Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

archetuthus
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Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby archetuthus » Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:53 pm

According to the News and 6PR a Female Cyclist was hit buy an SUV on Kings Park Road this morning. She is current in hospital in Critical Condition. Wish her all the luck and hope she comes out ok.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/cycli ... 1h9ez.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Aushiker
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Aushiker » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:31 pm

archetuthus wrote:According to the News and 6PR a Female Cyclist was hit buy an SUV on Kings Park Road this morning. She is current in hospital in Critical Condition. Wish her all the luck and hope she comes out ok.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/cycli ... 1h9ez.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not good. Help is needed in identifying the cyclist. A reminder to always carry ID.

Also I noted these comment in the article ... a plus for reporting the bicycle rider being hit by the vehicle instead of the other way round
Police are trying to trace the identity of a female cyclist in a critical condition in Royal Perth Hospital after being hit by a car in West Perth on Wednesday morning....
and
Senior Constable Allan Mawdesley said the driver's mobile phone had been seized and that police were looking into the possibility she was using it immediately prior to the incident.
Andrew

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:51 pm

I note a reference to police checking her phone. So it is almost a certainty that some jackass here determine fault and cause on that basis and on nothing else.

At this stage taking a look at her mobile probably is an indication of little excpet it was an accident with no obvious reason. I imagine that that is fairly normal to do so just as taking a breathalyser reading of a motorist involved in a serious incident is.

Tragedies like this certainly seem to be a far more common than, say, a decade ago. :(
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outnabike
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby outnabike » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:07 pm

Yep,
No different to checking the tyres for braking ability ,the brakes, or a breath test. The police would have all those bases covered.
Most folk have a phone on them and it would be a pretty normal thing to check. some things are written in a suggestive way to make us tut tut a bit.
Lets hope the poor lady gets through the ordeal.
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Aushiker
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Aushiker » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:14 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:At this stage taking a look at her mobile probably is an indication of little excpet it was an accident with no obvious reason. I imagine that that is fairly normal to do so just as taking a breathalyser reading of a motorist involved in a serious incident is.
(1) Mobile phones are not normally mentioned in the press reports I have seen but in this instance the Police Officer specifically mentioned it ...
Senior Constable Allan Mawdesley said the driver's mobile phone had been seized and that police were looking into the possibility she was using it immediately prior to the incident.
(2)
The cyclist - believed to be in her 50s - was not carrying any identification when she was struck from behind by a silver Toyota Rav4 travelling west along Kings Park Road just before 10am.
(3)
Mr McQueen said the female driver of the car, estimated to be in her late 20s or early 30s, was "screaming" and hysterical.
Putting one with two and maybe adding in three I would suggest that there is reasonable evidence to suggest a mobile phone may have played a role in this crash.

As to your comment on checking mobile phone usage. I can only comment based on my own experience (and of course your own experience might be different) but with every single instance I have reported to the Police I have never been asked about whether I observed a mobile phone was being used nor have I been asked if I had video evidence of same and that is despite providing video evidence of the incident of concern, i.e., I have never been asked for video showing the driver specifically so I am not so sure it is a standard procedure at all. I know with my partners crash ( a person drove through a stop sign) it never came up in any questioning of her account of the incident.

Also with the Coles driver incident it was shown that it is very hard to prove mobile phone usage contributed to the incident and from what is observed in respect to Police handling of incidents where it is hard to substantial an aspect it seems to be quickly not given serious consideration.

Andrew

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby citywomble » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:57 pm

I hope she survives and recovers fully. It's almost incomprehensible that someone can drive into the back of a cyclist on this road, especially at 10.00 am with the sun coming from the side irrespective of direction.

I always recommend that my friends get the mobile number of anyone "so that I can call you later );" that they have an accident with - and then ring it immediately. That sets a time record which places the time of accident, and any prior use on the phones record. One of my friends did just that and provided incontrovertible evidence that the other vehicle driver was using the phone just two minutes before - insurance and police cave in, friend blameless.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby JBark » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:51 pm

So what are the good ways to ride to the west side of West Perth? Just relocated offices to near the corner of Richardson and Thomas, and I'm at a bit of a loss how best to get there from the Kwinana PSP. I'd already decided against Kings Park Rd because of what happened here, chances of being hit from behind are too high (certainly looks like that's what happened based on the damage to the car). Parking on the side, no bike lane, cars usually doing well over the speed limit, and a perfectly straight road that has you focusing on the lights at Thomas instead of right in front of the car.

Hay St seems like a no go, the steep uphill means the speed differential will be really high, plus tons of traffic. Maybe up around to Parliament -> Havelock -> Ord and then over to Richardson somewhere?

I see plenty of people riding around, so there must be some decent routes through there.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Hugor » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:02 pm

Gruesome reporting!
Wide road, great visibility, off peak traffic, rear end collision.
Reeks of mobile phone usage to me.

