Cops want bike respect

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Aushiker
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Cops want bike respect

Postby Aushiker » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:36 pm

reads the headline in an article in the Post Newspaper, August 9, 2014, page 36

Image

Andrew

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yugyug
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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby yugyug » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:33 am

The most offensive thing about that article is the typography. Looks like the font got drunk on the way to the printers.

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flashpixx
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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby flashpixx » Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:37 am

Oxford wrote: ...contributes to the offensive nature of the article. Not to mention the spelling mistake in the first sentence puts you off right from the start.
haha yeah speeling mistoke lol

Seriously tho... how is this article offensive in it's content? Seems reasonable, or am I missing something? :?
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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby InTheWoods » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:11 pm

flashpixx wrote:
Oxford wrote: ...contributes to the offensive nature of the article. Not to mention the spelling mistake in the first sentence puts you off right from the start.
haha yeah speeling mistoke lol

Seriously tho... how is this article offensive in it's content? Seems reasonable, or am I missing something? :?
The bit about concerns with "cyclists occupying a whole lane of traffic" for a start I guess. I vaguely remember the rules are different in WA which means you can't "claim a lane" on a multi-lane but I could be wrong. But anyway, he fails to actually propose any solutions. He has a problem with riders 2 abreast taking up a "whole lane", so what is his solution? Ride single file and get close shaved?

There does need to be give and take. The riders can "give" by using one lane, the car drivers can "take" by using the other lane(s).

What does a minority of riders who run red lights have to do with a) the majority of riders who don't b) "respect" c) frustration of motorists when riders are on the road/occupying a lane... Why did he also not tell motorists to stop running red lights, using their mobile phones why driving, and speeding? Is it only "cyclists" who run reds? Is it all cyclists? Oh its a minority? But wait, its only a minority of drivers who run reds / drunk drive/ speed / use their mobile phone? What does any of this have to do with "respect" and "acceptance"? Nothing.

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby macca33 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:15 pm

InTheWoods wrote:The bit about concerns with "cyclists occupying a whole lane of traffic" for a start I guess. I vaguely remember the rules are different in WA which means you can't "claim a lane" on a multi-lane but I could be wrong. But anyway, he fails to actually propose any solutions. He has a problem with riders 2 abreast taking up a "whole lane", so what is his solution? Ride single file and get close shaved?

There does need to be give and take. The riders can "give" by using one lane, the car drivers can "take" by using the other lane(s).

What does a minority of riders who run red lights have to do with a) the majority of riders who don't b) "respect" c) frustration of motorists when riders are on the road/occupying a lane... Why did he also not tell motorists to stop running red lights, using their mobile phones why driving, and speeding? Is it only "cyclists" who run reds? Is it all cyclists? Oh its a minority? But wait, its only a minority of drivers who run reds / drunk drive/ speed / use their mobile phone? What does any of this have to do with "respect" and "acceptance"? Nothing.


Whilst the formatting and editing of the article is woeful, I dunno where the bloke said he had a 'problem with riders 2 abreast taking up a "whole lane."

What he DID say was he was 'worried about the way some large groups of riders occupied whole lanes of traf(fic),' that 'cyclists are permitted to ride two abreast and drivers will need to be patient, etc...' and 'the problems occur when riders are jostling for position in the bunch and spread out. They end up three or four wide across the road.'

Perhaps a re-read from a height lesser than the top of the soapbox is in order???

cheers
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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Jackfrost » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:22 pm

Groups taking up the whole lane is an issue in an around Freo on the weekends. Sheer arrogance

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Aushiker » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:31 pm

macca33 wrote:Whilst the formatting and editing of the article is woeful, I dunno where the bloke said he had a 'problem with riders 2 abreast taking up a "whole lane."

What he DID say was he was 'worried about the way some large groups of riders occupied whole lanes of traf(fic),' that 'cyclists are permitted to ride two abreast and drivers will need to be patient, etc...' and 'the problems occur when riders are jostling for position in the bunch and spread out. They end up three or four wide across the road.'
The road in question is I believe Curtin Avenue which is a two lane road with a shoulder (painted line). I ride/drive this road a lot and I am not aware of any groups (popular Saturday ride route) that take up the whole lane as implied/suggested/whatever by others.

