Punishment pass

[warthog1]

I am siding with NewStew on this one. We have multiple people on this forum bleating that those cyclists who run red lights, etc do not represent themselves as cyclists when it is blatantly clear from drivers that this is the case. We then turn around and do exactly the same to ALL drivers even though it is repeatedly agreed upon that 95-99% of drivers do the right thing.

I will not tar the majority of cyclists or drivers for the actions of the few stupids/ignorants/incompetents out there. Our focus should be on the minority and highlighting their behavior to the authorities to the best of our abilities, not the easy path of hating all drivers (unless that is your thing- if so go and join a critical mass and smash up a taxi or two and end up charged with assault etc).

I also have been injured years ago by a taxi in Sydney- minor injuries (cracked ribs and road rash), nothing like what several on here have, but I chose not to turn into a driver hater, scared to enter the world because of what could happen to me, but as a result become more vigilant of my surroundings and use the experience to try and reduce the risk to me.

I don't recall anyone claiming it is all drivers, a significant minority is the highest ratio I've read. Can't be bothered reading back through the whole thread though.
On a world scale however we are pretty bad
I thank courteous drivers with a wave personally, as positive reinforcement Doesn't mean I don't cop dangerous driving from a minority though. A subset of that minority are dangerously aggressive, it is them the shock jocks and tabloid media are influencing I would guess.
http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transc ... 045873.htm

[Tbanger]

Your entitled to disagree, just pointing out the pitfalls, breeeeattthh we are on the same side!!!!!

[warthog1]

Your entitled to disagree, just pointing out the pitfalls, breeeeattthh we are on the same side!!!!!

I'm just pointing out that pitfall is an imaginary one IMO

[Chuck]

I'm just pointing out that pitfall is an imaginary one IMO

+1

[Tbanger]

Onya chucky!!!!!! Rock solid lol

[outnabike]

[quote=. Tbanger...... Drivers tend to drive towards what they are concentrating on. "hey look at this tool with the sign on his back" [/quote]


Snipped

Sound like a perfect argument for not having a rego plate.

[outnabike]

So why are some trying to use a post about helping cyclists to calibrate cameras into a “I am right, you are wrong thread”
I only posted here as cycling advocates are working to stop close passing and improve safety on the roads. I can’t do a calibration for others due to different cameras but anyone with a Sony using the 1080 resolution will probably be pretty close with my 8 metre grid. You ought to try it on your movie. But it will only be close not necessarily spot on.
These are expressions that I relate to over the pages of this post.
“I agree most drivers are reasonable.”
“And while drivers continue to infringe and I can continue to have them pinged with TINs I will.”
“I don't recall anyone claiming it is all drivers, a significant minority is the highest ratio I've read… I thank courteous drivers with a wave personally I don't cop dangerous driving from a minority though.”
“Looks like a losing battle to get our side of the story across no matter how many videos get reported.”
“Which is why it is imperative that every cyclist that is capable of doing so, should be spending the time to report infractions in a manner that will ensure maximum potential for results”
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….
By the way folks, I only do around 2000 klm per year and do not claim some guru cycling status.
I am at a loss to understand the posts trying to knock back a tool to stop close passing and then harping on the story of sharing the love on the road, and trying to pit cyclist against cyclist. I have tried to be positive and reasonable, and the negative members are getting upset and personal in their replies.
I can understand the cyclists that don’t have to ride on roads taking a softer line, but I can’t understand that cyclist chastising others that get these close passes due to riding on the road. Those folks in denial over close passes, do you get upset when you read? “Six cyclists hit”, “Mother of four killed on cycle”, “Rider hit whilst riding in Audax”. I do. And believe it or not, it was nearly me by a close margin in the pics I have posted.
So why are some trying to use a post about helping cyclists to calibrate cameras into a “I am right you are wrong thread”

[K2]

.....
So why are some trying to use a post about helping cyclists to calibrate cameras into a “I am right you are wrong thread”

It's the internets. Everybody gets a say. For all you know they could be twelve or compulsive argumenters. You can engage others and point out where your experience/opinion differs, but don't get drawn into worrying about it too much.

You know your own experiences aren't imagined, that your stance isn't unreasonable - especially given the support others are lending, and that what you're doing is of benefit to others. Just keep at it and if necessary try to ignore those whose purposes seem to be steadfastly skewiff.

(Also forum threads rarely stay directly on point. They branch off as folk take up one specific word/phrase/idea and run with it. My name is K2 and I am a serial offender in this regard ).

