Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

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The 2nd Womble
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:38 pm

An Audi A6 costs more than a Maxima. Theres a reason for that. Price makes no difference to a Campy owner.




Unless they need a new Chorus/Record cassette :shock:
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby Jean » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:10 pm

biker jk wrote:Nice try but 105 can be purchased online from o/s for $541, Ultegra for $677 and Dura Ace for $1465. Campag is a a LOT more expensive.
No, all you've proved is that you can better PBK's prices by looking around - same for Campag. At Ribble Veloce is $476 and Centaur $566. Athena is comparable to your Ultegra price at $720, and Chorus can be had for $1145, and Record for $1645. No doubt further shopping would turn up better prices. Direct comparisons between the two brand's groupsets are moot, but the idea that Campag is more expensive is simply a hardy myth (with the exception of 11-speed cassettes and Super Record in general).

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby Daccordi Rider » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:59 pm

Thankyou Jean, my point exactly was to compare prices at one site to see if there is a difference, not trying to find the cheapest available. To say Campag is much more expensive than Shimano, like for like, is wrong. PBK is not the cheapest site but I think the comparisons are valid. Go to Ribbles (as suggested) and the same comparisons hold true.

By the way I would happily pay more for Campag, I've used both and the extra would be worth it if you did have to pay it.
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:03 pm

I still can't believe BMCProteam rode Di2 last year. Cadel always rode Campy till BMC didn't he?
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby Daccordi Rider » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:04 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:I still can't believe BMCProteam rode Di2 last year. Cadel always rode Campy till BMC didn't he?
Yep, how far would he have been ahead on decent gear? :lol:
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:10 pm

I know right?!
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby rkelsen » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:25 pm

biker jk wrote:Nice try but 105 can be purchased online from o/s for $541, Ultegra for $677 and Dura Ace for $1465.
From the Ribble link above:

Veloce = $476
Athena = $720
Record = $1,646

105 = $568
Ultegra = $887
Dura Ace = $1,756

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby biker jk » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:47 pm

rkelsen wrote:
biker jk wrote:Nice try but 105 can be purchased online from o/s for $541, Ultegra for $677 and Dura Ace for $1465.
From the Ribble link above:

Veloce = $476
Athena = $720
Record = $1,646

105 = $568
Ultegra = $887
Dura Ace = $1,756
From Bike 24 (generally the cheapest for groupsets) and comparing equivalent groupsets:

Athena EUR629.99
Chorus EUR974.99
Record EUR1379.99

105 EUR479.90
Ultegra EUR599.00
Dura Ace EUR 1299.00

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby rkelsen » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:24 pm

biker jk wrote:From Bike 24 (generally the cheapest for groupsets) and comparing equivalent groupsets
How can this be, if 4 of the 6 sets listed are cheaper at Ribble?

And 105 isn't equivalent to Athena. :lol:

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby ftssjk » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:35 pm

great read.

I now possess a little respect for campy riders..

still, i'm going to lean towards SRAM :)
mostly for the 'best bang for buck'.

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby gorilla monsoon » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:58 am

The 2nd Womble wrote:It's not the speed. It's the history, beauty, the emotion, pride, the engineering, and as said, Campy has soul. The others are just collections of stuff. Who has influenced what we all ride today more than these guys?
A Colnago without Campy is just another bike
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby biker jk » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:20 pm

rkelsen wrote:
biker jk wrote:From Bike 24 (generally the cheapest for groupsets) and comparing equivalent groupsets
How can this be, if 4 of the 6 sets listed are cheaper at Ribble?

And 105 isn't equivalent to Athena. :lol:
But Ribble is more expensive for Shimano. So let's find the cheapest prices online for Shimano and Campy (they don't need to be from the same seller) and then compare prices?

Your comment that "105 isn't equivalent to Athena" appears to suggest that when we find Campy is more expensive than Shimano it will be because we're not comparing equivalent groupsets. :roll:

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby drubie » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Athena is 11 speed - 105 is usually compared to (10 speed) Veloce and the pricing reflects that. However, it's all about how you do the comparison (weight? bearings? etc).

The Athena group probably replaces Centaur as the Ultegra equivalent - chorus being Ultegra SL, DA vs. Record. On pricing, depending on where you go they are roughly equivalent if you look at it like that.

Centaur is a little confusing as a group since Athena was released - I get the impression it's 10 speed replacement parts for those who have worn out 10 speed stuff but don't yet want to upgrade to 11. Makes it a bit hard to place in the normal comparisons.
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby MichaelB » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:45 pm

Printed the article, but haven't had time to read yet.

Since when did this become a pi$$ing comp re pricing and relative spec .....

This is becoming anothe M H L thread ..... :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll:

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby scotto » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:56 pm

MichaelB wrote:Printed the article, but haven't had time to read yet.