In my experience what is quite common is one line of cyclists within the shoulder and the other besides them (so just over the left line) or simply riding single file. Neither is either illegal or irresponsible and in fact is probably safer for the riders. For sure sometimes motor vehicle operators may have to wait a few seconds for a safe passing situation and so be it. It is hardly the end of the world.

@InTheWoods the relevant regulation for this road assuming it is Curtin Avenue, is regulation 112 which states:

112. Keeping as far left as practicable
(1) Except where these regulations provide otherwise, a driver shall keep the vehicle as close as practicable to the left boundary of the carriageway, except where 2 or more lanes marked on the carriageway are available exclusively for vehicles travelling in the same direction.


Road Traffic Code 2002 as at July 25, 2014.

Curtin Avenue is a single lane in each direction road.

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby roller » Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:36 pm

Jackfrost wrote:Groups taking up the whole lane is an issue in an around Freo on the weekends. Sheer arrogance
a car with 1 person in it takes up a whole lane, arrogance?
inflammatory statement or idea

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Jackfrost » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:05 pm

roller wrote:
Jackfrost wrote:Groups taking up the whole lane is an issue in an around Freo on the weekends. Sheer arrogance
a car with 1 person in it takes up a whole lane, arrogance?
If they are taking two lanes of a roundabout, yep. If they are driving ahead of other cars at a merge lane to 'beat the other cars', yep. If they don't allow a car indicating space to change lanes, yep. So Yep, there are heaps of example of arrogance displayed by a car with 1 person in a lane.

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Aushiker » Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:37 pm

Jackfrost wrote:
roller wrote:
Jackfrost wrote:Groups taking up the whole lane is an issue in an around Freo on the weekends. Sheer arrogance
a car with 1 person in it takes up a whole lane, arrogance?
If they are taking two lanes of a roundabout, yep. If they are driving ahead of other cars at a merge lane to 'beat the other cars', yep. If they don't allow a car indicating space to change lanes, yep. So Yep, there are heaps of example of arrogance displayed by a car with 1 person in a lane.
Two lanes of a roundabout in Fremantle? Please do share as to what roundabout you are referring to ...

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby outnabike » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:52 pm

I reckon if two cyclists are in front, another two can overtake them, even if they have to use the next lane. It is only just to pass and is no more than cars have to do. The following car just has to wait whilst the cyclists do a legal manoeuvre. I have never had to wait long to get around bikes. Once they pass a slow rider they get back to two abreast. I have personal experience along the Nepean highway....every body overtakes me... :)
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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Jackfrost » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:18 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Two lanes of a roundabout in Fremantle? Please do share as to what roundabout you are referring to ...

Andrew
Who said anything about a roundabout in Freo?

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Aushiker » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:48 pm

Jackfrost wrote:
Aushiker wrote:
Two lanes of a roundabout in Fremantle? Please do share as to what roundabout you are referring to ...

Andrew
Who said anything about a roundabout in Freo?
Clearly not you then. :roll:

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Rex » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:24 am

Last weekend Saturday 16th I was riding in the Freo Saturday Papa's group, which is a very fast river loop.
As we left the Perth CBD, rode past the Esplanade Train Station before getting on Riverside Dr - Mounts Bay a police officer on a bike watched us the whole way.
There was probably 50 of us, riding 2 abreast at times taking up the whole left lane hitting 60km/hr and he didn't mind at all.
As we approached the Narrows Bridge underpass a single cyclist not in the group pulled in front of us and the cop in a display of madness and got a talking to by the police officer which was amusing.
Further up closer to UWA there were another 4 of or 5 cops waiting on the side of the road with a video camera (unsure if the camera was pointing towards us or not).

My point is I was impressed with the tolerance of witnessing a large bunch ride riding along a busy known road at speed, using up the whole left lane.

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yugyug
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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby yugyug » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:29 pm

Why did the cop talk to the cyclist? What did he do illegal?

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby Rex » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:41 am

Because he pulled in front of the large group of cyclists and police office on a motor cycle, coming towards him at about 40km/hr at the time with not much space.
It was the Mounts Bay Rd crossing right underneath Narrow Bridge.

