Aussie drivers: world leaders

[warthog1]

Ryan Bayley, who I would imagine has done a few k's on Aussie roads, gives a blunt assessment on the quality of our driving standards/attitudes.

http://road.cc/content/news/133809-doub ... -bike-road

[Red Rider]

I liked this comment:

Of course he's scared of roads.

Sometimes he has to turn right!

[warthog1]

I wish I could say I disagree with his POV, but I don't.

I pick my route to minimise exposure by picking lightly traffic roads with wide verges. Many drivers are good but there are some dangerously aggressive ones out there. Generally male IME.

[foo on patrol]

^^^^^^^^^ Very true! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Foo

[warthog1]

I've found that dangerousness comes equally to both sexes, age is not a factor, divided road or not, traffic heavy or light, no one common factor other than I am occupying "their" space.

The dangerously aggressive ones who deliberately close pass, tend to be male IME.
Incompetence knows no age or gender though, agreed.
Less traffic and wider road = less exposure, for me anyway.
The whole attitude of the road as motorist only space, is entrenched here, and constantly reinforced by the moronic mass media. Top effort by Ryan to throw a realistic alternative view in there

[il padrone]

I wish I could say I disagree with his POV, but I don't.

I pick my route to minimise exposure by picking lightly traffic roads with wide verges. Many drivers are good but there are some dangerously aggressive ones out there. Generally male IME.

While I would agree that the batantly aggressive drivers are very few, and the vast majority of drivers manage to miss hitting me on the roads, (many are even grudgingly considerate) this is not the same thing as being good drivers.

From my brief experience of 3 months in Italy, I find that by comparison with Europe, Australian drivers are inherently aggressive (MGIF bicycle; drive at speed limit, always), they do not acknowledge a bicycle as having any place as part of traffic, they are prepared to use their motor vehicle as a weapon (look at all the feral comments to mass-media articles about cycling), and they do not have any understanding of their obligation to avoid a collision at all costs.

So I would say instead, many drivers are D-, barely skilled.

[warthog1]

From my brief experience of 3 months in Italy, I find that by comparison with Europe, Australian drivers are inherently aggressive (MGIF bicycle; drive at speed limit, always), they do not acknowledge a bicycle as having a place as part of traffic, they are prepared to use their motor vehicle as a weapon (look at all the fereal comments to mass-media articles about cycling), and they do not have any understanding of their obligation to avoid a collision at all costs.

So I wouldsay instead, many drivers are D-, barely skilled.

I don't have any OS cycling exp. Interesting to hear your experience, sounds like I'm too generous

[Hugor]

I'm more concerned about the texting 20 year old girl than the aggressive hoon tosser. The hoon may make a close pass but if you hold your line you should be ok. The 20 year old girl won't realize till she's finished her message and looked up to discover your arse on her windscreen.

[CXCommuter]

I've found that dangerousness comes equally to both sexes, age is not a factor, divided road or not, traffic heavy or light, no one common factor other than I am occupying "their" space.

Completely agree- especially after been told by a septegenerian that if I ever get in his way he will kill me. Unfortunuately I cannot pick one "social" driving group that stands out, aside from I have had a bad run with large trucks of late.

[yugyug]

I've cycled in Japan, Singapore, Germany and the Netherlands, and a little bit in China. In my observation Aussie drivers are easily the worst, barring the Chinese, who are much worse again. Small mercies I suppose.

edit: I should clarify that I mean around cyclists. I suppose aussie drivers are not that bad in general, but on road behavior around cyclists is poor, and not something found in Japan or continental Western Europe. I wouldn't really know about China, I hardly dared ride on the road.

[Cheesewheel]

I actually feel safer cycling in india (and that includes peak hour evening traffic in delhi ) than I do in australia.

Its more the indifference / high speed and low patience rather than the driving skills that sinks the rating. When I went through nepal the truck drivers would smile and wave you on like they are your number one fans (like literally 75% of them) ..... a stark contrast to australian roads.

I also do appreciate the road quality of australia which lends itself to a sort of cycling that is pleasant but I find that I really only want to take routes where I am intimately familiar with each corner and traffic island or other obstacle that forces you to take up valuable real estate from motorist..... and of course how to get from a to b with the least amount of motorists you have to rely on not to kill you.

