ABC article about shared path tensions

[BrownBike]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-01/c ... section=wa

[Sinner]

Interesting comment about no speed limits!

I was told by Main Roads that the speed limit is the same as that across the road reserve, unless otherwise signed. Hence the PSP by the Mitchell Freeway is 100kph - go boys and girls!

[worzel]

It's about the third article I have read in the last week decrying cyclists for not ringing a bell. To be fair I would have agreed until I started riding again 6 months ago after decades. I could not see how to comment otherwise I would have posted that "25% of the time it has the desired effect, 25% the pedestrian does not even hear due to being on a phone / having music on / gossiping, 25% the polite warning is met with a foul mouthed tirade and 25% the pedestrian jumps the other way into your path"


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[Marmoset]

I'm in agreement with you there Worzel. The iPeds are the worst as you just can't tell if they've heard you or not. I just tend to slow down for everything now, which might be a struggle for some other peronality types.

[casual_cyclist]

I'm in agreement with you there Worzel. The iPeds are the worst as you just can't tell if they've heard you or not. I just tend to slow down for everything now, which might be a struggle for some other peronality types.

I assume people have not heard me and slow down to an appropriate speed. My view is that it is a shared path, so we should share it. That said, I don't take kindly to groups standing on the path, blocking both lanes, chatting.

[casual_cyclist]

I also object to people with no road sense that step onto the shared path without looking in either direction.

[Timeonabike]

Shared paths are a cheap-ass cop out, and just plain dangerous.
People can't walk, people can't ride, and people definitely can't drive.
I say 3 ways or no way!

Cheers,

Time

[SquareWheels]

I used to ding all the time. Not anymore (still ding but not always). If I see headphone cables then I am not dinging. If the peds/cyclist/other is on the left (going in same direction as me) and its clear on the right I move right as far as possible and ride past (sometimes fast yes). I gotta say that I have not really seen anyone randomly deviate from their line when walking on the PSP. Sure it could happen. I have had no close calls and almost everyone I see on the PSP seems to know to keep left, or at least stick to one side and not wonder aimlessly from one side to another. Considering most folk who use the PSP have been on it numerous times it is fairly safe to assume that the majority know who else is using it. The dinging of a bell causes far more confusion than it is worth sometimes. That's when folks can become unpredictable.

If the peds/cyclist/other are straddling the centre line I ding from a good distance out and get ready to apply the brakes if needed. If its going to be a squeeze between peds/cyclist/other on the left and right (oncoming) I just slow down and wait. The biggest problem I generally see is cyclists squeezing and close shaving between folk moving in opposing directions.

I haven't copped any abuse for not dinging and if i do ding and pass I always give a wave to say cheers regardless of whether they actually moved or not. I think a lot of the arguments made in articles like the one linked are simply a way for someone to fill their word quota. Yes some agro can exist but for the most part and over the last 2 years I have not seen much at all. Cant really say I have had any tension with peds and the lack of abuse directed at me says to me that its the same the other way.

the quote from one caller was "Most do nothing, they just ride past and if you don’t hear them it is very dangerous. I often shout ‘Please ring your bell’ and I get abuse back."
Really? Well the abuse hurling guys are rude I agree. Why is it dangerous though. If I come past at 15kph I will pass the along track meter beside a ped in 0.24s, at 20kph its 0.18s, at 30kph its 0.12 secs. Assuming I have good clearance to the right of the ped I am there and gone before they can complete a blink (0.3-0.4s average). The quicker I am away from peds the better. When I am on the rode cycling the last thing I want is a car tooting me to tell me its passing. Unless I am weaving around like a tool I expect the cars to be overtaking me on my right and I am head checking if I am going to be moving right.

Anyhoo peace out.

[mixitup]

I both ride to work and run to work on the same shared path - so can see both sides (I also ride on the road and MTB). The only way it works if people on both sides are respectful and considerate.

Pedestrians need to stay left, not hog the entire path, move predictably and look behind before turning etc.
Cyclists need either slow right down or give warning to pass (where there isn't enough space)- or give adequate clearance. Rule of thumb - the faster you move the more space you should leave.

Seems pretty simple but unfortunately you get selfish people in either form.... thankfully they seem to be in minority. With that said it's whilst I've been running that I've felt the most "tense"...

I've felt the "air" move near my head (whilst keeping well left) as cyclists pass at speed too close for comfort. As you can't hear them coming it does give you quite a fright. So I can understand why there are some agro peds out there. You feel vulnerable when this happens-- and it does happen a bit too frequently.