Since when did this become a pi$$ing comp re pricing and relative spec .....

This is becoming anothe M H L thread ..... :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll:
a big part of campy's survival could be seen as its competitiveness, to which pricing is a big 'component'.

having read tyhe article, i would be inclined to look for a campy grouppo next time, but i'd want to know what its compared to etc etc.


to coin a previous poster - i cant afford the audi A6, but dont want a nissan either !

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby bianchi928 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:15 pm

Great article familyguy, thanks for posting.

As an unashamed Campy lover, I really enjoyed reading it.

Cheers.
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby balap » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:30 pm

The 2nd Womble wrote:It's not the speed. It's the history, beauty, the emotion, pride, the engineering, and as said, Campy has soul. The others are just collections of stuff. Who has influenced what we all ride today more than these guys?
A Colnago without Campy is just another bike
Will it still have soul if the company is taken over by SRAM or Shimano?

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:12 pm

No. it'll be made by robots in Bangladesh.
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby Ken Ho » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:28 pm

balap wrote:
The 2nd Womble wrote:It's not the speed. It's the history, beauty, the emotion, pride, the engineering, and as said, Campy has soul. The others are just collections of stuff. Who has influenced what we all ride today more than these guys?
A Colnago without Campy is just another bike
Will it still have soul if the company is taken over by SRAM or Shimano?
Well, I just bought another Ducati, and it's as soulful as before the Yanks bought is out. Mind you, they were careful to leave design and passion in the hands ofthe Italians, and just tidied up the business model.
If Vampy were bought out by SRAM, fro example, it would depend on what they did with it. Just keeping the name and destroying everything else would destroy the sol, but it's possible Campy could emulate Ducati.
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby rkelsen » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:39 pm

biker jk wrote:But Ribble is more expensive for Shimano.
Check that 105 price again...
biker jk wrote:Your comment that "105 isn't equivalent to Athena" appears to suggest that when we find Campy is more expensive than Shimano it will be because we're not comparing equivalent groupsets.
It's nothing to do with price and everything to do with quality. 105 is approximately equivalent to Veloce.

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby notwal » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:17 pm

All things change. Campy is a carefully nurtured up market brand with a certain mystique.
Half the people who use it can't even pronounce the name correctly :D

I can't imagine it being taken over and "rationalised" without the brand taking a huge hit.
Remember all those famous British car marques that became nothing more than a badge.
That seems to be the fate of carefully nurtured up market brands that sell out or go broke.

Better buy your groupo now while it's still respectable, and maybe one of those retro Campy jerseys too, (or maybe the one that says "Campy's not gay") :lol:

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby notwal » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:32 pm

Ken Ho wrote:... Roberto Ricci Design sailboards.
No one pronounces that correctly either :lol:
I think it must be something like Rretchey. Certainly not Riki unless you Australise it properly and say something like "Kn oath. It's a bloody Riki mate".
Then it would be obvious that you couldn't possibly say anything that sounds like "Rretchey" without looking like a poofy winker and you would be forgiven.
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby high_tea » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:49 pm

rkelsen wrote:
biker jk wrote:But Ribble is more expensive for Shimano.
Check that 105 price again...
biker jk wrote:Your comment that "105 isn't equivalent to Athena" appears to suggest that when we find Campy is more expensive than Shimano it will be because we're not comparing equivalent groupsets.
It's nothing to do with price and everything to do with quality. 105 is approximately equivalent to Veloce.
They're a smaller company with smaller volumes and higher labour costs. The fact that approximately equivalent groupsets cost approximately the same is not good news for Campag's long-term survival. Nor is the fact that they're in a game of catch-up (more speeds, more electronics, more carbon) with ShimRAM with no apparent end in sight. I think they're better off competing in niche areas.

Better ergonomics is a bad sign too. Better ergonomics are a competitive advantage approximately zero percent of the time. Most consumers just do not care.

Nothing against Campag, some of their track stuff is fairly high on my wish list, but they need to rethink things. If they are competing directly with Shimano they're doomed.

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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby The 2nd Womble » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:02 pm

It will be inresting when Dura Ace Automatic systems hit the market. I hope they flop btw :|
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Re: Bicycling Mag article: Can Campagnolo Survive?

Postby rkelsen » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:52 pm

high_tea wrote:They're a smaller company with smaller volumes and higher labour costs.
And a customer base which is clamoring all over itself for their stuff...
high_tea wrote:The fact that approximately equivalent groupsets cost approximately the same is not good news for Campag's long-term survival.
Their premium set has no competitor, and is priced accordingly.
high_tea wrote:Better ergonomics is a bad sign too. Better ergonomics are a competitive advantage approximately zero percent of the time. Most consumers just do not care.
You're ignoring the fact that in the current marketplace, they can't make things fast enough. The demand for their product is a high as ever, and showing no sign of slowing.

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