Overzealous Police

[snortin]

So a guy from work was riding the northern beaches (Barrenjoey Road near Mona Vale) at 5am this morning. VERY little traffic, except for the highway patrol car that pulled in behind them and put his flashing lights on.... (you can guess what is coming next). Cop stopped them and gave their bikes a "full check", also asked for ID. They hadn't given him any "reason" to stop them.

They were riding according to road rules (not running reds, 2 abreast in the closest of 3 lanes to the footpath) had helmets, lights etc - but no bell (not sure how useful it would be on that road anyway). $106 fine each (he was with his dad). Cop said they were lucky he didn't give them a fine for no ID (yes I know it is not law yet, but didn't stop this guy threatening them with it).

unbelievable. wish this guy would escort me into work - he would be able to nail at least 10 cars a day driving illegally in the bus lane, plus a whole heap of other infringements.

[familyguy]

Ombudsman, NSW Police FB, any social media...

Nobody pays attention to enforceable laws now, only popular opinion. Hit them on those platforms and they might actually respond.

[Nate]

Utterly disgusting... and illegal...
i'm not surprised at all though.

The police do NOT have the powers to just stop & search a vehicle - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... ra2002451/
its an abuse of power.

He needs to challenge it, take it to court.
He also needs to make a formal complaint against the officers involved & their conduct.

I've had interactions with beaches police (Frenchs Forest & the matters typically go to traffic at DY i believe) & they have all been utterly disgraceful.
More than happy to assist your mate - pm sent.

[familyguy]

But the powers to stop and inspect a suspected defective vehicle exist, do they not? Yes, I use the terms 'suspected defective' advisedly in this context. There is no defence for a pure exercise in picking on VRU.

This would be the only argument I could see anyone mounting against said stop.

Jim

[trailgumby]

This is when Fly6/12 comes in handy.

[bicycle_rider]

So a guy from work was riding the northern beaches (Barrenjoey Road near Mona Vale) at 5am this morning. VERY little traffic, except for the highway patrol car that pulled in behind them and put his flashing lights on.... (you can guess what is coming next). Cop stopped them and gave their bikes a "full check", also asked for ID. They hadn't given him any "reason" to stop them.

They were riding according to road rules (not running reds, 2 abreast in the closest of 3 lanes to the footpath) had helmets, lights etc - but no bell (not sure how useful it would be on that road anyway). $106 fine each (he was with his dad). Cop said they were lucky he didn't give them a fine for no ID (yes I know it is not law yet, but didn't stop this guy threatening them with it).

unbelievable. wish this guy would escort me into work - he would be able to nail at least 10 cars a day driving illegally in the bus lane, plus a whole heap of other infringements.

Hi Snortin, I would love to try and help you with this, could you please send me a PM? I can't send one to you. Thank you

[AUbicycles]

Cop stopped them and gave their bikes a "full check", also asked for ID. They hadn't given him any "reason" to stop them.

MP Duncan Gay has publicly stated (I have a letter) that bike riders won't be stopped in this manner to check their ID. It would only be requested if they are observed as being in breach of the law.

Of course the ID is not required yet however there is also some ambiguity with regard to the rights of the police to request the ID from a citizen (which suggests that rules to specifically target bike riders are unnecessary). In this case, the officer should not have challenged or requested ID unless they identified a traffic infringement - the bells are however as it is not mandatory to have ID yet, then it would not be a fine (or threat) if it wasn't handy.

This may be part of the police campaign that requires them to specifically target bike riders. In my experience, the police on the northern beaches are typically very good when it comes to cyclists - they have to deal with the aftermath of tragedy and would prefer that this doesn't happen - and also recognise the steady numbers of cyclists and push actively for safe infrastructure.


Not a nice situation... and just means ensure the bikes are compliant and deciding whether to take action to improve the rights and conditions for bike riders on NSW roads.

[Nate]

But the powers to stop and inspect a suspected defective vehicle exist, do they not? Yes, I use the terms 'suspected defective' advisedly in this context. There is no defence for a pure exercise in picking on VRU.
This would be the only argument I could see anyone mounting against said stop.
Jim

yeah exactly - but it must be REASONABLE.
is it reasonable for police to be able to see through the person & see a bell on their handlebars? ummm no

Can police stop every single car just in case the front windscreen doesnt conform to safety & marked accordingly? nup...
This is just plain abuse & harassment, you must stand up to this & call it out.

[familyguy]

I absolutely cannot argue that it's an unwarranted stop in this case. I believe that is the argument which will be mounted by the NSWPD when escalated, however poorly applied, as you rightly point out.

Nobody could see my bell/s from in front or behind, and vehicular defects are far easier to see, which just lends weight to your point of non-justification. It is the vehicle manufacturers conform to ADR and AS, it is not the end users role to comply with these. Just as bikes are to be sold new with wheel reflectors, a rear reflector and a bell, what a user does after sale, providing you don't make it un-roadworthy, is a whole other ball game. Would the windscreen comparison be more akin to stopping a car that was suspected of missing a windscreen entirely? But this would be rather obvious and a no-brainer. To apply this, the officer/s would have to have clearly seen that the bell is not in place to justify the stop, which has NOT been proven to have happened here.

I do agree this one should be fought. I also have an interest in that this area is my local ride route, too. Any baseless targeting of riders is a concern.

Jim

[hunch]

Probably need it in writing from our other friend in the National Party, Grant.

In the old days, it was common for police to stop motorcycle riders for no reason, do a license check, then try to find defects, hopefully we're not returning to those days....and then they brought in RBT to legitamize random stops.

[familyguy]

^ that.

Or do what happens with 'hoon drivers'. Announce a target date for defects, set up inspections, and see who is silly enough to drive past.

[bychosis]

^ that.

Or do what happens with 'hoon drivers'. Announce a target date for defects, set up inspections, and see who is silly enough to drive past.

To encourage compliance maybe they should be issuing a warning first, with 7 days to fit a bell and present to the local police station. I'm sure there are plenty of riders out there that aware of the bell rule, but not of the dollar value of the fine. One warning on the record, and next time you cop the fine. Either that, or only ping you if you are riding on a path without the bell because it is ineffective on the roads.

Would make for better community relations.

[familyguy]

They 'give notice' of crackdowns like Pedro. But a lot more can happen to be smart about the laws, yes.

Jim

[gorilla monsoon]

It goes the other way, too.
Yesterday morning on my regular ride I had a low-speed, front-end wash-out and went down like a sack of spuds. While I was laying there, checking to make sure everything moved, wiggled and wasn't bleeding, a Highway Patrol car drove past.
By my reckoning on timing The officer must have seen me go down but didn't stop to render assistance or even ask if I had been struck by another vehicle, s/he just carried-on, as did every other driver on that road.
Why do they wonder why we have no respect for them?

[SmellyTofu]

They've got quotas to meet. Can't stop, chasing bonuses.