PSP Speed Limit

softy
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby softy » Mon May 30, 2016 4:48 pm

I still maintain this is another knee jerk reaction,

No one has demonstrated proof or a study that these Shared paths are that dangerous to warrant change. How many cyclists are hitting pedestrian in relation to total commutes? Agreed that passing speeds maybe considerable, but really is this actually resulting in many accidents/incidents occurring?

I have heard of hardly any, maybe I am wrong, But would tend to think collisions are very rare. Maybe this whole, shared paths are dangerous (which have been around for years without problems) is just a storm in a tea cup.

NASHIE
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby NASHIE » Mon May 30, 2016 5:05 pm

Im guessing some politicians wife or friends are sick of being buzzed on their morning walks. Take outcomes out of it, and its similar to bike riders moaning about cars passing to close. Its not necessarily that incidents are occurring, it just not nice having a bike skim you at 40kph while you trying to have a relaxed walk along the foreshore. The mad bell ringing (get out of my way) some riders try on worsens the issue IMO. I think we all agree speed limits will not prevent this and separate paths like South Perth etc are the only real solution to this issue into the future

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bychosis
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby bychosis » Mon May 30, 2016 7:03 pm

Does this potentially come down to our somewhat ridiculous method of making a law for it when it could be sorted out with PROPER education? Think NSW :roll:
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

NASHIE
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby NASHIE » Mon May 30, 2016 7:56 pm

bychosis wrote:Does this potentially come down to our somewhat ridiculous method of making a law for it when it could be sorted out with PROPER education? Think NSW :roll:
Absolutely, I'm sure a few hours of weekend police bike patrols pulling up groups riding double file, bombing past peds and other paths users etc wouldn't hurt. No need to hand out fines, just put the message out there for riders to pull their heads in.

cj7hawk
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby cj7hawk » Mon May 30, 2016 9:24 pm

NASHIE wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:
First, we're not talking "Speed limits around pedestrians" - We're talking blanket speed limits without pedestrians.
The news article is about speed limits around peds, so thanks what I'm talking about.
Oh... Can you post a link to it at all?

I suspect they might be equating "around peds" as "on a path" though -

David.

nachoman
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby nachoman » Tue May 31, 2016 1:23 pm

Tune in tonight, 9 News has the radar detector out:
facebook video link

NASHIE
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby NASHIE » Tue May 31, 2016 5:16 pm

cj7hawk wrote:
Oh... Can you post a link to it at all?
4th post in the first page of this thread David

I think a lot of you guys are commuters ? would be interested to know your average commute kph are. Not downhill tailwind etc but just your average 'solo' no rush get to work with a nice fresh smile on your face type average :wink:

FWIW my average for a take it easy not to hot and sweaty 60k river loop is 30kph.......note: always slowing for peds down to walking pace if oncoming riders and never group riding on a PSP, so a 30kph max speed limit works fine for me

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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby 방구 똥 » Tue May 31, 2016 6:05 pm

NASHIE wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:
Oh... Can you post a link to it at all?
4th post in the first page of this thread David

I think a lot of you guys are commuters ? would be interested to know your average commute kph are. Not downhill tailwind etc but just your average 'solo' no rush get to work with a nice fresh smile on your face type average :wink:

FWIW my average for a take it easy not to hot and sweaty 60k river loop is 30kph.......note: always slowing for peds down to walking pace if oncoming riders and never group riding on a PSP, so a 30kph max speed limit works fine for me
I'm a commuter who is always in a rush with a nice fresh smile. Average maybe around 28km/h?

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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby 방구 똥 » Tue May 31, 2016 6:13 pm

nachoman wrote:Tune in tonight, 9 News has the radar detector out:
facebook video link
I don't have a TV, will they put it online?
Image

Wezz
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby Wezz » Tue May 31, 2016 7:13 pm

NASHIE wrote: FWIW my average for a take it easy not to hot and sweaty 60k river loop is 30kph.......note: always slowing for peds down to walking pace if oncoming riders and never group riding on a PSP, so a 30kph max speed limit works fine for me
I averaged ~28km/h for a river loop few weeks back and looking at my strava I was sitting at ~35km/h on the flats to make up for the stops at intersections, hills, etc. It is quite easy to average 35km/h on this section in my opinion.

I think the whole idea of a speed limit is un-necessary. You'll never please everybody. I used to ride this way for last couple of years to work and never had any problems/issues with pedestrians. I used to do this run quite often to the city and back and never had any issues as a pedestrian either.

NASHIE
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby NASHIE » Tue May 31, 2016 7:29 pm

I hear what saying, I have very few stops on my loop and do hit the road for about 10k. Again I'm not for speed limits, and 35kph can be safely done 'solo' on many sections. 40kph you should be on the road. Also I think the angst is Sat/Sundays not particularly weekday commutes

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nickobec
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby nickobec » Tue May 31, 2016 7:41 pm

NASHIE wrote:I think a lot of you guys are commuters ? would be interested to know your average commute kph are. Not downhill tailwind etc but just your average 'solo' no rush get to work with a nice fresh smile on your face type average
Depends mine varies due to weather, fatigue, bike (TT, race, training, singlespeed etc) what training sessions I am doing (I combine my 40km commute with training).

If I look at the average speed over the life on my bikes it is close to 30kph (thanks to veloviewer for that stat), which covers my commuting/training rides, weekend rides, racing and plenty of tottling around. But would of said 30kph average.

I then looked a the stretch of PSP that is the issue here Canning Bridge to Narrows. Note I have ridden it over 400 times according to Strava. I do use it for interval training at times due to good surface, good line of sight, low traffic (on weekdays) and I can empty my tank as I am close to work.