[human909]

Google Russian dash cams.... Australia can't be the "worst".

[Drizt]

Not being the worst... Lofty title to aspire to.

I'm surprised at the responses in here given the denial in other threads that cycling on the road is dangerous.

[yugyug]

Not being the worst... Lofty title to aspire to.

I'm surprised at the responses in here given the denial in other threads that cycling on the road is dangerous.

I can't see any here saying Australia is the worst in the world, just the worst or near worst in their experience after cycling in other places like western Europe. It's obvious that Australia is not THE worst, but we still have a lot to improve. It's only bad motorists that make cycling on the road dangerous.

[Drizt]

Yeh, cycling on the road is dangerous.

[greyhoundtom]

Yeh, cycling on the road is dangerous.

I'm of the impression that driving a car is more dangerous.

[samedw]

One of my daughter's friend's mum's told me I need to watch myself because accidents happen....

This is after I casually brought up cyclists and motorists and she ranted at me for 5 mins about the "bloody tight clothes wearing poofs on their bikes".

Needless to say I give her a wide berth now at BBQ's and at school pick ups. It was scary to hear her thoughts about cycling on public roads. Very scary

[yugyug]

To others - I think driving is the safest form of transport per miles travelled, but only because it puts walking and cycling in danger.

[human909]

I'm surprised at the responses in here given the denial in other threads that cycling on the road is dangerous.

I'm guilty of this minor hypocrisy. Cycling in the absence of cars is extremely safe. Cycling among Australian drivers on high speed roads certainly has elevated risk and it is much higher than is should be due to the poor attitudes of Australian drivers.

However context is everything and statistics can be skewed badly by high risk situations. Furthermore you can pick and choose your risk profile. For example this is my subjective analysis.

Cycling 40kph residential roads with cycling infrastructure: Risk - NEGLIGABLE (x1) (This is what my regular commute is.)
Cycling 60kph busy roads with cycling infrastructure: Risk - MINOR (x10 greater)
Cycling 100kph highways with no cycling infrastructure: Risk - MAJOR (x100 greater)
Cycling 80kph busy multi lane (3+) roads with no infrastructure: Risk - SIGNIFICANT (x1000 greater) (I will not do this. Some road are simply too fast and hectic. One bad lane change and an 80kph car is 10m away and I'm doing 25kph)

To others - I think driving is the safest form of transport per miles travelled, but only because it puts walking and cycling in danger.

Except for bus, train, plane, ferry and llama.

[il padrone]

To others - I think driving is the safest form of transport per miles travelled, but only because it puts walking and cycling in danger.

Train transport is a lot safer. Air travel is also far safer.

[yugyug]

To others - I think driving is the safest form of transport per miles travelled, but only because it puts walking and cycling in danger.

Except for bus, train, plane, ferry and llama.

Happy to be corrected - but where are the local llama taxis working? That would be a great way to go home from the pub.

[DavidS]

While I agree that Australian drivers are generally crap, I still don't see that riding on roads is particularly dangerous. I have ridden on roads for 40 years. I'm not sure if the driving is better or worse now but I do know that the road toll is a fraction of what it used to be. In 40 years on the roads I have never been hit by a car. Can't say the same about train, tram or car travel.

Yes, I do have to pay attention and anticipate what others are doing, and people do truly idiotic things. But it really is not that dangerous.

DS

[Mulger bill]

Happy to be corrected - but where are the local llama taxis working? That would be a great way to go home from the pub.

Methinks they're all driving Melbs cabs...

[il padrone]

Yes, I do have to pay attention and anticipate what others are doing, and people do truly idiotic things. But it really is not that dangerous.

People on here, and friends of mine, have generally stated the opinion (from experience) that US road conditions are a good deal better than Australian roads.

[human909]

People on here, and friends of mine, have generally stated the opinion (from experience) that US road conditions are a good deal better than Australian roads.

After having driven over 10,000 miles in many states in the US I would say that their drivers are significantly better and less aggressive. Most of my time was rural as opposed to large cities so maybe it was biased, but even in Seattle, SanFran and LA the drivers weren't nearly as aggressive as here.

My cycling was more limited, however I did find that drivers were more respectful of my space and actually noticed my occupying lanes in New York. Portland and Sanfran was also pleasant but that is to be expected.

Then again... You do get some absolute cretins.... Rolling Coal