to be good at it. Digging yourself too deep too soon is death :-) You never come back from it. Unless your name is Eddy Merckx

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby r2160 » Mon May 07, 2012 9:52 pm

A couple of things.

Firstly ECR is more than wide enough that no grade has any excuse to not be able to find a clear track. There is no excuse for sitting on a higher grade to take advantage. Its cheating. Are you saying that you were unable to find a clear side of the track?

Comparing a race at Lansdowne and ECR is no contest. Lansdowne is quite a narrow track, where ECR has more than enough room for one grade on one side of the track and another on the other side. You CHOSE to follow a higher grade, KNOWING that it was wrong, by your own admission.

The biggest problem that most of us now have is that apparently cheating is OK. Riding grades that you shouldnt be in is apparently OK. Quite frankly, it doesnt say much for the sport. I used to think it was about the ride, but I am being taught a lesson by lots of other riders that cheating is OK. If that is the way it is going to be, I wont bother anymore. It just isnt worth the !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!. And frankly, if daring to speak your mind is now a crime . . .

You have your facts a little incorrect as well. The person with the camera, as you would be aware, offered the footage to the commissaires, however, a laptop was required, and none was forthcoming. However, once the footage is process and put on youtube, I am sure everybody will be interested.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby bigfriendlyvegan » Mon May 07, 2012 10:19 pm

r2160 wrote:The biggest problem that most of us now have is that apparently cheating is OK. Riding grades that you shouldnt be in is apparently OK. Quite frankly, it doesnt say much for the sport. I used to think it was about the ride, but I am being taught a lesson by lots of other riders that cheating is OK. If that is the way it is going to be, I wont bother anymore. It just isnt worth the showtime.
+1

I think that Bankstown has it right where the entry fee is $5 and the prize for first place is a chance to draw the raffle ticket - and you have as much chance of winning that as anyone else. Putting many times the entry fee on the line leads to idiots trying to win it.

Don't think about giving it up, Glenn, the racing is still fun and you meet the nicest people by sitting up before the finish. It's your choice whether to play the fool or not and there's a race every weekend, so you can choose when to make your mark.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby AUbicycles » Mon May 07, 2012 10:26 pm

I was also in D grade at Eastern Creek and chatted to Sydguy - I didn't see any problem with D grade (except I only got 6th or 7th) rather felt that the A grade bunch who passed, moved in front and slowed should have instead kept space and kept on the outside of the track and allowed D grade the space to finish.

Image

Forgive the quality - this is just around the last corner before the straight - I am in maybe 8th or 9th


Image

And this is down the straight, see the marking on the road where the last car poll positions are and also take a look in the distance at the far right where A grade riders are spread across 3/4 of the track. I am in about 5th here and obviously we are moving faster in the finishing lap.


I was there and didn't see cheating rather saw the overtaking grade slowed as D grade was finishing and it was a messy finish.
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Race Report Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 08, 2012 4:07 am

Nikolai wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Warm up was no where near sufficient and my pacing was terrible.
Going too hard off the gun is the worst mistake one can do in a TT. Give yourself time to work yourself in into the race and find your pace. A lot of people panic thinking they don't have time for this especially in a short TT but they do, you're still going fast and even though it may not be as fast as you think you should be going, it's a part of a TT you need to master to be good at it. Digging yourself too deep too soon is death :-) You never come back from it. Unless your name is Eddy Merckx
I thought I got off to a good start... Trying not to go to hard but I obviously did. Seriously there was a lack of oxygen going to my brain as I was making silly mistakes like changing gears the wrong way etc. I suppose some experience will help that being my first ever tt.
Funnily enough today's team tt was a vastly different story!

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Race Report Thread

Postby toolonglegs » Tue May 08, 2012 5:46 am

Today I had two stages... A 76 km (900m climbing) then 25km TTT.
We started climbing hard about 1 km into the stage... Was close to getting dropped!... Got back on but was dropped about 15 km's later on a nasty little climb... Managed to get back to the front line about the 30 km mark or so... But then we hit the steepest climb of the day... But even though my VAM was over 1100 for 6 minutes I still went backwards.
Anyway ended up in the autobus for the last hour... Actually there was another 10 or so a long way behind our group of 20 or so... But we lost loads of time in the last 30ks.
The one good thing I will say is I did feel ok'ish and if I can lose that next 10 kgs there will be a big difference.
TTT wasn't great... One of our guys ( team of 5 ) was really nervous in the bunch and we lost a fair bit of time on the outward leg when we should of been flying ... Coming back into the head wind there was only 3 of us doing the work and then we hit the 3 km 5% climb... Our climber set the pace... I was chomping at the bit to go a bit harder but we where already done to 4 and the other 2 were close to blowing... The descent was hairy and we lost one more on the flat before the final 400m's at 10%... But we only needed 3.
Ended up about 90 secs behind wining team which I suppose isn't to bad over25kms considering.
Tomorrow will be really hard... I will get dropped but I am to stay in touch for as long as possible ( 108 km 1250m climbing).
À tout l'heure!.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby scotto » Tue May 08, 2012 9:25 am

tiz1974 wrote: i think the winner may well have been a burglar , or trained very hard for this race !! either way he wont be seen in B grade in the near future !
a quick google reveals the winner to be a certain ben larsen, possibly the proprieter of a mona vale cycling shop, an international triathlete, the designer of azzuri frames, and most likely , a burgular...

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby jules21 » Tue May 08, 2012 10:48 am

i had the same thing in a race i competed in. the winner cleared off and held off the bunch for half the race to win easily. out of curiosity, i googled his name and saw that he had won at least one club race (a competitive one) in a higher grade than he was entered in this race. there needs to be some greater control over this in Australia, i remember Cycling Tips has written about it previously.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby Row-D » Tue May 08, 2012 11:07 am

In response the the commentary on the D grade finish at Eastern Creek on Sunday, I was in the A grade bunch and am mates with the winner of D grade so I'll add my two cents worth.

I totally agree that A grade should have been over to the right of the straight allowing D grade a clear run at the finish line. However, with the size of the A grade bunch most of us had no idea D grade was on their finish lap. That said, as I saw it there was no drafting going on and towards the end there was a fair bit of shouting for A grade to get out of the way.

Finally, it is a bit unfair to label the D grade winner a burglar. He didn't rock up and put himself in D grade for this race. He has been in the grade for the entire season and before Sunday had won only one race. The Waratahs (like most clubs) have a system in place to promote riders up to the next grade when they are ready and that does not kick in after a single win.

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Re: Race Report Thread

Postby AUbicycles » Tue May 08, 2012 11:16 am

Row-D I agree. The winner is a strong sprinter and previously at an Eastern Creek race beat me in an interim and took the win on the same race.
I understand that with the handicap system, after 3 wins there is a promotion, though if this is the second win, he has one more to go.
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