It's the same feeling when riding on a road and a car passes too close. No one likes that. So treat peds as you would like to be treated on the road. Slow down and wait till it's safe (give warning if necessary) OR pass with sufficient room. A meter matters:)

[Mububban]

Yeah I'm a mix Squarewheels, if it's someone walking a dog that is more variable in its direction than a human, I'll ding so the owner has time to take a firm hold/shorten the lead. Same if I see people walking 2-3 abreast up ahead, a single ding makes them move left. I don't bother with the schoolkids when I see them walking, heads down, staring at their phone screens with music pumping into their ears. All that's going to do is startle them and make them flinch/move. They're nearly always well to the side, so I slow down a bit and glide past then get back up to speed.

[quote=Marmoset]I just tend to slow down for everything now, which might be a struggle for some other personality types.[/quote]

None of us likes to slow down when we're in a rhythm, but I'd rather do that than smash into someone from behind at top speed, even if it's them that did something careless/stupid.
Being both a commuter cyclist and a driver, I'd have to say that proportions of considerate vs ****head is about equal for both groups

[casual_cyclist]

I had to take a hike on a busy shared path after work (don't ask, long story). Anyway, it was a nice afternoon stroll along the river with walkers, runners and cyclists all sharing the path. It noticed how pleasant it was to be able to walk undisturbed by the contant ringing of cyclist bells. If every one of the many cyclists had rung as they passed, I would have been very irate by the end of my walk.

[bychosis]

While we are on the roads we expect cars to be patient etc. so it should be the same on a share path, we should slow for peds and be patient. As drivers we expect cyclists to be predictable and consistent on the road so that we may pass safely, same on here share paths. We should also expect that commuter traffic on a share path is more consistent than the bedlam of kids and dogs on a weekend and ride accordingly.

If I want to ride my fastest I'll pick the roads if it is busy on the share path where the other traffic is faster than me anyway. My bell ring frequency is dictated by the level of chaos on the paths too.

[stealthbike]

The real issue is that the paths have been designated as shared paths. The paths were built to accommodate cyclists and then pedestrians also allowed to also use them. Do people really think the path along the freeway from Mandurah to Joondalup was built for pedestrians? It is only because of cycling commuters that the path exists. I accept that the situation is unlikely to change but there needs to be complete separation at very bust sections. This has occurred in South Perth and should occur between Mt Henry and Canning bridges, for example.

I accept that some cyclists are very dangerous to both pedestrians and other cyclists but there must also be education of pedestrians. It is unsafe and unfair for pedestrians to be walking two and three or more abreast and expect cyclists to accept this. They do not do it when walking along the side of a road because it is unsafe for them - the same applies on a PSP.

[macca33]

While we are on the roads we expect cars to be patient etc. so it should be the same on a share path, we should slow for peds and be patient. As drivers we expect cyclists to be predictable and consistent on the road so that we may pass safely, same on here share paths. We should also expect that commuter traffic on a share path is more consistent than the bedlam of kids and dogs on a weekend and ride accordingly.

If I want to ride my fastest I'll pick the roads if it is busy on the share path where the other traffic is faster than me anyway. My bell ring frequency is dictated by the level of chaos on the paths too.

Why inject a reasonable opinion into this thread????

I agree with you - there are so many who are quick to abuse motorists / pedestrians / whomever, yet they will not consider taking a backwards step - just once - themselves, to avoid an issue that many involve a hazard to another's safety. Or, is all the bravado and pontification I've been hearing just internet smack-talk????

cheers

[wellington_street]

The real issue is that the paths have been designated as shared paths. The paths were built to accommodate cyclists and then pedestrians also allowed to also use them. Do people really think the path along the freeway from Mandurah to Joondalup was built for pedestrians?

The inner section of the Mandurah path (north of say South Street) and the entire Joondalup path were built mainly for pedestrians. Cyclists weren't even allowed over the Narrows Bridge (on road or path) for 20 odd years after it was built; that is how little Main Roads cared for cyclists back then. Anything built from the late 1980s onwards you could reasonably say was built with cyclists in mind more than pedestrians but still as shared paths. Similar how some motorists will claim that roads are for cars only and cyclists shouldn't be allowed to use them.

[CXCommuter]

I agree with you - there are so many who are quick to abuse motorists / pedestrians / whomever, yet they will not consider taking a backwards step - just once - themselves, to avoid an issue that many involve a hazard to another's safety. Or, is all the bravado and pontification I've been hearing just internet smack-talk????

This puts it perfectly- lots of people happy to whinge and bitch about others but everything they do is above reproach and they will argue to the death (or flat battery on their phone/computer) that their law breaking is not an issue but all other (often law abiding) users whether they be pedestrians, drivers, other cyclist "cults" are ALWAYS at fault even when clear unequivocal evidence is available.

