Our Friendly Vegan

[Strydz]

If your choice of lifestyle lets you feel good about the world, stay healthy and enjoy life.....whatever that lifestyle is....what's the issue? Live and let live?

Note.....I'm not even referring to an accumulation of Everests (5?) here...something my meat and 3 veg lifestyle hasn't been able to do once

Diet...the new battleground. Who needs religion?

Actually its 6 but who's counting
I am all for people eating what works for them, I just don't understand why some think my dietary choices make me gullible but I doubt I ever will

[Strydz]

Tomatoes make me itch... But I love tomatoes

Can't eat them myself, they make me violently i'll and even the smell of Tomatoes has been known to make my stomach churn

[foo on patrol]

Tomatoes make me itch... But I love tomatoes

Foo

[foo on patrol]

I like tomatoes too but it's so hard to get proper nice ones unless you grow them at home. We usually grow a few cherry tomatoes over summer and eat them off the bush, they're great in cooking too if you have a glut. Cheese on the other hand I love as well but it gives me weird dreams.

Try and get the Bullock Heart strain as they are the best tasting ones that I have ever eaten. When I grew these, I would get three to the kg
and never needed to season them.

Foo

[battler2]

I just don't understand why some think my dietary choices make me gullible but I doubt I ever will

i had a reply typed up before because thought i'd leave it, there's no point in arguing with vegans as they're often clouded by their own sense of 'correct' judgement and often completely discount other factors into their weight loss/health improvement, including their genetics and what they did/ate before going vegan.

confirmation bias works both ways, and credibility of publications is something grossly overlooked in health and nutritional reporting.

[mikesbytes]

Cherry tomatoes grow wild in my garden, I get so many that lots end up rotting. I have no idea what species they are as I never planted them in the first place, but if they are that easy to grow, then I recommend them to anyone who has somewhere to grow them

[CKinnard]

Several years ago, I lived on acreage outside Brisbane, and we had cherry toms in many places. The ones that did the best had all day sun exposure and grew close to granite rocks with some westerly orientation. So I presume all day heat made the difference. They were prolific for most of the year, and had the rich smell and taste of yesteryear. Tomatoes these days in general smell and taste pathetic.

[toolonglegs]

My Dad used to grow the best tomatoes... problem is that I always go home in December and they wern't ready till Jan!.

[Mulger bill]

Tomatoes make me itch... But I love tomatoes

Can't eat them myself, they make me violently i'll and even the smell of Tomatoes has been known to make my stomach churn

Only raw toms for mine, cook 'em up and I'm good as long as I don't go overboard.

[Strydz]

I just don't understand why some think my dietary choices make me gullible but I doubt I ever will

i had a reply typed up before because thought i'd leave it, there's no point in arguing with vegans as they're often clouded by their own sense of 'correct' judgement and often completely discount other factors into their weight loss/health improvement, including their genetics and what they did/ate before going vegan.

confirmation bias works both ways, and credibility of publications is something grossly overlooked in health and nutritional reporting.

So in your opinion all Vegans are gullible? So the decision I made for myself to not eat animal products is incorrect to you? Does it matter that I made the choice myself and it nothing to do with anybody else's opinions, nothing to do with losing weight or even ideas of improving my health. I am not forcing my beliefs of nutrition on anybody yet you seem to think that because i'm a vegan you lump me into a sub group of delusional people, I wonder if you realise that some might fall into being a vegan thanks to outside forces and others can actually make up there own minds and do it out of free choice. So what in your opinion is my ideal diet seeing as you think my dietary choice is such a massive mistake? Or are you just trolling buddy?

[ball bearing]

can i ask you one question, why isn't any of this published in credible journals?

edit: i'll also mention, you gave me the perfect response. links to a bunch of pro-vegan websites and TED talks (which anyone can do).

"Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets....

...It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes...."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[battler2]

So in your opinion all Vegans are gullible?

yes.

So the decision I made for myself to not eat animal products is incorrect to you?

meat, fish and dairy. and yes.

Does it matter that I made the choice myself and it nothing to do with anybody else's opinions, nothing to do with losing weight or even ideas of improving my health.

if that were the truth i'd believe you. but it rarely is.

I am not forcing my beliefs of nutrition on anybody yet you seem to think that because i'm a vegan you lump me into a sub group of delusional people, I wonder if you realise that some might fall into being a vegan thanks to outside forces and others can actually make up there own minds and do it out of free choice.

you're not, but the subject of this thread is and does, but denies it vehemently. the reality is, vegans are no better than the people they aspire to hate. 'meat industry' etc.

So what in your opinion is my ideal diet seeing as you think my dietary choice is such a massive mistake? Or are you just trolling buddy?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R_KYk-qIoac/maxresdefault.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CKinnard]

you're not, but the subject of this thread is and does, but denies it vehemently. the reality is, vegans are no better than the people they aspire to hate. 'meat industry' etc.

So what in your opinion is my ideal diet seeing as you think my dietary choice is such a massive mistake? Or are you just trolling buddy?

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R_KYk-qIoac/maxresdefault.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

battler, the point is not all diets are equal in terms of morbidity risk and longevity advantage, and attitudes such as you are adopting suppress the free discussion of such. Admittedly, veganism is a life philosophy, and there is no specific vegan macro ratio or recommended number of serves of various food groups. Hence many vegans are not necessarily healthy. Many vegans mistake health benefits come purely from dropping animal products, which is where they are deluded. Vegan diet health benefits are more to do with taking a very large volume of fibrous carbs and fruit. It is very possible to be a vegan and eat nutritionally unbalanced, and fail to meet the Australian nutritional guidelines. In fact, most vegans I know don't eat the recommended minimum serves of fruit and vege.

