Paid parking at train stations

WarbyD
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby WarbyD » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:42 pm

softy wrote:
rolandp wrote:
CycleWest also had an article this week:
Buddy up: save your public transport colleagues paid parking fees
encouraging us to 'buddy up' to the train station:
Now is a great time to introduce fellow colleagues to using pedal power to get to the train station as bike parking remains free of charge.

“Trips to train stations are often less than four kilometres in distance. This is just a fifteen minute slow bike ride, half of the minimum daily recommended level of exercise,” said Jillian Woolmer Research and Policy Officer at the Department of Transport and Accredited AustCycle Coach.

A return trip from the train station home would save commuters money and tick the daily required exercise box.

“Sometimes all it takes for someone to take up bike riding is to have a knowledgeable buddy taking them along and showing them the route. Not knowing the safest and easiest way to ride or how to use the bike cage is a barrier for many,” said Ms Woolmer.
This really is a pipe dream!
People will not buddy up, unless they are neighbours going the same way and starting and finishing at the same time, which is rare.

Okay they say cycle, well most people don't want to be cold, hot or wear a helmet to mess their hair when wearing work attire. So no they probably will not want to cycle most times of the year. The car is just more comfortable.

Unfortunately 99.9% will still drive and try and park somewhere?
Do you ever have anything positive to say? I am fairly sure every post of yours I've read has been something negative or complaining about how wrong something/someone is...

What is YOUR suggestion?

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softy
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby softy » Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:47 pm

WarbyD wrote:
softy wrote:
rolandp wrote:
CycleWest also had an article this week:
Buddy up: save your public transport colleagues paid parking fees
encouraging us to 'buddy up' to the train station:
Now is a great time to introduce fellow colleagues to using pedal power to get to the train station as bike parking remains free of charge.

“Trips to train stations are often less than four kilometres in distance. This is just a fifteen minute slow bike ride, half of the minimum daily recommended level of exercise,” said Jillian Woolmer Research and Policy Officer at the Department of Transport and Accredited AustCycle Coach.

A return trip from the train station home would save commuters money and tick the daily required exercise box.

“Sometimes all it takes for someone to take up bike riding is to have a knowledgeable buddy taking them along and showing them the route. Not knowing the safest and easiest way to ride or how to use the bike cage is a barrier for many,” said Ms Woolmer.
This really is a pipe dream!
People will not buddy up, unless they are neighbours going the same way and starting and finishing at the same time, which is rare.

Okay they say cycle, well most people don't want to be cold, hot or wear a helmet to mess their hair when wearing work attire. So no they probably will not want to cycle most times of the year. The car is just more comfortable.

Unfortunately 99.9% will still drive and try and park somewhere?
Do you ever have anything positive to say? I am fairly sure every post of yours I've read has been something negative or complaining about how wrong something/someone is...

What is YOUR suggestion?

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk


Yes, public transport reduces cars on the road, uses less carbon and is a more efficient way of moving people. This is a great thing! It should be encouraged as well as walking jogging and cycling. All these thing have huge advantages. It keeps cars off the road and makes people healthier as well.

The buddy up thing has been tried in the past and wasn't very successful, remember the lanes for two or more people in a car? In theory it is great, but in practice people want freedom to leave and start to do different things after work, and things like splitting petrol become complicated. Some people do it and that is great idea, but not a huge number. On a positive note; Sir charles gardiner are really good here as they support this and give staff a extra incentive to buddy. They get a closer parking to the hospital. Give people an incentive and culture can change. But you need government or employer pressure.

How can making the fares more and park go from zero to $2.00 change culture or be a good thing? Yes the above poster talked about cost associated with the infrastructure, which I agree is true. But if you applied this cost, who would park and ride? Less people I'm sure?