This demographic of driver is my greatest fear on the roads for this very reason.
Presumptive .... yeh whatever, but I see it all the time so it fits.

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Red Rider
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Red Rider » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:35 pm

Terribly shocking. The impact must have been horrific. My thoughts are with her.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby wellington_street » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:14 pm

JBark wrote:So what are the good ways to ride to the west side of West Perth? Just relocated offices to near the corner of Richardson and Thomas, and I'm at a bit of a loss how best to get there from the Kwinana PSP. I'd already decided against Kings Park Rd because of what happened here, chances of being hit from behind are too high (certainly looks like that's what happened based on the damage to the car). Parking on the side, no bike lane, cars usually doing well over the speed limit, and a perfectly straight road that has you focusing on the lights at Thomas instead of right in front of the car.

Hay St seems like a no go, the steep uphill means the speed differential will be really high, plus tons of traffic. Maybe up around to Parliament -> Havelock -> Ord and then over to Richardson somewhere?

I see plenty of people riding around, so there must be some decent routes through there.
Depends on your confidence in traffic - i see a dozen or more cyclists riding up Hay St in the left lane in the afternoons when im in that area. Otherwise the route you mentioned via Parliament Place.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby citywomble » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:20 pm

Wearing a bright yellow Lycra riding top too on a sunny day!
Absolutely incomprehensible how anyone could hit her from behind, apart from the obvious.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:14 pm

Aushiker wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:At this stage taking a look at her mobile probably is an indication of little excpet it was an accident with no obvious reason. I imagine that that is fairly normal to do so just as taking a breathalyser reading of a motorist involved in a serious incident is.

Putting one with two and maybe adding in three I would suggest that there is reasonable evidence to suggest a mobile phone may have played a role in this crash.

As to your comment on checking mobile phone usage. I can only comment based on my own experience (and of course your own experience might be different) but with every single instance I have reported to the Police I have never been asked about whether I observed a mobile phone was being used nor have I been asked if I had video evidence of same and that is despite providing video evidence of the incident of concern, i.e., I have never been asked for video showing the driver specifically so I am not so sure it is a standard procedure at all. I know with my partners crash ( a person drove through a stop sign) it never came up in any questioning of her account of the incident.

Andrew
My car was impounded along with two others when I had a serious accident involving serious injury (mine) from a life threatening accident that was always going to go to the courts. On the other hand I have been involved in a number of vehicle accidents over my many years years that did not involve any personal damage. Cops never wanted to impound any vehicles in those cases. What they do when you submit a video of some alleged incident that does not result in serious injury is neither here nor there I respectfully suggest.

I am pretty certain that the cops have also impounded the vehicle and will be scrutinizing it for possible mechanical issues. But I am not going to infer that she had a poorly maintained car with faulty brakes, unserviced power steering and carbon monoxide pouring into the cabin from a faulty exhaust. Just one more base to cover.

I still go with my suggestion that checking a phone would, these days, be fairly standard FOR SERIOUS ACCIDENTS/INJURY. And that nothing should be inferred from that. I was pleased to note that, while it referred to the interest in the phone, channel seven managed it in a manner that sounded very much like it was not inference of anything untoward, just one possibility to be checked.

Andrew, I'm a little surprised that you, of all here, would be willing to infer so much from so little. And it IS very little. The cops will do their job and there is no reason to get ahead of those investigations at this early stage. Which, unfortunately, too many cyclists are prone to do every bit as badly as many drivers do against cyclists.
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:32 pm

citywomble wrote:I hope she survives and recovers fully. It's almost incomprehensible that someone can drive into the back of a cyclist on this road, especially at 10.00 am with the sun coming from the side irrespective of direction.

I always recommend that my friends get the mobile number of anyone "so that I can call you later );" that they have an accident with - and then ring it immediately. That sets a time record which places the time of accident, and any prior use on the phones record. One of my friends did just that and provided incontrovertible evidence that the other vehicle driver was using the phone just two minutes before - insurance and police cave in, friend blameless.
Yep, inconcievable and it happens seemingly daily. :cry:

That is a truly inspired suggestion to establish the time. I hope I remember it if the occasion arises. Brilliant!
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Aushiker » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:02 am

The West Australian has more updated information on the crash at https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/254 ... est-perth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It seems the bicycle rider was a 70 year old lady from South Perth.
Sen-Const. Allan Mawdesley said police had interviewed several witnesses.

“My understanding is the cyclist was staying in a straight line and was as far to the left as possible when the silver Rav4 struck her,” he said....

Sen-Const. Mawdesley said the driver’s mobile phone would be seized so police could check whether she was distracted at the time of the collision.

Speed is not believed to have been a factor in the crash.
Andrew

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby rolandp » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:27 am

As well as
Today’s incident has sparked new calls from WA’s peak cycling body for the immediate introduction of safe-passing laws.