[il padrone]

I got the close-shave by a few vehicles on my commute to and fro today. About 3-4 all up. Some were just dumb clutzes who don't even give a damn, some were ignorant laziness, but at least one was an outright deliberate close-shave. In all cases part of the problem was I was too reasonable - riding to the left and lazy drivers don't bother to change lanes. After these incidents I rode much wider, claiming the lane fully by riding in the centre or even right of centre (on a 70kmh road) and I had no more such passes.

[outnabike]

Oxford,
I thought that Turkey should have gone into the Magpie section.... But it is nice to have a pleasant ride. I went off and rode with my wife on paths today which is pretty calm, though sometimes it means putting the bikes on the ute.

IP,
I took a still from the Sony video which has very nice colour as the day was great. I am about 50 metres in front of my wife here, and I waited till she was in the shade to extract the pic. But the light from the dynamo is very visible for a bright day time shot.
It shows you don't need the wizz bang bright Led set ups to be seen. I find them good even for path as peds oncoming see them pretty easily.
We look like ma and pa kettle belting along at a roaring 20 kph there.....

[il padrone]

Ooohh yeah! The dynamo light sure shines up very fine, especially at a distance of 100-400m. Here's mine at a good 200-300m distance on an outback road in NT.




My son's on a forest track in the Otways (closer with zoom used).

[outnabike]

Hi BianchiCam I am placing this comment here as I have covered a lot of these points.
First off that is a close pass and though on video, it is an example of a camera that needs calibrating a bit, and I will show you why.
Firstly to qualify that my shot will be out a little; as the 8 metre long grid is set for my Sony which is a 2.5 mm lens and your Fly6 though not listed in the manual, being 130 degrees would be about 2.8 mm.
Any way I took a still from your video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqKorUAfsU#t=38" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and superimposed my calibration to your pic.
It shows the direction of the camera and its attitude as well. So it is a bit off line towards the centre of the road and up a bit high.
Just showing all this to indicate the words of Oxford and his approach to be spot on. Not to say I know what I am doing well at all, but just trying to help here. I also note that the spinning text is a distraction, though it is handy for you to nominate a spot for an Utube section.
I suggest to any one that is going to submit these movies to police, that they post such a video if they want, but first place the unedited version in the line to show what the camera says, with a minute on each end to give a setting.
When a cam is aimed a bit too far into the centre line it gives the impression of crabbing down the road, and also gives the illusion of the car being closer than it is.I did another pic of the next couple of frames and it showed that the car was actually over you. Thankfully it didn’t but that was certainly too close for comfort.
A rough way to calibrate a camera is to run out an 8 metre tape in a straight line. Stand the bike straight up and inline from the start of the tape to the other end. From the tapes end, run a few seconds of video, then go and view it.
You should have a good idea where your cam is pointing. If you start the tape from a wall you can put some elec tape vertically as well and get a height to aim at as well. I see the fly comes with some shims to allow for differing degrees so the will be handy.

[outnabike]

Well after all the rigmarole of proving my case on this incident I have a result from the officer in charge.
The investigating officer found the car is owned by a lady who does not know who was driving the car that day. She has been advised to keep a log book of intending drivers.
I actually laughed at this statement and made a comment that I did provide as good a close up picture of the driver as I could and it should be a pretty good indication of the driver.

It happened almost exactly a month ago and I submitted that pic of a male wearing glasses. She could not possibly comprehend who that driver was.
So it is as simple as that.
I did read at one time that even police officers in Victoria have been booked driving through red lights, been photographed, and used the same argument “the driver cannot be identified.” They also were let off with cautions.
Now we see the practical application of our cameras at work.
The only consolation I may have is that in the end it is a warning to the perpetrator of this sort of intimidating driving, and it might make him pull his horns in.

One wonders in the event of an injury, would the police ask the questions to pick up this driver; Like, when is your boyfriend or husband home for an interview? Are you in the habit of lending your car to strangers? This driver has short hair and wears glasses. Does your partner wear glasses? What would your vehicle be used for on Greens road that day at that time? Is Greens road near your partners place of employment?

[AKO]

I did that once on my CBD commute and a guy in a small car actually passed me on my left (pre-DVRs). It wasn't a very good car because the driver side mirror fell off when he was stopped in traffic further up the road.

I had a similar incident yesterday. I don't want to offend the obese, but this fat slob looking thing passed me with about 30 cm to spare. The middle finger she was so forcefully displaying gives me no doubt it was a punishment pass. Then just like your experience, her passengers side mirror fell off at the next set of lights. Weird huh?
Then I had a similar thing happen today on the exit of a roundabout. Moron towing a caravan, once again displaying the one finger salute as he shaved me on the exit. If I wasn't veering toward the shoulder the caravan would most definitely have made contact with me (centimetres in it as it was).
Dropped a not so subtle hint to the misus that Father's Day is Sunday and the lbs have fly6's in stock. She probably didn't get the hint though.