[NASHIE]

Im not a commuter, so don't spend much time on PSP's, but i do find some bell ringers a bit over the top !!!. Like others if pedestrians are 2-3 abreast i will just slow down give them a "bike" let them fall over each other getting left a proceed when safe. Would like to see a few more "BE COURTEOUS KEEP LEFT' signs or paint marks to keep the message fresh in peoples minds. Don't forget alot of pedestrians in and around Perth CBD are tourist etc caught up in the moment

[Mububban]

This puts it perfectly- lots of people happy to whinge and bitch about others but everything they do is above reproach and they will argue to the death (or flat battery on their phone/computer) that their law breaking is not an issue but all other (often law abiding) users whether they be pedestrians, drivers, other cyclist "cults" are ALWAYS at fault even when clear unequivocal evidence is available.

This is all being far too reasonable and logical and considerate of others. The Elders of the Internet will soon be along to revoke your internet access

[worzel]

Its not just bike-pedestrian interactions. I had a close call with another cylcist by Greenwood station this morning. I was coming downhill from Whitfords direction when a woman approached the PSP sidways from the car park and came to almost a dead stop. I saw her and had been covering the brakes but let off when she slowed and looked my way (I had a flashing front light too). But then she pulled out right in front of me, not in control of her bike with her front wheel going this way and that and then entered on the wrong side of the path towards me. Somehow I managed to swerve past her and avoid the oncoming pedestrian. It could have been very nasty but I can't help smiling when I think of the girly shriek she let out as I passed her. I hope she packed a spare pair of clean knickers.

[Hugor]

As a regular commuter on PSP's my biggest annoyance is peds who insist on using/obstructing the paths where separate ones exist.
These include the south Perth path, Riverside Dve, and freeway south amongst others
The footpath in all cases is waterside and more scenic so why do they subject themselves to the danger and noise of the bike path?

[chuckchunder]

Im not a commuter, so don't spend much time on PSP's, but i do find some bell ringers a bit over the top !!!. Like others if pedestrians are 2-3 abreast i will just slow down give them a "bike" let them fall over each other getting left a proceed when safe. Would like to see a few more "BE COURTEOUS KEEP LEFT' signs or paint marks to keep the message fresh in peoples minds. Don't forget alot of pedestrians in and around Perth CBD are tourist etc caught up in the moment

I am of the opinion that signs don't work unless they are accompanied by other training programs or campaigns. The perfect example is the secondary boys school where I work. There was much lamentation regarding the apparent lack of ability of the boys to flush the toilets. I suggested some time spent talking with the boys about the need to do so, along with washing hands etc, but the consensus of others was that signs should be posted in each cubicle. The signs were duly posted saying "Please flush after use". So the boys did.


Flush the signs that is.

[wellington_street]

^

I can relate to that mentality; there's been a "Please take me" sign next to various old things at work for a while that I really want to take...

As a regular commuter on PSP's my biggest annoyance is peds who insist on using/obstructing the paths where separate ones exist.
These include the south Perth path, Riverside Dve, and freeway south amongst others
The footpath in all cases is waterside and more scenic so why do they subject themselves to the danger and noise of the bike path?

Riverside Drive is still a shared path. I can't think of any separated paths on freeway south but it's not my regular commute so am I forgetting something? Parts of South Perth are cyclists only, if I remember correctly, so I agree peds should not be there.

Again, it's all too similar to the attitude of "why do cyclists have to obstruct me on the road when there's a perfectly good path over there they can use", particularly if you are writing "using/obstructing" interchangeably. Using is fine, obstructing is not.

[worzel]

Its all about the differential in speed. Motorists resent us for being slow on the road, pedestrians resent us for being fast on the paths. We don't have our own "safe place". But even if we did there is even a thing between cyclists of different abilities.

[casual_cyclist]

Riverside Drive is still a shared path. I can't think of any separated paths on freeway south but it's not my regular commute so am I forgetting something? Parts of South Perth are cyclists only, if I remember correctly, so I agree peds should not be there.

Again, it's all too similar to the attitude of "why do cyclists have to obstruct me on the road when there's a perfectly good path over there they can use", particularly if you are writing "using/obstructing" interchangeably. Using is fine, obstructing is not.

Not really. Bikes are allowed on the road whereas peds are not suppsed to use the "cyclist only" paths. Doesn't stop them thought and they get shirty if you politely ask them to keep left.

[exadios]

I'm in agreement with you there Worzel. The iPeds are the worst as you just can't tell if they've heard you or not. I just tend to slow down for everything now, which might be a struggle for some other peronality types.

I assume people have not heard me and slow down to an appropriate speed. My view is that it is a shared path, so we should share it. That said, I don't take kindly to groups standing on the path, blocking both lanes, chatting.

Exactly!