We have a growing nation, and I'm not talking about numbers. It is predicted by 2025 (at the current rate) obesity will overtake smoking as the biggest medical cause of death in this country. We can choose to do nothing or do something. It's not being negative it is being realistic. If you do lots of little things to encourage people, even a little exercise ever day, we can be a healthier country. Using public transport usually involves a little more exercise than driving the total distance and it gets more cars off the road which saves road infrastructure cost.

Instead of being personal and having a go at me (for being negative) write something that adds to the disscussion. If you believe putting up PTA cost is a good thing, please lets hear your point of view? And why?

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Red Rider
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Red Rider » Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:08 am

citywomble wrote:I live at the edge of the walk distance to Whitfords train station. Parking on local streets extended out close to my house. So a big new car park was built at the expense of a wooded buffer area.

Great, no on street parking for two weeks. After one month it was all back where it was before and the car park had done nothing to stop parking on local streets. It had, however, removed a large wooded area and exposed residents to the noise of the freeway and railway. So MRWA then spent an enormous sum of money on a tall concrete acoustic wall, now residents look at at a concrete wall where they used to see woodland.

What actually happened. More parking attracted more drivers. This reduced bus patronage which, when the first car park expansion took place, caused a reduction in bus services - which then causes more drivers to use cars.

Net result, much money spent on car park and acoustic wall and local council still had to put parking restrictions on local streets. Why, because more parking spaces actually attracts more drivers. If 10% of those drivers will look at the surroundings and consider antisocial parking then that proportion increases too. Put in deterrents through pricing and, over a few weeks, it settles down and a few will chose PT or cycling as an alternative - the rest will actually start contributing towards the space they use to dispose of two tonnes of metal for a day (either in the parking spaces or pay a premium through parking infringements). Providing price is at the right level then spaces are available to avoid higher penalties.
Great story! :lol:

I do feel for those that will be inconvenienced by the change, but I do think it must be done for the overall benefit of the transport system (provided they properly invest in public and active transport!).

softy
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby softy » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:45 am

@warbyB

Just a comment;
FYI
If you read through the previous comments posted by "citywomble" and I both of us would like the same long term outcome but have different views. He has put some good arguments forward and added to the thread with good discussion.

I believe in different drivers to him to achieve the same result, so we put are reasons forward. This is what I believe is good about these threads. Difference of opinions which give readers scenarios to consider. Even I may overlooked something I didn ot consider and gain knowledge from the thread.

You can read all my posts, I am not personal at all, but I may disagree and will give my reasons. I have also put agreed to other posters comments.

If you disagree with my posts, add your reasons why. Have a discussion like I have suggested above.

softy
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby softy » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:32 am

I would like to add a story for comment;

6 months ago my section of 10 people worked in the city. All of the team used PTA or cycled into work, including me.
Then due to Management decisions our team was moved to Jandakot, the location was aproximately 3 km from the cockburn train station, but PTA had no infrastructure eg: buses that passed our new location although a big depot having hundreds of workers.

Now after the move all of the other employees reverted back to using a car. Two actually bought a brand new car especially for the commute. The other person that cycled although his trip was slightly longer and or could integrate the train has reverted to his car. My trip although 200% longer, I am the only one using a bicycle or and PTA.

I have tried to encourage others to continue to use their bicycle (even managed to improve faciliaties at the location for bicycles) with no success. The previous train users don't want to walk or ride a bicycle the 3 km from cockburn central station.

So now we have 9 people who have reverted from using either a train/bus or cycle to a car.
Why are they so reluctant to leave the car at home and try something different?

I believe the cost difference is to small between the PTA charges and petrol + the extra time to travel on PTA. But I could be missing something??

Comments invited on this human nature??
Cheers

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rolandp
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby rolandp » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:24 am

Councils clamp down on parking
Perth councils will step up patrols and tighten time restrictions to stop train commuters parking all day on suburban streets when new charges come into force tomorrow.
A $2 daily parking fee will be introduced to all metropolitan train stations from tomorrow.
There will also be higher parking fees in the City of Perth, cuts to the seniors' cost-of-living rebate and a fall in the first-homebuyer's benefit
....
More here at The West.

