Rebuild costs for frame replacement

[Longbow]

The law says that if you have a major problem with a recent purchase it's the responsibility of the retailer, not the manufacturer, to resolve it. You have the right to a refund or a replacement, not just a repair. And you have the right to be compensated for the cost of returning the item.

This is not how it seems to work in the bicycle industry. My nearly new Focus has developed a cracked frame. The retailer wants me to go through my local Focus dealer for a new frame and pay the rebuild costs myself ($200+) or otherwise to pay the costs of a return to him for remedy ($300 round-trip by courier).

I sympathise with the retailer, who should not have to pick up the costs of remedy himself, but as the law stands I should not be out of pocket either.

Anybody else been down this road please?

[im_no_pro]

It's a tough one. Be wary of the advice you get in relation to the competition & consumer act (and the TPA before it), particularly on the internets. As someone who is fairly intimately familiar with it (because my job over time has required me to be), I find some of the advice given to consumers by other consumers to be incredibly misleading.

The primary thing to keep in mind when it comes to consumer guarantees is that the legislation is deliberately vague. People read things like 'major fault' and then assume they get to determine what major is (sometimes incorrectly). 'Reasonable period' is another favorite. Just because the consumer expects a $20 power tool from bunning to last 5 years doesn't make that reasonable. A crack in a frame could be classed as major, or it could not (there isn't enough info in your post to determine that e.g. it could be a crack in the clear coat which is not a major fault as the legislation defines it IMHO). Sometimes the determination of major cannot be made until the product is assessed, which means you may not know what the correct course of action is until after you have returned it. Last but not least, my personal favorite (which doesnt really apply here) is 'This happened to me once and I got a refund, so you are entitled to one' No, genius. Sometimes the retailer gives you a refund because they are sick of your crap and its just easier. Doesnt mean they were legally obligated to do so. The wisest of all the armchair experts (aka A current affair) have a lot to answer for that one in particular.

My suggestion is to talk with your retailer. Keep an open dialogue with them. Inform them that you want this addressed under your statutory warranty, not the manufacturer warranty. Be clear that you understand what you are entitled to (without being a flog about it, which is difficult). Give them the opportunity to resolve it (a second time if need be). Document your experience and if it doesnt go the way you believe it should then contact your local dept of fair trading (dont contact the ACCC, that's the #1 piece of misleading advice given in these types of situations from the armchair experts). Ensure you have exhausted all appropriate avenues first (otherwise they will tell you to do that and come back when that doesn't work).

Be prepared for the fact that the retailer may not share your intepretation of your statutory rights, at which point DFT becomes your mediator. Be prepared for the fact that they may not share your interpretation either (although unlikely, experience says they sit between middle ground and benefit of doubt going to the consumer)

[adam0bmx0]

Just for info, I recently had my BMC frame replaced under warrenty, it was a 2014 frame and had a clear crack. The local BMC dealer handled the contact with BMC regarding the replacement frame, however I did have to pay the shop to build the bike up with my existing components, they charged $280. I was happy enough as I got a brand new frame.

[Longbow]

Adam - after 2+ years of use that's fair enough as you are probably reliant on a claim under the manufacturer's warranty. But after 4 months the enhanced rights of the statutory warranty should still apply.

[im_no_pro]

Adam - after 2+ years of use that's fair enough as you are probably reliant on a claim under the manufacturer's warranty. But after 4 months the enhanced rights of the statutory warranty should still apply.

Correct. You purchased a bike, not a frame, some wheels & a bunch of components. Under statutory warranty there should be no cost for disassembly/reassembly.

I also missed the bit at the end of the OP. Why sympathise with the retailer? It's on them under statutory warranty.

[human909]

No two ways about it. A repair/refund/replacement is in order and it is completely up to the retailer to sort that out in a timely fashion.

Don't have any sympathy at all for the retailer. They sold you a faulty product. It is up to them to take it up with their supplier.

[zero]

There are 2 components to a warranty.

(a) the whole bicycle under warranty.
(b) the extended period that you purely have a frame warranty.

IMO during (a) you should get the bicycle repaired at no cost to you.
During (b) its up to the individual dealer.

If the bike is still under its general warranty, and the dealer wants to be paid, I'd be telling him that his options are no cost frame replacement, full refund or trip to the tribunal.

[Longbow]

I agree. My dealer's response falls short of what the law requires. But asking around it seems to be typical, so it would be helpful to hear from anybody who has actually secured a refund or return in this situation.

[madmacca]

Correct. You purchased a bike, not a frame, some wheels & a bunch of components. Under statutory warranty there should be no cost for disassembly/reassembly.