40kph+ 7%
35 to 40kph 30%
30 to 35kph 45%
25 to 30kph 17%
below 25kph 1%
and median speed 33.1kph

edited never had issues with pedestrians in that direction, a couple of joggers did turn right and cross the pass without looking, when coming of the narriows, even after ringing bell.

softy
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby softy » Tue May 31, 2016 8:35 pm

You actually don't get that many walkers on this section compared to other PSPs and RSPs the one near the Burswood south river side has a much higher percentage of walkers.

Also what they forgot to mention is there is a number of pedestrian dedicated paths along that stretch, yes I know, not all the way along, but most are just after beach access.

So as said before, I haven't really seen a problem in this area. Yes maybe other PSPs RSPs at different locations.

Picking this PSP, I think they may of just been desperate for a story.

cj7hawk
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby cj7hawk » Tue May 31, 2016 8:37 pm

I average about 20 to 24 kph, typically around 22kph on a commute, but to achieve that, I'll hit peaks of around 35kph at times. Normally, I'll ride between 25 and 30 kph with assistance.

Not very fast at all, and a low blanket speed limit would stop me commuting. It's just not worth the trouble and the roads are too unsafe.

David.

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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby 방구 똥 » Tue May 31, 2016 9:10 pm

Had a few pedestrians tonight wearing all black walking 2 abreast :D

NASHIE
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby NASHIE » Tue May 31, 2016 9:30 pm

softy wrote:You actually don't get that many walkers on this section compared to other PSPs and RSPs the one near the Burswood south river side has a much higher percentage of walkers.

Also what they forgot to mention is there is a number of pedestrian dedicated paths along that stretch, yes I know, not all the way along, but most are just after beach access.

So as said before, I haven't really seen a problem in this area. Yes maybe other PSPs RSPs at different locations.

Picking this PSP, I think they may of just been desperate for a story.
I agree that this stretch isn't really a major issue, and just an easy spot to zap a few speed readings.

Personally i don't and don't think doing intervals, setting strava times i.e. 40-50kph etc on any PSP is appropriate, but appreciate that during commuting times with mainly one way traffic and few peds there is probably not an issue.

Missed tonight's 9 news...any tech savvy people able to throw up a link ?
Cheers

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nickobec
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby nickobec » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:40 am

NASHIE wrote:Personally i don't and don't think doing intervals, setting strava times i.e. 40-50kph etc on any PSP is appropriate, but appreciate that during commuting times with mainly one way traffic and few peds there is probably not an issue.
I respectfully disagree, the PSP south of Cockburn Central is probably the best place in Perth to do interval training. Where else can you ride up to 60 (currently only 55) kilometres without a intersection, no motor vehicle traffic, few cyclists, the rare pedestrian if any, with good surface, good line of sight and very few entry points for cyclists or pedestrian.

I ride to the conditions, I would never contemplate doing an interval on a weekend or on the PSP between Mt Henry and Canning Bridge. I do that on the Esplanade, but it is safer in my opinion to do it on the PSP between Canning and Narrows.

You just need to be very aware of your surroundings and be willing to make adjustments to your plan, including abandoning if conditions require it. ie too much traffic

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:32 pm

abas wrote:Excellent, Thankyou for your very detailed explanation. 20kph is fine as I was slower than this when my accident occurred. For some reason I thought 10kph was the limit and that would be ridiculous but then I read the recent legislation update that allowed powered bikes up to 25 kph on the paths so I started thinking it must be faster.

Thankyou again for your prompt and detailed response...even with the appropriate disclaimer, which I expected anyway.

Alan
10! Even I ride faster than that. And joggers pass me.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle

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rolandp
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby rolandp » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:12 pm

From the Cycling section of 2016 Transport Plan:
2.6.1 Principal Shared Paths PSPs will continue to form the backbone of Perth’s cycling network. Considered as “freeways for bikes” these routes serve high order, interregional movement purposes. They should be of high standard, with minimal horizontal or vertical curvature. In terms of their built form, PSPs should ideally be of at least 3.5m in width and grade separated at all intersecting roads/railways. Wherever possible, separation should be provided between pedestrians and cyclists.

So the correct answer is 'freeway speeds'. I wonder if those who wrote this section of the document understood what 's' in 'PSP' stands for? Whilst they remain as 'PSP', remember to ride to the conditions.

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g-boaf
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Re: PSP Speed Limit

Postby g-boaf » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:18 am

bychosis wrote:
NASHIE wrote:Agree, good in theory to set 35kph limit, but it will never happen or be policed. I think riders can safely ride at 35kph solo, but anything above that and in a train is not being a courteous path user to peds or other riders. Way to many riders not backing off when passing peds with oncoming traffic is my observation in that whole canning river PSP area....im gussing they have strava times to beat :roll:
You really think that they would set the limit that high? I can see them (non cyclists) wanting to set it at 20km/h, or maybe 25 max. This could possibly be approved by 'regular joe' cyclists that don't understand that traveling at 30km/h is not only achievable, but quite efficient.

Personally I ride our local sharepath at around 28km/h commuting. I slow a little to pass the morning exercise crowd with no dramas if necessary, but if there is afternoon traffic it tends to be less business and more leisurely so I need to slow more, particularly around kids. Some people don't get that though, and are constantly 'running late' so think they need to ride as fast as possible everywhere, not as fast as is reasonable or that courteosy allows. The path I use is actually signed with recommended a 10km/h limit, which is stupidly slow.
I ride on my local shared path (it's a fairly wide cycleway) at 35km/h, slowing right down around pedestrians to 10km/h lower. Then I speed up again. I have no real dramas. If you had to commute at 10km/h, it would take forever to get anywhere. Even just riding to the local railway station which is about 6km would take far too long. It would be better to use a car instead.

The really low suggested speed limits from certain groups (or persons) serve no other purpose other than to deter people from commuter riding and encourage driving cars.

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