[Chris249]

I got the close-shave by a few vehicles on my commute to and fro today. About 3-4 all up. Some were just dumb clutzes who don't even give a damn, some were ignorant laziness, but at least one was an outright deliberate close-shave. In all cases part of the problem was I was too reasonable - riding to the left and lazy drivers don't bother to change lanes. After these incidents I rode much wider, claiming the lane fully by riding in the centre or even right of centre (on a 70kmh road) and I had no more such passes.

Experiences differ. I ride well to the left a lot of the time and have very few close shaves and very few problems with aggressive drivers.

I do tend to take quieter routes when possible, and to go as fast as I can when on busy major roads. I get the feeling that drivers can see that you are trying to slow them as little as possible and that they appreciate it.

It's not an option open to everyone but apart from one incident it's worked fine for commuting, training, touring, utility and "sport" riding and when working as a courier.

[outnabike]

I have friends in Eumemmerring, so rather than battle the South Gippsland Highway I throw the bike on the ute and park at their place. Then it's only 3 to 4 klm to the Dandenong market.
I had an easy run , not too busy and I was puffing up a hill towards Stud road when I was close passed three times in 300 metres.
I know it’s my invitation for this to happen, but I was only doing 10 klm per hour here so I was just trying to give and get a fair go. It is a double lane road at this point and I mistakenly played the good guy. Looks like I will have to claim the lane even at low speed. But honestly, wouldn’t you think these people would move over when there is a spare lane? Nope……

I will start up a Utube account as I can see this is an on-going trend, but for now I will just post the single pics. Now I have 3 more reports to submit.

Any way I gave the Mobius a good work out, and apart from the usual short run time, it makes excellent video, and the stills from it easily capture number plates.

Two went buy at a slower pace but there was one which comes into the malicious category so I reckon I have had another punishment pass. This bloke was going to do this no matter where on the road I was.





I ride some tough roads but didn't think I could get into any trouble here. You think you are doing well but it sure looks like just sit in the middle at any speed.


Some front shots as well.Here I superimposed myself just for an idea of actual room. He was dong his good 60 kph here.


But guess what I caught him at the Stud rd lights. He He He.


I had a little chat, and I am afraid I lost my cool as this was just one of three incidents. I was feeling a little bit peeved and let him know it.Sadly I tapped on his window a bit as he didn't seem to want to talk. Good thing for us both that he turned left.

[InTheWoods]

That's a shocker, I'd report that one...

[il padrone]

+1

[greyhoundtom]

what are you worrying about, he never actually hit you, and if he had Done so according to the sign on the post as shown in the last photo there is a hospital just around the corner

all I can say is, if that had happened to me and I caught up with the moron he would have needed to get his drivers side door panel repaired

But then it is issues such as this one happening to me on a far too regular basis that has seen me give up riding on the road.

[outnabike]

It felt good to want an answer an the time but now I just regret tapping on his window. Closest I have ever come to road rage. Any way I have made a pretty good presentation with the three motorists getting an independent incident report. I will mail it by reg mail to morrow.

Part of my letter to the chief of Police in Melbourne,

"Many cyclists of clubs, and regular road users are becoming concerned that although a person can be booked and fined by Vic Roads cameras (and that’s fair enough), sometimes the fines are for small offences as well.
Yet when we present video of life threatening actions by motorists all we seem to be able to hope for is an apology? So will a video of an offender only be of account if a rider gets killed? To this writer it is incongruous, that a policeman comes back with an apology from a motorist that if that motorist apologised for a different offence and was caught by cameras, would be fined.
I have never found an apology to be of use in not receiving a fine, yet these negligent drivers are getting off scot free."

[outnabike]

I had a visit from two police force officers today Saturday 1/11/2014 at just after 6 pm. Yes that’s right I can get no action to get evidence on the punishment pass episode but they have visited me after hours on a Saturday, to personally say they will do no more on any of my 5 cases of close passing.
No letter nothing in writing no proof. (They Think.)
The officer stated he had cleared his action with his commanding officer and for me to get a petition together to lobby the government to change the law so it says we must get a metre clearance.
(I have already posted the planned bill on (another thread), that will go before parliament; but did not go into it.)
He said none of the people I reported did any wrong and all had excellent driving records. He said I was being ridiculous and he would do no more about it.
He said if I didn’t feel safe, to drive my car instead, or drive on the footpath. Yes, this from a Victorian police man.
I said “it’s not that I don’t feel unsafe it’s that motorists are driving dangerously; adults are not to ride on foot paths and he said “so who is going to book you”? I reiterated” "you are!” as foot paths are for 12 year olds. He said no it is ok for 14 year olds.

