Super Magnesium - the next bike frame material?

[Mububban]

Debuted at Interbike 2018. Time will tell whether or not we see this material make its way into bike manufacturing. Sounds pretty nifty.

It will be a couple years at least before we see mountain bike frames made from Super Magnesium, but early prototypes seem to indicate it’s on the horizon. Pricing for a Super Magnesium bike will likely come in above aluminum, but less than carbon fiber.

Allite has three different alloys, one that's designed to be welded, one that's best suited for casting, and another that's meant for forging. That means it could be used for rocker links, stems, or even a complete frame. Given the myriad of potential applications for Super Magnesium in the bike world it'll be interesting to see which, if any, manufacturers decide to give it a try.

The cost of a complete frame constructed from the material will be more expensive than aluminum, but still less expensive than carbon, and as an added bonus it can be recycled at the end of its lifespan.

https://gearjunkie.com/allite-super-magnesium

Just launched in the consumer world today, Allite Super Magnesium is a proprietary alloy created with magnesium and rare earth elements.

Originally developed for classified, military use, the material is 33% lighter than aluminum. Not only is it lightweight, the material is said to be more environmentally-friendly than either carbon or aluminum.

It claims Super Magnesium is all of the following: 50 percent lighter than titanium, 56 percent stronger than grade-one titanium, 20 times more shock-absorbing than aluminum, 21 percent stronger than 6061 aluminum, and 75 percent lighter than steel.

The resulting material weighs just 1.83 grams per cubic centimeter. It’s the lightest of all structural metals.

“It will be positioned at comparable pricing with aluminum,” Kristiansen said. “Less expensive than carbon fiber.”

Magnesium has been used regularly in the bike industry for frames, rims and for most suspension fork legs. But Allite said its material is more versatile, allowing it to accommodate various manufacturing processes including forging, extruding, die casting and welding, and it can be finished in a number of ways.

Its capacity to dampen vibrations is about 20 times higher than aluminum and it absorbs vibrations more or less on the level of carbon.

Cost-wise, Allite's alloy will be about 50 percent less expensive than carbon and on par with aluminum. Maier said Allite can work with OEs to manufacture finished product or deliver raw material and consult on the manufacturing process.

[find_bruce]

Has it really been 16 years since Merida brought out their magnesium frames - all of which failed, mostly fatigue cracks before corrosion could set in.

[duncanm]

probably better off reading the metal manufacturer's blurbs:
https://alliteinc.com/super-magnesium/

[Jmuzz]

There are already heaps of Mg alloys and hundreds of variations with different tempering etc, so who knows if this is actually new and suitable or just a marketing attempt. "Super Magnesium" is a gimmicky name though.

The real world test is to show it in bike frames/parts, what is final weight, how does it fatigue.
What is the cost of working with it.

Importantly is it available in China/Taiwan because it kills it if it has to be imported from a single supplier I in more expensive counties. Manufacturers won't put themselves at the mercy of a single supplier when there are lots of open standards.

[AUbicycles]

For my own interest in the material qualities, google gave me this:

At 1.8g/cm3 magnesium is the lightest of all structural materials, the 8th most abundant element on earth and 100% recyclable. It delivers: The best strength-to-weight ratio of any commonly used structural metal. Excellent dimensional stability as well as high impact and dent resistance.

We have strong and light. It suggests a high resistance though I have two questions - is is like steel where a damaged tube / section retails most of its strength and what about flex? Comfort is important in frame design and a perfectly rigid bike is uncomfortable. Certainly interested whether it is viable.

[Mububban]

...and what about flex? Comfort is important in frame design and a perfectly rigid bike is uncomfortable. Certainly interested whether it is viable.

If you believe the company's claims:

Kristiansen explained that Allite can customize the metal for welding, casting, and forging. But it goes beyond the manufacturing process and can tailor the material to have desired properties for unique uses.

It does this by aligning the magnesium crystals just so in order to attain properties such as vibration dampening.

“We can orientate the crystals in the magnesium for the specific forces, down to microstructure,” Kristiansen said.

He added that for some uses where durability or other properties are key, the brand offers a process called plasma electrolytic oxidation. This process results in a coating on the metal to increase the metal’s electrical insulation as well as resistance to wear, heat, and corrosion.

