Canyon Grail...those bars!

[fat and old]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any discussion on this

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/road/grail/

Those bars may be the comfiest thing since sliced bread. But how do you get around without wearing a Niqab? Seriously, it reminds me of those aberrations with suspension that were used in Paris Roubaix in the 90's.

[Scott_C]

Does anyone actually spend a significant fraction of their ride on the tops? I am always either on the hoods or the drops.

[human909]

Does anyone actually spend a significant fraction of their ride on the tops? I am always either on the hoods or the drops.

I spend a notable amount on the tops. Though from what I gather I also spend a much higher proportion on the drops than most.

For me:

Tops: More upright, for comfort and an expanded rib cage. Often used up hills. Also for better visibility.
Drops: For better aero and very importantly braking.
Hoods: An in between position that excels at neither of the above needs. For straight line riding this might be my dominant choice but if I'm going fast and want control and good emergency braking then I'm not getting out of the drops.

[Thoglette]

I'm surprised there hasn't been any discussion on this

There has, just it's over at Snobbies

His best insights

It is truly astounding the lengths (and heights) people will go to in order to attain the riding position of a Rivendell with a crabon bike:

And let's not forget the prescience of Sheldon Brown:

[AUbicycles]

Does anyone actually spend a significant fraction of their ride on the tops?

Yes... it is comfortable.

The Canyon bike is, in my view, not a Grail... (rarely is anything promoted as a grail and actual grail) but I get it Gravel + Trail = Grail. But Trail + Gravel = Travel which is the next iteration when they decide to remove the drops, go for a flat bar and add suspension forks to Gravel Bikes.

The problem I see is that there is a big fat bar in the way of the drops. Why bother having dropbars if they can't be used properly? The entire geometry changes as well. A gravel setup is not too far off a road bike - but here, the handlebars raise the entire front about 3 centimetres. To cap it off, while new ideas are welcome, the critical part of this is overcomplicating it and providing more limitations than a rider has today on a Gravel Bike with regular dropbars.

I think that when I reluctantly discuss it is a win for Canyon because they get people talking about the brand... attention!

[eeksll]

although IMO still ugly, this is a better implementation of the higher tops s-work aerofly

also the marketing material for the canyon thingo has something about more shock absorption of something like that.

[Zippy7]

I was interested to see this bike.
Especially the extra bar - I actually thought the lower bar could be quite handy.
I was thinking this would be great for commuting - chuck the lights and accessories onto the lower bar, out of the way.
However, since it's not clear if you can easily replace with a different length stem (and what cost?), and no apparent adjustability for the height (unclear if you can add or remove spacers?)
In any event, the limited appeal from the wider market might mean it's better to just buy a normal bike (an inflite perhaps).

[Jmuzz]

It is supposed to be shock absorbing and some rubbish about stiffness in the drops (which nobody has asked for ever).

What does it do that a flexible stem doesn't?
Besides weigh more, cost more (on a crash prone off-road bike), make adjustments impossible, make generic replacement at a local shop mid tour impossible, make standard accessory fitment impossible.

If it is amazing vs a flexible stem then maybe all worth it.
Can't imagine it being the case though.

[Jmuzz]

However, since it's not clear if you can easily replace with a different length stem (and what cost?), and no apparent adjustability for the height (unclear if you can add or remove spacers?)

OEM full unit only, a few sizes, though good luck in Australia and very good luck in a few years.

[Mububban]

I change gears A LOT so I always like to be on the hoods or drops. I only use the tops when on a long climb.

I'm usually a function over fashion kind of person, but even I can't stomach those bars

[hamishm]

Does anyone actually spend a significant fraction of their ride on the tops? I am always either on the hoods or the drops.

Yep I'm tops lots especially when I'm on 200k day. Don't need to be on the hoods and it's not so comfortable to be on the drops for 8 hours.

[Tim]

Does anyone actually spend a significant fraction of their ride on the tops? I am always either on the hoods or the drops.

Tops uphill.
Drops downhill, and fast.
Hoods for everything else.
Those bars look stupid.

[queequeg]

As I am about to receive my “Adventure Bike”, which is designed a “continent crusher” (IPWR, TCR etc), it is essentially a Gravel bike.
For my bar selection I looked at the trends around what works best for both Ultra Endurance, and also for riding on questionable road surfaces.
The main trend is for shallow drops and extreme flare of the drops.

My initial selection was the Ritchey WCS VentureMax bar, which has a 24 degree flare in the drops. The drop is only 102mm, and the reach is 76mm. The only two things I don’t like is the narrow round tops and the lack of a cable channel.

While I was having my bike fit done, I showed the fitter the bars so he could advise me what stem lengths to get, then he showed me the new 3T SuperGhiaia bars



The 3T bar has similar reach and drop to the Ritchey Bar, but has ergo tops and internal cable routing. So, I have gone with the 3t bar, which also keeps the shifters straight, rather than sweeping them outwards like the VentureMax

[fat and old]

I noticed a Roompot rider in Gent Wevelgem using something like those. Incredibly narrow, huge flare to the drops and really wide flair to the levers, like 25 degrees. Really narrow across the top actually.

[lone rider]

I thought one piece bar and stem was stupid because you cant roatate them but this is just next level stupid.

[queequeg]

I thought one piece bar and stem was stupid because you cant roatate them but this is just next level stupid.