Let's see what happens tomorrow morning (aka 1-Jul-2014). Feels like Y2K all over again.

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Mububban
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Mububban » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:29 am

There are going to be soooo many parking tickets given out, just wait for the news headlines...
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

softy
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby softy » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:17 am

Mububban wrote:There are going to be soooo many parking tickets given out, just wait for the news headlines...
Agreed.

It will be interested to see what happens after it settles down after a few months. How human nature will react to this intiative.

moosterbounce
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby moosterbounce » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:02 pm

softy wrote:I would like to add a story for comment;

6 months ago my section of 10 people worked in the city. All of the team used PTA or cycled into work, including me.
Then due to Management decisions our team was moved to Jandakot, the location was aproximately 3 km from the cockburn train station, but PTA had no infrastructure eg: buses that passed our new location although a big depot having hundreds of workers.

Now after the move all of the other employees reverted back to using a car. Two actually bought a brand new car especially for the commute. The other person that cycled although his trip was slightly longer and or could integrate the train has reverted to his car. My trip although 200% longer, I am the only one using a bicycle or and PTA.

I have tried to encourage others to continue to use their bicycle (even managed to improve faciliaties at the location for bicycles) with no success. The previous train users don't want to walk or ride a bicycle the 3 km from cockburn central station.

So now we have 9 people who have reverted from using either a train/bus or cycle to a car.
Why are they so reluctant to leave the car at home and try something different?

I believe the cost difference is to small between the PTA charges and petrol + the extra time to travel on PTA. But I could be missing something??

Comments invited on this human nature??
Cheers
I'm guessing you have free parking at Jandakot? PTA is so inconvenient when faced with free parking. I pay around $20 /day when I drive, $6 when I PTA, or "free" when I ride. People will take the cheapest, most convenient, and warmest/coolest option...which, if you have free parking, is the car.

Only weirdo's like us continue to ride in all weathers for the enjoyment.

softy
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby softy » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:56 pm

moosterbounce wrote:
softy wrote:I would like to add a story for comment;

6 months ago my section of 10 people worked in the city. All of the team used PTA or cycled into work, including me.
Then due to Management decisions our team was moved to Jandakot, the location was aproximately 3 km from the cockburn train station, but PTA had no infrastructure eg: buses that passed our new location although a big depot having hundreds of workers.

Now after the move all of the other employees reverted back to using a car. Two actually bought a brand new car especially for the commute. The other person that cycled although his trip was slightly longer and or could integrate the train has reverted to his car. My trip although 200% longer, I am the only one using a bicycle or and PTA.

I have tried to encourage others to continue to use their bicycle (even managed to improve faciliaties at the location for bicycles) with no success. The previous train users don't want to walk or ride a bicycle the 3 km from cockburn central station.

So now we have 9 people who have reverted from using either a train/bus or cycle to a car.
Why are they so reluctant to leave the car at home and try something different?

I believe the cost difference is to small between the PTA charges and petrol + the extra time to travel on PTA. But I could be missing something??

Comments invited on this human nature??
Cheers
I'm guessing you have free parking at Jandakot? PTA is so inconvenient when faced with free parking. I pay around $20 /day when I drive, $6 when I PTA, or "free" when I ride. People will take the cheapest, most convenient, and warmest/coolest option...which, if you have free parking, is the car.

Only weirdo's like us continue to ride in all weathers for the enjoyment.
Yes free parking and carports if you arrive early enough.