The brand will work with clients from product inception through engineering to complete production, resulting in a finished component.

“Materials and production engineers work hand-in-hand with the client,” he said. “We are a full-service manufacturer. In most cases, we manufacture for the client.”

The company already has a large facility in China for extrusion, forging, and welding. It also has a business and engineering team in the United States.

Let's see what Interbike 2020 has on display

[fat and old]

what about flex? Comfort is important in frame design and a perfectly rigid bike is uncomfortable.

I remember a test by Ride (iirc) on a Mag bike (pretty sure it was a Merida). They tested it by holding it at the H/T and D/O then pushing the B.B. away from them with their boot. It flexed like spaghetti . I believe it lost marks for that

[Mububban]

I remember a test by Ride (iirc) on a Mag bike (pretty sure it was a Merida). They tested it by holding it at the H/T and D/O then pushing the B.B. away from them with their boot. It flexed like spaghetti . I believe it lost marks for that

Yeah that's probably a bit too much flex . What year was that?

This alloy blend has apparently been exclusively used by the military for 10 years before making its way into the civilian world so that's probably been a decent testbed.

[bychosis]

It will gain points if it is more recyclable than carbon.

[fat and old]

I remember a test by Ride (iirc) on a Mag bike (pretty sure it was a Merida). They tested it by holding it at the H/T and D/O then pushing the B.B. away from them with their boot. It flexed like spaghetti . I believe it lost marks for that

Yeah that's probably a bit too much flex . What year was that?

This alloy blend has apparently been exclusively used by the military for 10 years before making its way into the civilian world so that's probably been a decent testbed.

Can't exactly remember, but it would have been early 2000's.

[P!N20]

I remember a test by Ride (iirc) on a Mag bike (pretty sure it was a Merida). They tested it by holding it at the H/T and D/O then pushing the B.B. away from them with their boot. It flexed like spaghetti . I believe it lost marks for that

That's interesting. The only criticisms towards the Pinarello FPX was that it was too stiff.

[hunch]

There was some mention of it last month on one of the metalworking arenas. There does seem to be lots of announcements regarding the material, last one I recall here was something about a new process that Ford were championing. The facility was to be in Qld...but since Joe and Tony had their wicked way, expect that's disappeared without a trace.

Seem to remember an Israeli bicycle manufacturer flogging mag bikes on ebay about 10 years ago - wonder if they're still around? Also remember an F1 engineer being quoted as saying magnesium was about as useful as cheese for most of their tasks.....and citing throwing away wheels virtually every couple of races as one example.

A forged mag bike would be pretty cool though and maybe address the shortcomings of a fabricated tube type! Jets of civilian and military flavour of recent decades have a fair few components made that way, in mag and more exotic materials. Getting access to a large press might be troubling, but the Chinese have, or are about to commission the world's largest I understand.

https://boingboing.net/2012/02/13/machines.html

[P!N20]

Seem to remember an Israeli bicycle manufacturer flogging mag bikes on ebay about 10 years ago - wonder if they're still around?

Segal. How's your Hebrew? http://www.segalbikes.com/

[eeksll]

It will gain points if it is more recyclable than carbon.

my presumption is that alloy and steel bikes are not currently being recycled for their raw materials. I could be wrong.

So I doubt magnesium bikes would be recycled even if they could be.

Please point me to the right direction if I am wrong, in particular bike chains, I churn through these and I would make me feel a bit better if I could find a place that will actually recycle them.

[MichaelB]

At the end of the day, even if it is good, it has to be commercially viable for it to even be considered. Unless it clears that hurdle, it aint going anywhere .

And that is if the other guff is all true and correct. And we know, no-one omits any information ....

[fat and old]

It will gain points if it is more recyclable than carbon.

my presumption is that alloy and steel bikes are not currently being recycled for their raw materials. I could be wrong.

So I doubt magnesium bikes would be recycled even if they could be.

Please point me to the right direction if I am wrong, in particular bike chains, I churn through these and I would make me feel a bit better if I could find a place that will actually recycle them.

We have a steel waste bin at wrk where all of that stuff goes. If your local tip is a transfer station, it will have seperatee bins for steel, paper plastics etc. These days there's more of those in cities than old style landfill. The people that get the contracts to do this at tips make a good $$ out of it. We get aropund $1,200 per bin, 15-20 times per year. Break up function paid for.

