Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Clintoo
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Clintoo » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:49 pm

I live just up the road, and I rode that way to work on the morning it happened. I normally do the Reserve street climb, as I have had people pull out on me at that corner before and reserve/stock is safer. But I was on my single speed so I took the easier route. Which is freaking me out a bit to think that it happened somewhere I passed a couple of hours earlier. It had me grinding my way up reserve street hill this morning.

Yeh it was an overcast day which makes me think but it was still the middle of the day, so visibility should have been ok, I think it is just that corner, which is not a proper 90 degree T section, so people have to really turn their head to the right to get a look up the hill to see whats coming and if they don't look properly....

After watching the video footage, I realised I know his wife, she was at my wedding 8 years ago (perth is a small place after all). It's a horrible situation and it makes me feel worst realising I know her.

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flashpixx
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby flashpixx » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:10 pm

Scott_C wrote:
Sorry, I must have phrased that badly as I certainly did not mean to imply any fault on the part of the cyclist, it was just a link to some further information that I thought was interesting. My own Strava history shows that I go through this same intersection at 51kph on a flat bar road bike with a cadence of 0, just rolling down the hill.

I was uploading my commute to Strava at the time I read the article so I did a quick search on the name and came up with the file.
I can't for the life of me work out why you would have bothered to post this in the first place. Yeah it was in the public domain (Strava) but geez, what you have done is at worst implicate the rider, and at best generated doubt in the level of contribution the rider had...
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flashpixx
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby flashpixx » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:26 pm

Agree. My question is why post it?

Oxford wrote:
flashpixx wrote:
Scott_C wrote:
Sorry, I must have phrased that badly as I certainly did not mean to imply any fault on the part of the cyclist, it was just a link to some further information that I thought was interesting. My own Strava history shows that I go through this same intersection at 51kph on a flat bar road bike with a cadence of 0, just rolling down the hill.

I was uploading my commute to Strava at the time I read the article so I did a quick search on the name and came up with the file.
I can't for the life of me work out why you would have bothered to post this in the first place. Yeah it was in the public domain (Strava) but geez, what you have done is at worst implicate the rider, and at best generated doubt in the level of contribution the rider had...
Do you really think this information would remain private forever? The rider had streaming updates, it was going to get out and if this ever reaches the courts it would be an absolute necessity to have it made known if not just to refute the drivers claims of excessive speed being an excuse not to see the rider. I think what riders should be doing is not having streaming of their data so that it remains their weapon to use to their advantage when needed. All technological development is not necessarily good, this to me is a good example of why you shouldn't assume that because it is convenient it must be good.
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Scott_C
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Scott_C » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:19 pm

flashpixx wrote:I can't for the life of me work out why you would have bothered to post this in the first place. Yeah it was in the public domain (Strava) but geez, what you have done is at worst implicate the rider, and at best generated doubt in the level of contribution the rider had...
I don't see how the Strava data is significantly different from the CCTV footage in this regard (other than the Strava data was linked in a forum with limited readership and the CCTV footage was broadcast on the evening news) it is a electronic recording of the incident with somewhat limited accuracy and I felt it added to the discussion. Do you feel that the CCTV recording (sourced from a local resident's private security system, rather than a public self-published record), and mention of the 9 second stop as measured from the CCTV recording, unfairly implicates the driver or is it just a reflection of the details of the incident?

Given that looking at the Strava data shows that the cyclist was not riding at an excessive speed I don't see how it generates doubt, in my mind it removes doubt and shows the cyclist was clearly in the right and will prevent the driver from claiming that the cyclist was riding at an excessive speed.

On the other hand, even if the Strava data had shown the cyclist was riding at an excessive speed I probably still would have linked it as in my mind facts and evidence (with the proviso that the GPS on a phone has limited accuracy) outweighs my natural bias and sympathy towards the cyclist. I try to be open minded and try not to ignore information because it doesn't agree with my preferred narrative.

Every incident is different and (although clearly not in this specific case) sometimes the vulnerable road user does contribute to an incident and it would be unfair on the other party to pretend otherwise. I understand that more often than not the vulnerable users get the short end of the stick, which was clearly the case in your incident, but other drivers shouldn't be unfairly penalised as a way of balancing the scales (again, this is not relevant to this specific case where, on the evidence available, the driver deserves to have the book thrown at them).

I accept that having never been personally involved in one of these incidents my perspective may be different from those that have.

Edit: Apologies to Oxford & flashpixx for my clumsy quote tree trimming. Strike added through irrelevant comments.
Last edited by Scott_C on Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Red Rider
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Red Rider » Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:39 pm

Oxford wrote:As for the speed, in the context of us discussing it, it is relevant, now there is no doubt about what happens, we have GPS technology giving us speeds, cameras giving us eyewitness accounts of actions, gone are the days of total supposition and now we have educated discussions about actual causal factors involved in the incidents leaving doubt behind.
Spot on.

