Be grateful
-
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:17 pm
Be grateful
Postby worzel » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:33 pm
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6605
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Be grateful
Postby Thoglette » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:18 pm
They are there - just the devil's own job to find. Mostly dual use "paths" and "foot paths" but there's some cycle specific stuff coming (google barclays cycle superhighway).worzel wrote: I haven't seen any cycle paths.
Most are not set up for 30kph cycling so it's back on the roads. However like here you can often find routes on lesser streets that have car proof dead ends etc.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
-
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:41 am
Re: Be grateful
Postby BaldPatch » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:27 pm
I find the comment rather disturbing...
Do people really think it is acceptable to ride at 30km/h on a shared path?
- Tandem
- Posts: 110
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:34 pm
- Location: Sinagra, Perth
Re: Be grateful
Postby Tandem » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:40 pm
Yes I think it is.It all depends on the condition and as long we use common sense I can't see a problem.BaldPatch wrote:Most are not set up for 30kph cycling so it's back on the roads.
I find the comment rather disturbing...
Do people really think it is acceptable to ride at 30km/h on a shared path?
-
- Posts: 1791
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:25 pm
Re: Be grateful
Postby wellington_street » Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:47 pm
-
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 7:40 pm
Re: Be grateful
Postby citywomble » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:20 pm
BaldPatch and wellington_street, ironically you are both right.
In some circumstances the conditions and common sense may not cause a problem, until pedestrians act unpredictably or step onto or cross the shared path (and they have right of way if they do so). That is why the primary 'design guidance' for cyclist infrastructure Austroads, part 6A, figure 2.1 is very clear that even moderately trafficked shared paths are not an appropriate facility where bicycle speeds exceed 20 km/h.
For that reason I agree with BaldPatch.
But, despite Austroads, large sections of PSP have been set up for speeds of 30 km/h and above and have many cyclists maintaining 40 km/h on the flat.
For that reason I agree with Wellington_street.
The issue here is that speeds greater than 20 on a shared path are dangerous for pedestrians. They are also dangerous for cyclists. Not just physically but also legally. In the event that a pedestrian is KSI then almost certainly the cyclist would be guilty and, even worse, the law in WA has been changed specifically in response to a cycle/ped fatality on a shared path to allow up to 8 years jail.
Should we slow speeds on many shared paths -yes.
Should we slow speeds on PSPs - NO, the intent of the PSP network is to facilitate fast commuting cycling.
What is the answer? Give the pedestrians an alternative and ban them from PSPs by building new Principal Bike Paths and converting existing PSPs (this need was actually foreseen in the PBN Plan drafted in the 1990's and conveniently overlooked). Otherwise how can a fast cyclist "give way to any pedestrian that is on or crossing a shared path" especially when they can enter or cross from out of sight.
If cyclists don't want to potentially held liable for serious accidents with pedestrians then start advocating for fast bike paths because, currently, they ain't here in WA. They are footpaths called PSPs in red asphalt.
- flashpixx
- Posts: 746
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:04 pm
- Location: Maylands WA
Re: Be grateful
Postby flashpixx » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:44 pm
If cyclists don't want to potentially held liable for serious accidents with pedestrians then start advocating for fast bike paths because, currently, they ain't here in WA. They are footpaths called PSPs in red asphalt.[/quote]
The only path I have ridden that is anywhere near satisfactory for 30+ kmh is the bicycle only path on Burswood - Sth Perth foreshore. For an ex motorcycle rider it has the added benefit on curves I've not ridden any of the Kwinana freeway path South of Canning Bridge .... yet
Riding: Trek Domane SLR 7
-
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:05 pm
Re: Be grateful
Postby tomness » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:54 am
[/quote]flashpixx wrote:The only path I have ridden that is anywhere near satisfactory for 30+ kmh is the bicycle only path on Burswood - Sth Perth foreshore. For an ex motorcycle rider it has the added benefit on curves I've not ridden any of the Kwinana freeway path South of Canning Bridge .... yetcitywomble wrote: If cyclists don't want to potentially held liable for serious accidents with pedestrians then start advocating for fast bike paths because, currently, they ain't here in WA. They are footpaths called PSPs in red asphalt.
And yet pedestrians, mainly joggers, still use this bike only path, despite there being a pedestrian path just next to the bike path. So what is the cyclists liability if they hit a pedestrian on the bike only path?
- exadios
- Posts: 515
- Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:07 am
- Location: Melville, WA
- Contact:
Re: Be grateful
Postby exadios » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:11 pm
And yet pedestrians, mainly joggers, still use this bike only path, despite there being a pedestrian path just next to the bike path. So what is the cyclists liability if they hit a pedestrian on the bike only path?[/quote][/quote][/quote]tomness wrote:flashpixx wrote:The only path I have ridden that is anywhere near satisfactory for 30+ kmh is the bicycle only path on Burswood - Sth Perth foreshore. For an ex motorcycle rider it has the added benefit on curves I've not ridden any of the Kwinana freeway path South of Canning Bridge .... yetcitywomble wrote: If cyclists don't want to potentially held liable for serious accidents with pedestrians then start advocating for fast bike paths because, currently, they ain't here in WA. They are footpaths called PSPs in red asphalt.
I don't have an answer to the legal question. But, given that the path runs through a public park, I think that a proper assessment of the risks would mean that 30+Km/h is way too fast for most bikes.
- bychosis
- Posts: 7250
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Be grateful
Postby bychosis » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:18 pm
- Mulger bill
- Super Mod
- Posts: 29060
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
- Location: Sunbury Vic
Re: Be grateful
Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:02 pm
This seems too logical, gotta be a snag somewhere...bychosis wrote:30km/h on a share path is only too fast if you are actually sharing it. I there is noone else around, and no risk of a surprise pedestrian popping out from a hidden area then why not. Exercise some caution, mix with courtesy and it's easy to travel at 30, but knock it down to under 25km/h if there is other traffic around and knock it down further if the traffic is not predicatble (ie kids or mutts)
London Boy 29/12/2011
- bychosis
- Posts: 7250
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Be grateful
Postby bychosis » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:00 am
Yup, the fun police. My commuting share path has a recommended speed of either 10 or 15km/hMulger bill wrote:This seems too logical, gotta be a snag somewhere...bychosis wrote:30km/h on a share path is only too fast if you are actually sharing it. I there is noone else around, and no risk of a surprise pedestrian popping out from a hidden area then why not. Exercise some caution, mix with courtesy and it's easy to travel at 30, but knock it down to under 25km/h if there is other traffic around and knock it down further if the traffic is not predicatble (ie kids or mutts)
- Mububban
- Posts: 3043
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:19 pm
Re: Be grateful
Postby Mububban » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:11 pm
- Thoglette
- Posts: 6605
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:01 pm
Re: Be grateful
Postby Thoglette » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:19 pm
+1. Or 2. I have several 200m+ no-access bits on my PSPs and regularly (I keep weird hours) no pedestrians on it.bychosis wrote:30km/h on a share path is only too fast if you are actually sharing it. I there is noone else around, and no risk of a surprise pedestrian popping out from a hidden area then why not.
Yet at other times, it's a fast walking pace with the bell going.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
- bychosis
- Posts: 7250
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:10 pm
- Location: Lake Macquarie
Re: Be grateful
Postby bychosis » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:30 pm
Me thinks 10km/h is a tad too slow, it's not easy staying upright at that speed. (In the fine print under "ride slowly")
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Cycling Brands
- Cannondale
- Garmin
- Giant
- Shimano
- Trek
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.