[human909]

Please point me to the right direction if I am wrong, in particular bike chains, I churn through these and I would make me feel a bit better if I could find a place that will actually recycle them.

Metals are among the easiest items to recycle and we have been doing it for many decades. Back in the 80s where I grew up we could locally recycle aluminium. Kids used to collect aluminium cans for the cash. An aluminium bike frame is just bigger.

Your local scrap metal recycles will happily take aluminium, steel and most other common metals. Aka pretty much most of you bike.

[madmacca]

What I want to see is Tour magazine repeating their "drag disc brakes all the way down a mountain descent" with a heavily weighted magnesium frame.

Ahh, memories of high school chemistry labs....

[WyvernRH]

Way back in the mists of time, well sometime in the 1980's, Kirk Engineering brought out a magnesium bicycle with a cast frame IIRC.

I actually had a go on one of these for a day or so as I knew someone who was thinking of selling them. Rode just like a normal quality steel frame basically but was pretty expensive and if you broke it in any way then it was new frame time. I do know they had corrosion problems in the UK but whether that was due to manufacturing problems or the volatile nature of the alloy I don't know.
I was always a little suspect of the longivity of the fatigue life of these frames, magnesium being worse than aluminium in fatigue tests. But that what alloys are for I suppose.

Also possibly the first SteamPunk bicycle in appearance. You either loved them or hated them.

Any survivors out there? i wouldn't mind getting my hands on one again.

Richard

[human909]

There are plenty of 'super' metals out there with material properties generally much better than the run of the mill stuff we see on bikes including carbon. Generally though cost is prohibitive.

[ldrcycles]

What I want to see is Tour magazine repeating their "drag disc brakes all the way down a mountain descent" with a heavily weighted magnesium frame.

Ahh, memories of high school chemistry labs....

I remember back in the early 90s there was a company that made magnesium computer casings for a short time (or something along those lines, memory is a bit vague), someone wanted to set fire to one for a magazine article about their demise and had a hell of a time getting it to light as the alloy used was specifically intended to resist ignition.

[Mububban]

What I want to see is Tour magazine repeating their "drag disc brakes all the way down a mountain descent" with a heavily weighted magnesium frame.  

Ahh, memories of high school chemistry labs….

Haha, this stuff is supposed to melt rather than catch on fire

There are plenty of 'super' metals out there with material properties generally much better than the run of the mill stuff we see on bikes including carbon. Generally though cost is prohibitive.

According to the source:

“It will be positioned at comparable pricing with aluminum,” Kristiansen said. “Less expensive than carbon fiber.”

[Calvin27]

50 percent lighter than titanium, 56 percent stronger than grade-one titanium, 20 times more shock-absorbing than aluminum, 21 percent stronger than 6061 aluminum, and 75 percent lighter than steel

I wish they'd give me decent tech specs. 56 stronger than titanium could refer to anything. Also some hardness and fatigue properties wouldn't hurt (I assume all the strength refers to tensile).

I'd be interested in the fatigue properties. If it's aerospace stuff like they say it should be good.

[Velt]

50 percent lighter than titanium, 56 percent stronger than grade-one titanium, 20 times more shock-absorbing than aluminum, 21 percent stronger than 6061 aluminum, and 75 percent lighter than steel

I wish they'd give me decent tech specs. 56 stronger than titanium could refer to anything. Also some hardness and fatigue properties wouldn't hurt (I assume all the strength refers to tensile).

I'd be interested in the fatigue properties. If it's aerospace stuff like they say it should be good.

They have some data on their website https://alliteinc.com/super-magnesium/

[human909]

According to the source:

“It will be positioned at comparable pricing with aluminum,” Kristiansen said. “Less expensive than carbon fiber.”

LOL! And pigs will fly. Aluminium alloy is cheap as chips and not a trademarked propriety alloy.

ALLITE® SUPER MAGNESIUM as the name gives away is a proprietry alloy that most likely has a large component of the more expensive magnesium in it. Also claimed is "all have content of rare earth elements". None of that sounds cheap.

And even if they can produce it at reasonable cost why would they price it at the same as run of the mill aluminium? If you have a niche product you charge a premium.

The whole thing is a puff piece that is all about advertising and nothing about actual material engineering.