This.

Although perhaps $50-100 for the costs of new cables, and a cleaning of components before reinstallation might not be unreasonable - basically you are getting the bike back in slightly better condition than immediately before the crack occurred.

I suspect that industry practice is just to supply a new frame, which leaves the LBS out of pocket for the labour costs of reinstalling components. Until someone brings a test case (preferrably with ACCC or DFT/DCA involvement), industry practice won't change.

[Tim]

I received a full cash refund from the LBS for a Cannondale Synapse that had a dodgy press-fit BB30 bottom bracket. It creaked from day 1, drove me nuts and continued to creak after three LBS repair attempts. (I'd had BB30 problems on an earlier bike too.)
Armed with printed copies of consumer rights information ie. major/minor faults, fit for purpose, repair, replace, refund policies etc, and a filled-in but not yet lodged VCAT (Vic) application form I argued with the then Aust Cannondale distributor and the LBS.
Cannondale offered a new frame which wasn't acceptable to me unless they could be certain it wouldn't also creak. That was the best they came up with so I tackled the LBS again and asked for a refund. In my opinion a creaky BB was not fit for purpose and I'd have not bought the bike had I known the BB30 system in general was, at the time, plagued by such problems. The only other option being to lodge the VCAT form.
The refund was given. Bear in mind I live in a smallish country town, the bike shop owner is a genuine, reputable good bloke and word spreads fast in our small cycling community.
I've since bought two bikes from the LBS and other bits and pieces.
One of the two later bikes, an expensive Giant TCR Advanced SL developed problems on one of the frame dropouts. Dreading a repeat of the earlier experience I contacted the LBS again. He contacted Giant who requested photos of the trouble spot which I provided. Sight unseen, by either the LBS or Giant in person the frame was replaced and bike rebuilt at no cost to me within a two week time frame. I received the latest model, top of the line equivalent replacement frame. Brilliant service.
I hold my LBS and Giant in high esteem and will happily continue to support both.
Cannondale Aust were a bunch of sniveling mongrels and I continue to bag them and boycott their products. However, Cannondale has a different Aust.distributor nowadays.
The LBS dumped Cannondale after this episode and numerous others.

[Tim]

I suspect that industry practice is just to supply a new frame, which leaves the LBS out of pocket for the labour costs of reinstalling components.

Giant reimbursed my LBS for the rebuild labour cost.
It wasn't much, about $80.00 is what the owner told me, if memory serves.
Assembling a bike shouldn't take more than a couple of hours in skilled hands and a good workshop.

[TheShadow]

Does the 2010 consumer act say you are entitled to replacement or refund, or that you are entitled to "ask" for that?

I had this happen with a brand new DC motor ceiling fan-LED light combo that cost $500 installed and has not worked ONCE. Called shop, told to put in warranty claim. Okaaaay. I'm still waiting for the repair agent to call me (his deadline was yesterday). I'm currently sitting in the dark, for 3 weeks now.

See, clearly this is why that 2010 Consumer Act was passed. Everyone is getting palmed off onto the manufacturer. What teeth the Act has, I'd like to know. I suspect not much. Tho I've seen several Harvey Norman franchises have been fined large amounts recently for this type of issue.

On a bicycle related note, I took my carbon bike frame into shop to have a potential issue assessed (at their invitation) and discussed with the manufacturer. I just wanted to know, if nothing else, how bad it was and what to do about it. I wasn't demanding a new frame. I've heard exactly *nothing* from anyone. Waste of time even going there, apparently. It was the same when i wanted advice from the manufacturer on another technical issue. Just no response whatsoever - won't even communicate with you via any means. I would take my money somewhere else.... if I thought it would actually make any difference. I feel like I bought a carbon Formula One race car chassis >>> you're on your own once you take it out the showroom door.

[Tim]

The Law very definitely has teeth.
Unfortunately it seems many retailers have to be cajoled, if not kicked into action.
Being polite and patient doesn't always work.
It is the retailers responsibility to act on Statutory Warranty issues.

[human909]

I suspect that industry practice is just to supply a new frame, which leaves the LBS out of pocket for the labour costs of reinstalling components. Until someone brings a test case (preferrably with ACCC or DFT/DCA involvement), industry practice won't change.

Nothing to do with consumers bringing a test case and everything to do with LBS choosing their suppliers wisely and ensuring that they are contractually covered as necessary for being supplied faulty goods. No consumer in Australia should be chasing warranty through the manufacturers for products that are supplied faulty.

