PSP Speed Limit
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby softy » Mon May 30, 2016 4:48 pm
No one has demonstrated proof or a study that these Shared paths are that dangerous to warrant change. How many cyclists are hitting pedestrian in relation to total commutes? Agreed that passing speeds maybe considerable, but really is this actually resulting in many accidents/incidents occurring?
I have heard of hardly any, maybe I am wrong, But would tend to think collisions are very rare. Maybe this whole, shared paths are dangerous (which have been around for years without problems) is just a storm in a tea cup.
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby NASHIE » Mon May 30, 2016 5:05 pm
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby bychosis » Mon May 30, 2016 7:03 pm
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby NASHIE » Mon May 30, 2016 7:56 pm
Absolutely, I'm sure a few hours of weekend police bike patrols pulling up groups riding double file, bombing past peds and other paths users etc wouldn't hurt. No need to hand out fines, just put the message out there for riders to pull their heads in.bychosis wrote:Does this potentially come down to our somewhat ridiculous method of making a law for it when it could be sorted out with PROPER education? Think NSW
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby cj7hawk » Mon May 30, 2016 9:24 pm
Oh... Can you post a link to it at all?NASHIE wrote:The news article is about speed limits around peds, so thanks what I'm talking about.cj7hawk wrote:
First, we're not talking "Speed limits around pedestrians" - We're talking blanket speed limits without pedestrians.
I suspect they might be equating "around peds" as "on a path" though -
David.
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby nachoman » Tue May 31, 2016 1:23 pm
facebook video link
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby NASHIE » Tue May 31, 2016 5:16 pm
4th post in the first page of this thread Davidcj7hawk wrote:
Oh... Can you post a link to it at all?
I think a lot of you guys are commuters ? would be interested to know your average commute kph are. Not downhill tailwind etc but just your average 'solo' no rush get to work with a nice fresh smile on your face type average
FWIW my average for a take it easy not to hot and sweaty 60k river loop is 30kph.......note: always slowing for peds down to walking pace if oncoming riders and never group riding on a PSP, so a 30kph max speed limit works fine for me
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby 방구 똥 » Tue May 31, 2016 6:05 pm
I'm a commuter who is always in a rush with a nice fresh smile. Average maybe around 28km/h?NASHIE wrote:4th post in the first page of this thread Davidcj7hawk wrote:
Oh... Can you post a link to it at all?
I think a lot of you guys are commuters ? would be interested to know your average commute kph are. Not downhill tailwind etc but just your average 'solo' no rush get to work with a nice fresh smile on your face type average
FWIW my average for a take it easy not to hot and sweaty 60k river loop is 30kph.......note: always slowing for peds down to walking pace if oncoming riders and never group riding on a PSP, so a 30kph max speed limit works fine for me
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby 방구 똥 » Tue May 31, 2016 6:13 pm
I don't have a TV, will they put it online?nachoman wrote:Tune in tonight, 9 News has the radar detector out:
facebook video link
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby Wezz » Tue May 31, 2016 7:13 pm
I averaged ~28km/h for a river loop few weeks back and looking at my strava I was sitting at ~35km/h on the flats to make up for the stops at intersections, hills, etc. It is quite easy to average 35km/h on this section in my opinion.NASHIE wrote: FWIW my average for a take it easy not to hot and sweaty 60k river loop is 30kph.......note: always slowing for peds down to walking pace if oncoming riders and never group riding on a PSP, so a 30kph max speed limit works fine for me
I think the whole idea of a speed limit is un-necessary. You'll never please everybody. I used to ride this way for last couple of years to work and never had any problems/issues with pedestrians. I used to do this run quite often to the city and back and never had any issues as a pedestrian either.
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby NASHIE » Tue May 31, 2016 7:29 pm
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby nickobec » Tue May 31, 2016 7:41 pm
Depends mine varies due to weather, fatigue, bike (TT, race, training, singlespeed etc) what training sessions I am doing (I combine my 40km commute with training).NASHIE wrote:I think a lot of you guys are commuters ? would be interested to know your average commute kph are. Not downhill tailwind etc but just your average 'solo' no rush get to work with a nice fresh smile on your face type average
If I look at the average speed over the life on my bikes it is close to 30kph (thanks to veloviewer for that stat), which covers my commuting/training rides, weekend rides, racing and plenty of tottling around. But would of said 30kph average.
I then looked a the stretch of PSP that is the issue here Canning Bridge to Narrows. Note I have ridden it over 400 times according to Strava. I do use it for interval training at times due to good surface, good line of sight, low traffic (on weekdays) and I can empty my tank as I am close to work.
40kph+ 7%
35 to 40kph 30%
30 to 35kph 45%
25 to 30kph 17%
below 25kph 1%
and median speed 33.1kph
edited never had issues with pedestrians in that direction, a couple of joggers did turn right and cross the pass without looking, when coming of the narriows, even after ringing bell.