Scott_C
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Scott_C » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:15 pm

Anecdotally, I have heard that there have been 800 new sign-ups for access to the bike shelters over the past 4 weeks. These may just be people who are signing up "just in case" while they are also signing up for SmartParker but anyone who normally parks in the shelters might want to make an effort to get in early tomorrow.

softy
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby softy » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:21 pm

Scott_C wrote:Anecdotally, I have heard that there have been 800 new sign-ups for access to the bike shelters over the past 4 weeks. These may just be people who are signing up "just in case" while they are also signing up for SmartParker but anyone who normally parks in the shelters might want to make an effort to get in early tomorrow.
That is encouraging information.
Anyone using the bike shelters over the next few days feedback infomation. It will be nice to see if this reflected on the ground.

Interested to see how people respond to this change.

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:06 pm

The current state economic strategy is that someone has to pay for the boom that Colin Barnett wasted. It shows with his desperate scratching for a penny here and a buck there.

So... I'm starting to worry now our Premier will find out that I get to work without paying for parking, not much on train fares and nothing on petrol and road imposts. And then he will slap a tax on unicycles. :cry:
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle

cherrycam
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby cherrycam » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:50 pm

softy wrote:
Scott_C wrote:Anecdotally, I have heard that there have been 800 new sign-ups for access to the bike shelters over the past 4 weeks. These may just be people who are signing up "just in case" while they are also signing up for SmartParker but anyone who normally parks in the shelters might want to make an effort to get in early tomorrow.
That is encouraging information.
Anyone using the bike shelters over the next few days feedback infomation. It will be nice to see if this reflected on the ground.

Interested to see how people respond to this change.
At Greenwood, the day prior to the introduction of the parking fees, my preferred bike cage was full at 8.05 and the other one looked pretty full as well....in the middle of winter

softy
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby softy » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:14 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:The current state economic strategy is that someone has to pay for the boom that Colin Barnett wasted. It shows with his desperate scratching for a penny here and a buck there.

So... I'm starting to worry now our Premier will find out that I get to work without paying for parking, not much on train fares and nothing on petrol and road imposts. And then he will slap a tax on unicycles. :cry:
Hopefully Colin B will introduce a tax on wheels, means trucks pay the most, cars next, then bicycles and Mr Colin old and cranky will pay for one.

Just keep your fingers crossed.

:P

worzel
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby worzel » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:39 am

There was not a noticeable decrease in the cars parked at Currambine this morning, though all the legit parking spots on the road were full at 6.45. The new machines confused me and all those tagging on at the same time. I got a weird message "Use only one card"???? I only presented one card so was that justa reminder to tag on the train with the same card, was it an error or did it mean something else? There was no one to ask.

sorted
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby sorted » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:10 am

The car park at Greenwood station was noticeably quieter than usual when I went past at 07:15 this morning. It may have been my imagination, but I think that there were a couple more 'fresh' looking cyclists than usual out on the Mitchell PSP as well.

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casual_cyclist
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:36 pm

Paid parking introduced at Perth train stations
The system appeared to be going smoothly, with only short queues for the swipe and ticket machines.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-01/c ... er/5562096" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No news on other stations though.
<removed by request>

Scott_C
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Scott_C » Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:01 pm

It apparently got some play on talkback radio this morning with reports of 50 people lined up for the machines at Warnbro whilst it was raining.

DOOM! CARMAGEDDON! :roll:

Personally I didn't notice any difference in the number of cars using streetside parking as I rode past the stations from Welshpool to Burswood or at East Perth this morning. The (tiny) carpark at Oats St was already full at 7:15am.

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roller
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby roller » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:14 pm

Is there any on-line resource that would help identify which carparks are transperth carparks and which are normal council carparks?

As I'm iffy on the situation at Bayswater, as I have noticed info at the carparks directly joining the Bayswater station, however there is another car park a short walking distance away and I am not sure if this is included in the transperth "catchment" or if it's a council carpark.

I might have missed the signs at this secondary car park, but I can't find anything anywhere on the net that would give an answer one way or the other.