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Bartek » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:10 pm

Good news Ian has been able/allowed to sit up today (and released from the crucifixion position) also he has been moved to the Shenton Park Annexe for ongoing rehabilitation!
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby find_bruce » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:23 pm

Excellent news bartek

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kx315
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby kx315 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:39 pm

Fantastic news!!!
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Hugor
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Hugor » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:01 pm

I rode through the intersection today. The collision spot is still marked with a white painted circle.
Im a pretty cautious descender but its easy to see how you could go 50k/hr down this hill. There is good visibility in both directions.
Having been in similar situations with near misses, my impression is that it can be quite difficult to judge the speed of a cyclist coming towards you.
I think this is because the frontal profile is so small compared to that of a motor vehicle. The increase in size as a cyclist approaches is more difficult to appreciate.

Best regards to the cyclist and his recovery.

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Thoglette
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Thoglette » Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:46 pm

Hugor wrote:... my impression is that it can be quite difficult to judge the speed of a cyclist coming towards you.
I think this is because the frontal profile is so small compared to that of a motor vehicle.
I used to drive a low, narrow vehicle. I regular issues with "Say What did that come from" from other drivers as it looked much further away than it actually was.

Also, despite being painted bright red, it was regularly "not seen".
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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:01 am

Scott_C wrote:I accept that having never been personally involved in one of these incidents my perspective may be different from those that have.
Which, to me, is a plus. Your perspective is likely to be fairer.

People who have been subject to extremes of tragedy, understandably, are the least able to focus on facts specific to another different case that may share some of the same markers. It is hard to separate another case from their own.
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Aushiker » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:03 am

I assume this relates to this crash but a 73 year old driver has been charged with Dangerous Driving Occasioning Grievous Bodily Harm.

Details in the West Australian

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Scott_C » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:06 pm

The PerthNow story explicitly links it with this incident.

cp123
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby cp123 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:00 pm

thrown from his bicycle? :roll:


Try ... the driver pulled out in front of the cyclist...

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:12 pm

cp123 wrote:thrown from his bicycle? :roll:


Try ... the driver pulled out in front of the cyclist...
Awkward one to describe in brevity however. He appeared to separate from his bike before he got to the car. Probably would have been better tosay "throw from his bicycle as he was taking evasive action as a result of the car pulling out in front of him. However the matter is sub judice so the newspaper would at greater fault than describing it in the simple terms that they have chosen. Once the case is finalised you may see the sort of description that you would prefer.
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wellington_street
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby wellington_street » Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:18 pm

What street was the car pulling out of?

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby dmwill » Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:42 pm

Honour Ave onto Carroll Drive I think.

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby nachoman » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:25 am

The cost of a distracted driver
The 73-year-old driver pleaded guilty to dangerous driving occasioning grievous bodily harm, was fined $5000 and disqualified from driving for two years. Mr Beard said the man was remorseful but he was "a little angry" about the penalty the magistrate imposed when a jail term was an option.

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Sinner » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:55 am

The timing and proximity of the article in the West Australian is rather unfortunate. My first thoughts were of "pouring oil onto flames". The press are really trying to sell papers by emphasising the vehicle versus cyclist battle.

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roller
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby roller » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:36 pm

Sinner wrote:The timing and proximity of the article in the West Australian is rather unfortunate. My first thoughts were of "pouring oil onto flames". The press are really trying to sell papers by emphasising the vehicle versus cyclist battle.
Repeating Mr Beard's plea for cyclists to ride in single file too, I guess because that is something cyclists do that makes them legitimate targets for morotist's anger.

I wonder though, did he say this again? Or are they just rehashing what he said in the days (hours?) following the accident.



Is the $5000 fine and no driving for 2 years adequate?
inflammatory statement or idea

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Dirty32 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:06 pm

nachoman wrote:
Mr Beard said the man was remorseful but he was "a little angry" about the penalty the magistrate imposed when a jail term was an option.
I find that a little bit strange... I mean, sure maybe it'd be hard to come up with that sorta money for some people... But who wants to go to jail at 73?

I would think a $5k fine and a suspended licence is a pretty easy let off for nearly killing someone.

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roller
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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby roller » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:08 pm

Dirty32 wrote:
nachoman wrote:
Mr Beard said the man was remorseful but he was "a little angry" about the penalty the magistrate imposed when a jail term was an option.
I find that a little bit strange... I mean, sure maybe it'd be hard to come up with that sorta money for some people... But who wants to go to jail at 73?

I would think a $5k fine and a suspended licence is a pretty easy let off for nearly killing someone.
I think it means Mr Beard was angry that the motorist wasn't jailed.
inflammatory statement or idea

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Re: Cyclist Hit by Car in Attadale

Postby Dirty32 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:11 pm

Ah, ok... My mistake. I read that wrong.
Didnt realise Mr. Beard was the injured party.

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