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby softy » Tue May 31, 2016 8:35 pm
Also what they forgot to mention is there is a number of pedestrian dedicated paths along that stretch, yes I know, not all the way along, but most are just after beach access.
So as said before, I haven't really seen a problem in this area. Yes maybe other PSPs RSPs at different locations.
Picking this PSP, I think they may of just been desperate for a story.
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby cj7hawk » Tue May 31, 2016 8:37 pm
Not very fast at all, and a low blanket speed limit would stop me commuting. It's just not worth the trouble and the roads are too unsafe.
David.
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby 방구 똥 » Tue May 31, 2016 9:10 pm
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby NASHIE » Tue May 31, 2016 9:30 pm
I agree that this stretch isn't really a major issue, and just an easy spot to zap a few speed readings.softy wrote:You actually don't get that many walkers on this section compared to other PSPs and RSPs the one near the Burswood south river side has a much higher percentage of walkers.
Also what they forgot to mention is there is a number of pedestrian dedicated paths along that stretch, yes I know, not all the way along, but most are just after beach access.
So as said before, I haven't really seen a problem in this area. Yes maybe other PSPs RSPs at different locations.
Picking this PSP, I think they may of just been desperate for a story.
Personally i don't and don't think doing intervals, setting strava times i.e. 40-50kph etc on any PSP is appropriate, but appreciate that during commuting times with mainly one way traffic and few peds there is probably not an issue.
Missed tonight's 9 news...any tech savvy people able to throw up a link ?
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby nickobec » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:40 am
I respectfully disagree, the PSP south of Cockburn Central is probably the best place in Perth to do interval training. Where else can you ride up to 60 (currently only 55) kilometres without a intersection, no motor vehicle traffic, few cyclists, the rare pedestrian if any, with good surface, good line of sight and very few entry points for cyclists or pedestrian.NASHIE wrote:Personally i don't and don't think doing intervals, setting strava times i.e. 40-50kph etc on any PSP is appropriate, but appreciate that during commuting times with mainly one way traffic and few peds there is probably not an issue.
I ride to the conditions, I would never contemplate doing an interval on a weekend or on the PSP between Mt Henry and Canning Bridge. I do that on the Esplanade, but it is safer in my opinion to do it on the PSP between Canning and Narrows.
You just need to be very aware of your surroundings and be willing to make adjustments to your plan, including abandoning if conditions require it. ie too much traffic
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:32 pm
10! Even I ride faster than that. And joggers pass me.abas wrote:Excellent, Thankyou for your very detailed explanation. 20kph is fine as I was slower than this when my accident occurred. For some reason I thought 10kph was the limit and that would be ridiculous but then I read the recent legislation update that allowed powered bikes up to 25 kph on the paths so I started thinking it must be faster.
Thankyou again for your prompt and detailed response...even with the appropriate disclaimer, which I expected anyway.
Alan
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby rolandp » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:12 pm
2.6.1 Principal Shared Paths PSPs will continue to form the backbone of Perth’s cycling network. Considered as “freeways for bikes” these routes serve high order, interregional movement purposes. They should be of high standard, with minimal horizontal or vertical curvature. In terms of their built form, PSPs should ideally be of at least 3.5m in width and grade separated at all intersecting roads/railways. Wherever possible, separation should be provided between pedestrians and cyclists.
So the correct answer is 'freeway speeds'. I wonder if those who wrote this section of the document understood what 's' in 'PSP' stands for? Whilst they remain as 'PSP', remember to ride to the conditions.
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Re: PSP Speed Limit
Postby g-boaf » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:18 am
I ride on my local shared path (it's a fairly wide cycleway) at 35km/h, slowing right down around pedestrians to 10km/h lower. Then I speed up again. I have no real dramas. If you had to commute at 10km/h, it would take forever to get anywhere. Even just riding to the local railway station which is about 6km would take far too long. It would be better to use a car instead.bychosis wrote:You really think that they would set the limit that high? I can see them (non cyclists) wanting to set it at 20km/h, or maybe 25 max. This could possibly be approved by 'regular joe' cyclists that don't understand that traveling at 30km/h is not only achievable, but quite efficient.NASHIE wrote:Agree, good in theory to set 35kph limit, but it will never happen or be policed. I think riders can safely ride at 35kph solo, but anything above that and in a train is not being a courteous path user to peds or other riders. Way to many riders not backing off when passing peds with oncoming traffic is my observation in that whole canning river PSP area....im gussing they have strava times to beat
Personally I ride our local sharepath at around 28km/h commuting. I slow a little to pass the morning exercise crowd with no dramas if necessary, but if there is afternoon traffic it tends to be less business and more leisurely so I need to slow more, particularly around kids. Some people don't get that though, and are constantly 'running late' so think they need to ride as fast as possible everywhere, not as fast as is reasonable or that courteosy allows. The path I use is actually signed with recommended a 10km/h limit, which is stupidly slow.
The really low suggested speed limits from certain groups (or persons) serve no other purpose other than to deter people from commuter riding and encourage driving cars.
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