I had this happen with a brand new DC motor ceiling fan-LED light combo that cost $500 installed and has not worked ONCE. Called shop, told to put in warranty claim. Okaaaay. I'm still waiting for the repair agent to call me (his deadline was yesterday). I'm currently sitting in the dark, for 3 weeks now.

To be blunt your mistake was putting in a warranty claim. Your legal contract is with the retailer/installer not the manufacturer. In fact the manufacturer has NO direct legal obligation to you. The retailer does have a direct legal obligation to you.

[human909]

The poor experience from manufacturers warranties in Australia is quite common and it isn't just cycling equipment. It occurs largely because most manufactures don't directly distribute and market their product here. They have distributors and they are the ones responsible for the warranties. These distributors have multiple product lines and their care for one brand name reputation is not high.

So while some people in this thread might have complained about terrible experience from Cannondale this experience might vastly differ from that received in North America. Cannondale head office might be quite annoyed that their reputation in Australia is being destroyed by a dodgy distributor here.

Any high end reputable brand you should ignore the Australian contacts and go straight to the head office. I've done that before and I received a brand new item shipped, no proof of purchase and no questions asked beyond my shipping address. All I did email them with a photo of the damage to the product. The product itself wasn't even faulty, it was simply damaged from a big impact. I had zero legal right for a replacement. But good brands know customer satisfaction is their lifeblood.

[Longbow]

My dealer has now made a partial offer of costs but has yet to acknowledge that statutory rights of return or refund apply regardless of the terms of the manufacturers warranty.

[fat and old]

To be blunt your mistake was putting in a warranty claim. Your legal contract is with the retailer/installer not the manufacturer. In fact the manufacturer has NO direct legal obligation to you. The retailer does have a direct legal obligation to you.

You sure? I must have got lucky last week then. 5 YO Samsung 55" tv went on the fritz. Got repair guy out, he notified Samsung unknown to us. Turns out it's still under warranty. Not worth repairing, Samsung gave us $4,200 store credit (original purchase price!) at JB. Even Steven

[human909]

To be blunt your mistake was putting in a warranty claim. Your legal contract is with the retailer/installer not the manufacturer. In fact the manufacturer has NO direct legal obligation to you. The retailer does have a direct legal obligation to you.

You sure? I must have got lucky last week then. 5 YO Samsung 55" tv went on the fritz. Got repair guy out, he notified Samsung unknown to us. Turns out it's still under warranty. Not worth repairing, Samsung gave us $4,200 store credit (original purchase price!) at JB. Even Steven

Different circumstance. 5YO TV vs a new item that arrived faulty. Sounds like you got great treatment from Samsung though!

[TheShadow]

^ I think you're right, Human. Part of the problem is that the fan is installed, so not quite so easy to pack back into the box and return it to the store, although I could do it since the hard wiring connection is actually only an easy to disconnect plug. Even simpler, afaik, all I need is the $155 controller/receiver which can be removed with no tools in seconds. The shop could give me one from another unit in stock.

I caved too easily...didn't want to make a fuss. Or rather I did, but felt like it wouldn't be worth the trouble, and I didn't want to be the one to make a nasty situation out of it. I phoned a different local company who also distributes the product to get their opinion >>> perhaps unsurprisingly they said: " Yep, that's warranty issue. Contact the manufacturer."

So on that basis, I suspect you would have to kick up a major stink if you find yourself in a similar situation and think the retailer is going to come running to your assistance. It'll be presented that YOU are the unreasonable customer expecting THEM to do something they clearly don't (want) see as their responsibility.

Look at Longbow here, the retailer STILL fundamentally refuses to acknowledge they bear any responsibility or liability.
And Tim, who got what he wanted AFTER showing them the leglslation and the complaint he was ready to lodge. I can't help but wonder if Giant in fact only played nice, because the lbs told the Giant rep about the Cannondale fiasco and that Tim means business when it comes to honouring warranties.

[Tim]

And Tim, who got what he wanted AFTER showing them the leglslation and the complaint he was ready to lodge. I can't help but wonder if Giant in fact only played nice, because the lbs told the Giant rep about the Cannondale fiasco and that Tim means business when it comes to honouring warranties.

I think you might be right.
The shop staff all hide behind the counter when I walk in.
I suspect I have a PITA reputation. Oh well, my Mum still loves me.

[fat and old]

Different circumstance. 5YO TV vs a new item that arrived faulty. Sounds like you got great treatment from Samsung though!

Unbelievable treatment. Didn't even insist we buy another samsung. Just ponied up the store credit. Same TV is worth maybe 1.5k now new.