I said that it is dangerous driving to close pass riders to which I was given “it is not against the law”.
I said what about a car having to get into the next lane to overtake safely and leave a clear margin for another car, if the passed within 300 mm you would book them, yet do it to a bike rider you say it OK?.
He said he could see nothing wrong in the actions of the drivers from my videos.Non of the drivers could even remember passing me except the bloke whose window I tapped on.

I made the point that if I report a hoon driver, on my say so he gets booked, yet with video of a life threatening act you deny me any help from the law.

“Go and get all your mates to make a petition to your MP. I am responsible for every case that I bring forward and I will go no further,” was all I received.

This went back and forward for a full ten minutes. This must be the way police are silencing any cyclist that are persistent with close passing incidents. He told me I can take my own legal case up with freedom of information or whatever I want. I said how I do that I don’t even have info on who the people are. He said that’s up to you and the court system.

I have not posted videos of the incidents as I did not want to jeopardise an investigation. Looks like I need some legal advice.

[human909]

I had a visit from two police force officers today Saturday 1/11/2014 at just after 6 pm. Yes that’s right I can get no action to get evidence on the punishment pass episode but they have visited me after hours on a Saturday, to personally say they will do no more on any of my 5 cases of close passing.
No letter nothing in writing no proof. (They Think.)
The officer stated he had cleared his action with his commanding officer and for me to get a petition together to lobby the government to change the law so it says we must get a metre clearance.
(I have already posted the planned bill on (another thread), that will go before parliament; but did not go into it.)
He said none of the people I reported did any wrong and all had excellent driving records. He said I was being ridiculous and he would do no more about it.
He said if I didn’t feel safe, to drive my car instead, or drive on the footpath. Yes, this from a Victorian police man.
I said “it’s not that I don’t feel unsafe it’s that motorists are driving dangerously; adults are not to ride on foot paths and he said “so who is going to book you”? I reiterated” "you are!” as foot paths are for 12 year olds. He said no it is ok for 14 year olds.

I said that it is dangerous driving to close pass riders to which I was given “it is not against the law”.
I said what about a car having to get into the next lane to overtake safely and leave a clear margin for another car, if the passed within 300 mm you would book them, yet do it to a bike rider you say it OK?.
He said he could see nothing wrong in the actions of the drivers from my videos.Non of the drivers could even remember passing me except the bloke whose window I tapped on.

I made the point that if I report a hoon driver, on my say so he gets booked, yet with video of a life threatening act you deny me any help from the law.

“Go and get all your mates to make a petition to your MP. I am responsible for every case that I bring forward and I will go no further,” was all I received.

This went back and forward for a full ten minutes. This must be the way police are silencing any cyclist that are persistent with close passing incidents. He told me I can take my own legal case up with freedom of information or whatever I want. I said how I do that I don’t even have info on who the people are. He said that’s up to you and the court system.

I have not posted videos of the incidents as I did not want to jeopardise an investigation. Looks like I need some legal advice.

Try taking it further up the chain. But in many ways the policeman is right. Despite the title of Rule 144 Keeping a safe distance when overtaking, the rule doesn't actually require you to overtake in a safe manner. Furthermore other legislation like dangerous driving which does seem applicable isn't even used when cyclists are killed let alone a near miss.

If I was you I would try to contact BNV. They have been arguing against a 1m safer overtaking law. They have legal advisors too.

[g-boaf]

I had such a pass today near Toongabbie railway station. White diesel Hilux crew-cab ute, with number plate starting in XFX decided to go slowly past me and then swerve across towards me. Only I expected it was going to happen and was already hard on the brakes, so he missed by miles.

[London Boy]

Do you know, in these forums I keep reading about dangerous situations involving cars. Not always clear what these situations are, but I think highlighting examples of good safety practice is a good thing to do. For example, when I did some work up in the Basin I was issued with various mine safety devices. One example:

I do not suggest they are appropriate for the situation you might find yourself in, but they are invaluable in their place. Use them if you're in a spot and you need to get through a window that you can't open by conventional means. Kind of thing?

[HiChris]

Would be great for tapping on the windows of those drivers who buz you and you manage to catch up to at the next lights. Probably less effort than removing their mirror