Perhaps they are hoping everyone will just tag on just in case?
inflammatory statement or idea

Scott_C
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby Scott_C » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:24 pm

roller wrote:As I'm iffy on the situation at Bayswater, as I have noticed info at the carparks directly joining the Bayswater station, however there is another car park a short walking distance away and I am not sure if this is included in the transperth "catchment" or if it's a council carpark.
I am not aware of anything definitive on-line (the best I can suggest is looking at Google Maps and seeing if they are in the same 'property line' box as the railway) but as far as I know the PTA carparks are North of Whatley and South of Railway Parade, this includes the carpark that is West of Coode St and North of Whatley.

The carpark which backs onto the Halliday Park clubrooms isn't on PTA land so if this is what you are referring to you should be OK.

A general rule of thumb for the Freo, Midland and Armadale lines (whose alignments date back to the 19th century) is that if there isn't a road between you and the railway then you are probably on PTA's land.

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:35 pm

softy wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:The current state economic strategy is that someone has to pay for the boom that Colin Barnett wasted. It shows with his desperate scratching for a penny here and a buck there.

So... I'm starting to worry now our Premier will find out that I get to work without paying for parking, not much on train fares and nothing on petrol and road imposts. And then he will slap a tax on unicycles. :cry:
Hopefully Colin B will introduce a tax on wheels, means trucks pay the most, cars next, then bicycles and Mr Colin old and cranky will pay for one.

Just keep your fingers crossed.

:P
That sounds fair. Just as long as he stings you for twice as much as me. :twisted: :mrgreen:

I recall that there are declarations that are sometimes made in the north banning usage of specific roads when weather conditions mean that traffic will substantially degrade the road and the fines that are levied are on the basis of the number o wheels. Sorta reflects the damage that different classes of vehicle - from road trains to prime movers to caravans to cars are expected to do if they defy the restriction. (I and heaps of others got trapped in Wittenoom once for three days with all three roads closed by declaration.)
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:45 pm

Scott_C wrote:It apparently got some play on talkback radio this morning with reports of 50 people lined up for the machines at Warnbro whilst it was raining.

DOOM! CARMAGEDDON! :roll:

Personally I didn't notice any difference in the number of cars using streetside parking as I rode past the stations from Welshpool to Burswood or at East Perth this morning. The (tiny) carpark at Oats St was already full at 7:15am.
Maybe I didn't see as many station parkers as I rode past Bull Creek this morning. However that may be the small sample at that time (5:10am) or just simple confirmation bias. :?

I expect it will all settle down in a few weeks and many drivers will discover their local bus feeds.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle

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rolandp
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby rolandp » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:16 am

Rode past Glendalough, plenty of available bays. Saw lots of people parking in the side streets which City of Stirling has recently introduced paid parking ($5 per day ), so scratching my head trying to work out the logic of this when there were available bays for $2 per day.

School holidays start next week, so this won't settle down for several weeks due to changes in driver numbers due to the holidays. Personally not a factor for me, as I ride :).

worzel
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Re: Paid parking at train stations

Postby worzel » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:13 am

So after queueing for a few minutes to tag on at the car park this morning it turns out I did not tag on properly yesterday (so I am glad to read in the paper they won't be fining anyone this week). The sign where it says present card here is actually above where you have to present it not where you actually have to. :roll: The message I got about "present one card only" would presumably have been as I had my wallet in my hand with my smartrider in my fingers and so I actually presented a dozen credit cards / loyalty cards at the proper place.

There was at least someone there to help this morning, though she may have caught a expletive or two under my breath when I missed my train due to the queues. (That resulted in being squeezed onto the next one which was only 3 cars long and running late and I ended up next to a woman who jogged my elbow every 3 seconds while playing Candy Crush and a bloke in the aisle that kept bashing my knee with his rucksack.) Well, at least it helps remind me why I now cycle at every opportunity now.

Interesting to see in the paper that Transperth announced the roll out was a success. Mind you, the spin they always put on things they would probably find a way to claim the Titanic's maiden voyage a success too.

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