This is why the literature shies away from recommending a 'vegan diet' and prefers 'whole foods plant based' with specific serves for each major food group.

[warthog1]

Kudos on your patient reply CK.
Still no evidence supporting his stance.

[ball bearing]

Still no evidence supporting his stance.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R_KYk-qIoac/maxresdefault.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What else does he need to prove his case?

I think he is probably the banana man having a bit of fun.

[Mulger bill]

Still no evidence supporting his stance.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R_KYk-qIoac/maxresdefault.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What else does he need to prove his case?

I think he is probably the banana man having a bit of fun.

He's using a VPN if that's the case.

Let's try to be civil here people, play the ball not the man.
BB, not directed at you; just hanging it off the back of your quote and response.

Shaun

[ColinOldnCranky]

All you have managed to do Battler is cast aspersions on the quality of Nobody's references and results without listing any opposing references of your own.
Without providing any supporting information your opinion carries no weight.

The OP listed a heap of links as supportive. Non-authorative (in the case of science read published in non-peer reviewed journals, especially those that researchers themselves would seek to have themselves published in before others).

I haven't bothered to follow the links (there are just too much information-noise in the Web to troll thru to find the real stuff) but it is,of course, quite possible that the articles are a fair representation of peer reviewed research. Though I would not presume such without some reason.

[tcdev]

15 pages and counting; just goes to show that the old adage, "Don't discuss religion or politics with your friends" should be extended to include dietary preferences!

My own view is that I'm not really concerned about anyone else's dietary preferences - and I expect you to be equally unconcerned about mine. If you want to be a breatharian, or even eat 30 bananas a day, then good luck to you.

I will say that, as has been pointed out in this thread, Veganism isn't a magic bullet either. I personally know one vegan - with a somewhat ironically unhealthy obsession with food - who could not be considered healthy by any stretch of the imagination. And it's patently obvious too.

[Nobody]

I will say that, as has been pointed out in this thread, Veganism isn't a magic bullet either. I personally know one vegan - with a somewhat ironically unhealthy obsession with food - who could not be considered healthy by any stretch of the imagination. And it's patently obvious too.

Not surprising since veganism doesn't have a diet plan. However, WFPB is a general diet plan.

While you know one vegan with issues, I know of many people on the average Australian diet with diet related or influenced problems (including myself from my previous diet). Especially those over 50. Issues like obesity, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease, type 2 diabetes, cancer, auto-immune diseases, Alzheimer's etc.

The main reason this thread continues is that people in the "in group" use it as a platform to keep posting criticisms of those in the "out groups", who then respond.

[dalai47]

Not sure why you are so antagonistic to Strydz Battler2? I've read back a number of pages and have seen no where Strydz is preaching trying to convert others to veganism... He has meerly mentioned he is vegan and felt this was a good choice for him.

You don't work for the Australian Meat Board by any chance?

[ball bearing]

...ironically unhealthy obsession with food...

Funny you should mention that. I regularly hear people say that they would rather die a few years early than give up whatever foods they know are unhealthy and they are addicted to. These people seem to think that dying early is falling asleep and not waking up when the reality often is years of disease, pain and suffering.

Now that's what I call an unhealthy obsession with food.

[battler2]

[warthog1]

All you have managed to do Battler is cast aspersions on the quality of Nobody's references and results without listing any opposing references of your own.
Without providing any supporting information your opinion carries no weight.

The OP listed a heap of links as supportive. Non-authorative (in the case of science read published in non-peer reviewed journals, especially those that researchers themselves would seek to have themselves published in before others).

I haven't bothered to follow the links (there are just too much information-noise in the Web to troll thru to find the real stuff) but it is,of course, quite possible that the articles are a fair representation of peer reviewed research. Though I would not presume such without some reason.

I was talking about the interaction between Nobody and Battler. I don't include banana boy in that.
I have followed Nobody's progress on a wfpb diet and it is quite impressive. His diet and supporting evidence are far more balanced than that of the you tube whore.
He doesn't irritate me either thougb he can be a shizen stirrer I see that as a positive attribute however.

[tcdev]

Funny you should mention that. I regularly hear people say that they would rather die a few years early than give up whatever foods they know are unhealthy and they are addicted to. These people seem to think that dying early is falling asleep and not waking up when the reality often is years of disease, pain and suffering.

Now that's what I call an unhealthy obsession with food.

Hah, you make a really good point, I've never actually thought of it that way

In the case of this particular vegan, the obsession manifests itself via constant raving to anyone that will listen about the 'yumminess' of vegan restaurants and vegan recipes (mainly desserts) - almost like they're trying to convince themselves - and travel to and attendance of every single vegan festival/convention on the calendar. Like I said, I don't really care what they choose to eat or not eat, but I am well and truly sick of hearing about it.

[ball bearing]

Like I said, I don't really care what they choose to eat or not eat, but I am well and truly sick of hearing about it.

What is odd is that I absolutely never bring up the subject of whether to eat animal products or not. The discussions invariably happen when I have a vegan plate in front of me a someone asks out of curiosity or sometimes they seem to get annoyed simply because...

The part that puzzles me is when someone develops a serious disease such as bowel cancer or some other condition and they refuse to take and responsibility or even question what they could have done to possibly prevent the disease from occurring in the first place. I know of several people who have had their guts cut away and they blame it on stress or some other vague cause instead of looking at their diet or other possible cause. Aren't they concerned for their children or other people close in order to inform and prevent them from also falling ill?