From back in the days when you could truly have a frameset for life without having to worry about whether it was going to crack. We are talking about commuters here, aren't we?Mobe1969 wrote:On_One in the uk also have some that are pretty customisable. Their frames however are steel. Which is so... 80's...
Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby Nobody » Fri May 27, 2011 8:52 am
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby Cy Borgk » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:19 pm
I've ridden the Alfine-8 for 2 years now and have nothing but praise for it. I was anxiously waiting for the 11 but honestly, I think Shimano missed an excellent opportunity to make some inroads as, in my view, they should have held the price. The 11 is priced out of the market and won't get much interest.
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby MattyK » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:06 pm
Nice first post, welcome. The 8 speed still exists, what are you complaining about? The 11 speed is significantly more complex and advanced, and is to there to take the challenge to the Rolhoff, which is still more than twice the price.Cy Borgk wrote:I've ridden the Alfine-8 for 2 years now and have nothing but praise for it. I was anxiously waiting for the 11 but honestly, I think Shimano missed an excellent opportunity to make some inroads as, in my view, they should have held the price. The 11 is priced out of the market and won't get much interest.
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby Cy Borgk » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:04 am
If Shimano think consumers will compare this to Roleff, they are sadly mistaken. People will compare it to traditional gearing that is far more affordable for what you get. They should cut their Alf-11 price in half and offer rebates to Alf-8 owners who would consider an upgrade. The untapped potential is the MTB market where hub gears have a distinct advantage... but Shimano needs to sharpen their marketing!
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby MattyK » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:38 am
I'm sure Shimano's marketing department is more developed than some guy who randomly turns up on a forum and contributes two posts to an old thread, complaining about their pricing...Cy Borgk wrote:If Shimano think consumers will compare this to Roleff, they are sadly mistaken. People will compare it to traditional gearing that is far more affordable for what you get. They should cut their Alf-11 price in half and offer rebates to Alf-8 owners who would consider an upgrade. The untapped potential is the MTB market where hub gears have a distinct advantage... but Shimano needs to sharpen their marketing!
I didn't say the SGS700 was comparable (functionally) to a Rohloff, but it will definitely be compared by those who find the Rohloff's pricetag difficult to justify.
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby Cy Borgk » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:18 pm
Mate, the proof's in the pudding... don't take it personally. What share of the MTB market do geared hubs enjoy? Yes, it's negligible despite being well suited. The price needs to come down to get interest up. Basic economics! As much as I love my Alf-8, I won't lay down the extra doe for a Alf-11... and I'm typical.
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby Biffidus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:35 pm
The price will drop over time.
The new avanti inc 3 with the alfine-8 will have a RRP of $1700 which is what people were paying for a comparable alfine-8 bike only a few years ago.
The new avanti inc 3 with the alfine-8 will have a RRP of $1700 which is what people were paying for a comparable alfine-8 bike only a few years ago.
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby il padrone » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:36 pm
The Alfine 11 does not have enough gear range (300%)to cut it in MTB. Rohloff is the only option that might do for MTB (526%). Some bikes have been made with Rohloff hubs - mostly high-end DH bikes with mid-mounted hubs using a transfer drive, to keep the weight at the rear to the minimum.Cy Borgk wrote:The untapped potential is the MTB market where hub gears have a distinct advantage... but Shimano needs to sharpen their marketing!
Mandatory helmet law?
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby Biffidus » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:03 pm
That's the alfine-8 (307%). The alfine-11 has 409% which is better, but I'm guessing still not great for MTB.il padrone wrote:The Alfine 11 does not have enough gear range (300%)to cut it in MTB. Rohloff is the only option that might do for MTB (526%). Some bikes have been made with Rohloff hubs - mostly high-end DH bikes with mid-mounted hubs using a transfer drive, to keep the weight at the rear to the minimum.
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby Xplora » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:09 pm
Gday to the forum... Hate to say it but much of the market for a hub gear is disasterously small when you consider that the BULK of the market won't even pay 260 bucks for a drivetrain, because that is more expensive than their entire bike. Aldi recently sold a ton of perfectly servicable BSOs for less than 250 bucks.
If the hub is sufficiently more awesome than the 8 speed, then it will sell. The Rohloff continues to sell despite costing as much as a high level derailleur groupset... I think you misunderstand the purpose of a business. They are there to make money, NOT supply you with products. Products are simply a means to the end of making money. Youthful denial of this basic fact will not earn favours except among those who also don't understand...
If the hub is sufficiently more awesome than the 8 speed, then it will sell. The Rohloff continues to sell despite costing as much as a high level derailleur groupset... I think you misunderstand the purpose of a business. They are there to make money, NOT supply you with products. Products are simply a means to the end of making money. Youthful denial of this basic fact will not earn favours except among those who also don't understand...
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Re: Shimano Alfine-11... Huh?
Postby MattyK » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:12 pm
I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about. What proof? What pudding?Cy Borgk wrote:Mate, the proof's in the pudding... don't take it personally. What share of the MTB market do geared hubs enjoy? Yes, it's negligible despite being well suited. The price needs to come down to get interest up. Basic economics! As much as I love my Alf-8, I won't lay down the extra doe for a Alf-11... and I'm typical.
You're asking the equivalent of Holden selling a V8 at a premium prive over the V6.
I have a Nexus hub and I can't justify the Alfine (8 or 11). But someone else might. Who is typical.
OK, over and out,
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