I find it odd too. My bike fitter was also saying that if you need more height on the bar but still want a slammed stem, or you simply have run out of steerer and need more height, there are bars that already do this. Think S-Works Aerofly, that has a built in 25mm rise

[baabaa]

As most people who use these sort of bikes will tend towards the use some sort of frame, handlebar or saddle bag I am not sure I would want to lose the metal handlebar option over even with the most beefy of carbon handlebars.

All my bikes, even with a very small feed bag attached (and I see you cant use any of these very handy stem/cockpit bags with the canyon set up) seem hard wired to just want to and have to fall over when left leaning against a tree, wall or anything they are not bolted onto if they have any sort of bag attached to them even when empty.
A full frame bag is like a spinnaker. The bigger the load the harder they fall and unless you have a full load, you don't always think to just lie your bike down.

[hamishm]

main trend is for shallow drops and extreme flare of the drops.

What's the thinking behind the flare?

I usually associate it with hipster fixie bikes but there must be a good reason if it's popular with the ultra endurance riders.

[queequeg]

main trend is for shallow drops and extreme flare of the drops.

What's the thinking behind the flare?

I usually associate it with hipster fixie bikes but there must be a good reason if it's popular with the ultra endurance riders.

The flare is for two reasons. The first is it gives you a wider grip to get a bit more control on loose surfaces (combined with the shallow drop). Secondly, the resulting wider measurements from the bar ends means you can fit a handlebar bag without the bag affecting the use of the drops.

There are quite a few variations. The ones I looked at were the Ritchey VentureMax, the On-One Midge, the Salsa Cowchipper, and the Easton AX.

However, as soon as I saw that 3T had released their take on the gravel bar, I ordered them. The reach is pretty much identical to the 3T Ergonova, which is my bar of choice on my two main bikes. It retains the Ergo egg shaped tops, which with my large hands are perfect. In addition, the 3T bar has internal cable routing, so I don't get the bump under the tape. My Ergonova Pro's have an external cable channel underneath, but you still get the cable bumps on the inside & outside of the bars where they exit the shifters. That will be gone with the Superghiaia bars.

[baabaa]

...must be a good reason if it's popular with the ultra endurance riders.

Are they? I think / thought most of the ultra crowd (thinking Ride the Divide and RAAM) just use tri bars on a pretty bog standard drop with little flare, RTD types do go wider but also go flat or risers with tri bars.
I wouldn't be keen to use them ( the off road/ dirt drop type) for any of ultra endurance events even if I can only dream of doing them. Seems to me that to get any of the true off road types working well they need a stem with a lot of rise and then some more. They need to sit where you would think a normal riser bar would or should be or else it is not worth the bother. The ultra peoples do like some sort of aero when on the road and stretch out when on good dirt single or double track without rim busting rocks.
While not really ultra I guess do go touring with my set up, but I have done the old convict 100s with the same and that includes some downhills which are pretty tech so to save the teeth you just go very slow and even get off and walk.

Any time I have tried midge bars or woodchippers with a stem of say + 6 degree rise or less they feel like rubbish on gravel and just don't work. Think around + 17 or even better 30 to get them up high. To me I like the leverage they offer both on and off the tar, you also get them right and with the balance they make riding long up hills in the drops really quite pleasant.



Anyway CX bars which have a bit of flare and short drop have been around for ages and gravel biking is just a new term for what the shearers did 100 years ago but without the flair.....
Here is my I-be-no-ultra-bike on one of the better local roads showing off the flares from behind

[hamishm]

Anyway CX bars which have a bit of flare and short drop have been around for ages and gravel biking is just a new term for what the shearers did 100 years ago but without the flair.....
Here is my I-be-no-ultra-bike on one of the better local roads showing off the flares from behind

So what's your reason for all this flair? Assuming you're not just a hipster fixie rider.

[Jawa]

I mentioned this elsewhere but the engineering on those bars is something you would expect from Cannondale in the 90’s … and that’s not a good thing. I just can’t see these taking off and yes, I get the whole “you should ride before you judge” talk, blah blah blah. There ugly as sin and not something I’d be willing to part my cash with

[madmacca]

Anyway CX bars which have a bit of flare and short drop have been around for ages and gravel biking is just a new term for what the shearers did 100 years ago but without the flair.....
Here is my I-be-no-ultra-bike on one of the better local roads showing off the flares from behind

So what's your reason for all this flair? Assuming you're not just a hipster fixie rider.

15 degrees of flair is the bare minimum. Brian, for example, has 37 degrees of flair.

[queequeg]

...must be a good reason if it's popular with the ultra endurance riders.

Are they? I think / thought most of the ultra crowd (thinking Ride the Divide and RAAM) just use tri bars on a pretty bog standard drop with little flare, RTD types do go wider but also go flat or risers with tri bars.
I wouldn't be keen to use them ( the off road/ dirt drop type) for any of ultra endurance events even if I can only dream of doing them.

If I were to do any ultra endurance (multi-day on nothing but sealed roads), I'd most likely revert to the standard road bar and add some clip-ons, then redo the bike fit to cater for the aero bars.
For what I plan to use the bike for at the moment, I thought I would try something different. If it doesn't work for me, I can always change it

[hamishm]

15 degrees of flair is the bare minimum. Brian, for example, has 37 degrees of flair.

It was only a matter of time.