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:40 am

macca33 wrote:
InTheWoods wrote:The bit about concerns with "cyclists occupying a whole lane of traffic" for a start I guess. I vaguely remember the rules are different in WA which means you can't "claim a lane" on a multi-lane but I could be wrong. But anyway, he fails to actually propose any solutions. He has a problem with riders 2 abreast taking up a "whole lane", so what is his solution? Ride single file and get close shaved?

There does need to be give and take. The riders can "give" by using one lane, the car drivers can "take" by using the other lane(s).

What does a minority of riders who run red lights have to do with a) the majority of riders who don't b) "respect" c) frustration of motorists when riders are on the road/occupying a lane... Why did he also not tell motorists to stop running red lights, using their mobile phones why driving, and speeding? Is it only "cyclists" who run reds? Is it all cyclists? Oh its a minority? But wait, its only a minority of drivers who run reds / drunk drive/ speed / use their mobile phone? What does any of this have to do with "respect" and "acceptance"? Nothing.


Whilst the formatting and editing of the article is woeful, I dunno where the bloke said he had a 'problem with riders 2 abreast taking up a "whole lane."

What he DID say was he was 'worried about the way some large groups of riders occupied whole lanes of traf(fic),' that 'cyclists are permitted to ride two abreast and drivers will need to be patient, etc...' and 'the problems occur when riders are jostling for position in the bunch and spread out. They end up three or four wide across the road.'

Perhaps a re-read from a height lesser than the top of the soapbox is in order???

cheers
Spot on. Ox, Macca, the cop is right to be concerned. He is not criticising riders for taking their legal entitlement.
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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:20 am

Macca my reading is that he is worried when riders "take up a whole lane". Why is this a worry? They are allowed to on a multi-lane road.

He says that riding two abreast is ok then says the problem is when they "spread three or four wide across the road". What does he mean by road - a shoulder and a lane, a single lane, multiple lanes ... ? 3 abreast is certainly legal if they are "jockeying for position" if one rider is overtaking 2 other riders in the same lane. If they have 2 riders in one lane and 2 riders in another lane that is legal too, although it would be inconsiderate in many circumstances. But if they have one rider on the shoulder, they can have 2 in the left lane and another rider in the left lane overtaking legally. So that is 4 "across the road" in some people's eyes but really they would be using a single lane, legally.

My point is he hasn't shown any particular activity he is talking about to be illegal, and seems to be expounding the view that cyclists should hug left and not block a whole lane of traffic. The letter is so full of holes and mis-education it defeats its purpose. eg. A car driver reading it may get angry when they see riders riding "four abreast" taking up a lane, even though one rider is on the shoulder, and one rider is overtaking two riding abreast in the road lane.

Having said that I don't doubt there are inconsiderate bunches out there, but I haven't seen a bunch blocking traffic illegally yet. 2 abreast in a lane means that lane is blocked. If a third rider is overtaking in that lane as allowed, they aren't blocking the lane any more than it is. An extra rider on a shoulder looks like four abreast but technically isn't and doesn't change the situation.

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby NewStew » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:20 am

There are certainly inconsiderate bunches out there...... I have been coming along the Shelley foreshore road before and come around a corner to be confronted by bunches taking up the whole ROAD, let alone a lane.... all sprinting in some magical race but not looking around them at other road users. Or groups riding three abreast on a cycle path and expecting traffic coming the other way to be giving way to them.

Then again the majority of groups are good - I do kind of wish however that there was a law limiting the size of a group that could ride on the road together outside an organised event.... I think 15 would be a good start.

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Re: Cops want bike respect

Postby InTheWoods » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:57 am

NewStew wrote:There are certainly inconsiderate bunches out there...... I have been coming along the Shelley foreshore road before and come around a corner to be confronted by bunches taking up the whole ROAD, let alone a lane.... all sprinting in some magical race but not looking around them at other road users. Or groups riding three abreast on a cycle path and expecting traffic coming the other way to be giving way to them.
Idiots. Dumb pack mentality - humans do things they wouldn't normally do when you put them in a group.

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