The legislation to make motorists leave a safe distance when over-taking bike riders is currently before State Parliament.
WestCycle chief executive Clint Shaw said the new laws would require motorists to give cyclists a one metre berth on roads with a 60km/h speed limit and 1.5m on faster roads.

“We've been concerned for quite some time now that the trend of cycling fatalities is increasing and we need to do more,” he said.

“(Safe passing laws) have already been trialled in Queensland and the ACT. It’s something we really need over here.”

Mr Shaw said he was “gutted” when told about today’s crash.

“From within the cycling community we definitely feel it,” he said.

“It's a fear that goes through lots of people and stories like this are what we dread everyday.”

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Sinner » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:45 am

I wonder whether the proposed safe passing law would have had any effect at all here. This seems more of a case of SMIDSY whether it was phone or any other distraction.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Aushiker » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:28 pm

Sinner wrote:I wonder whether the proposed safe passing law would have had any effect at all here. This seems more of a case of SMIDSY ....
It does, but at least at last WestCycle is speaking out on these issues. I suspect that it is because CycleSnail of Bicycle Transport Alliance is now actively engaged with WestCycle on the transportation side and so hopefully will work with them to get more engaged on such issues. That said one would never want a crash like this to happen before the speaking out takes place.

Andrew

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby CycleSnail » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:24 pm

These crashes are tragic, and seeing this person is very close to my own age makes me cringe - recovery for her will be hard..., but I hope nevertheless for a good outcome for her.
Sinner wrote:I wonder whether the proposed safe passing law would have had any effect at all here. This seems more of a case of SMIDSY whether it was phone or any other distraction.
A legalised safe passing distance is not a silver bullet that will fix all motorist/bike rider problems and incidents. But clear legal protection for people who ride bicycles will shift the discussion and awareness of road users. Instead of the current "you should leave some space, at your discretion, when you overtake a bike rider" it would be "If you don't leave at least one meter EVERY TIME whilst overtaking a person riding a bicycle we will catch you and fine you".

No road user is more exposed to serious injury as a result of driver distraction than people riding bicycles. And we need to continue to work towards, and support, laws that help. Safe passing distance or strict liability laws and use of footpaths for all riders will all contribute to a safer road environment.
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:22 pm

Hugor wrote:Gruesome reporting!
Wide road, great visibility, off peak traffic, rear end collision.
Reeks of mobile phone usage to me.

This demographic of driver is my greatest fear on the roads for this very reason.
Presumptive .... yeh whatever, but I see it all the time so it fits.
(My emphasis of Hugors post)

Yeah. And drivers claim to see cyclists going through red lights, moving across without warning, jumping from paths to roads etc. Therefore feel free to make the presumptive case that a cyclist did just that every time a motorist runs into the back of a cyclist. After all, that is what all the hateful comments at the end of news articles describing bike fatalities bring forth. :roll:

I find those sort sorts of rush to judgement offensive just as I do when you do the same.

Meanwhile I'll just wait and see what the police turn up. I am probably wasting my time but I'd urge you and many others to do the same. Leave the low-info presumptions to the haters in the smoke boxes.
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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:27 pm

CycleSnail wrote:These crashes are tragic, and seeing this person is very close to my own age makes me cringe - recovery for her will be hard..., but I hope nevertheless for a good outcome for her.
Sinner wrote:I wonder whether the proposed safe passing law would have had any effect at all here. This seems more of a case of SMIDSY whether it was phone or any other distraction.
A legalised safe passing distance is not a silver bullet that will fix all motorist/bike rider problems and incidents. But clear legal protection for people who ride bicycles will shift the discussion and awareness of road users. Instead of the current "you should leave some space, at your discretion, when you overtake a bike rider" it would be "If you don't leave at least one meter EVERY TIME whilst overtaking a person riding a bicycle we will catch you and fine you".

No road user is more exposed to serious injury as a result of driver distraction than people riding bicycles. And we need to continue to work towards, and support, laws that help. Safe passing distance or strict liability laws and use of footpaths for all riders will all contribute to a safer road environment.
I agree with you Heinrich that a legalised safe passign distance does not fix everything. Though if the car before such a driver slows because ofa legal imperative, then pulls out when there is sufficient room to get by, the chance of that maneuvre being missed by the trailing driver is probably a lot less than otherwise. Or the trailing driver simply runs into the back of the slowing lead car, a better outcome than running into the back of a cyclist.

Good luck with the ongoing battle Heinrich.
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Hugor
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby Hugor » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:13 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: (My emphasis of Hugors post)
Yeah. And drivers claim to see cyclists going through red lights, moving across without warning, jumping from paths to roads etc. Therefore feel free to make the presumptive case that a cyclist did just that every time a motorist runs into the back of a cyclist. After all, that is what all the hateful comments at the end of news articles describing bike fatalities bring forth. :roll:

I find those sort sorts of rush to judgement offensive just as I do when you do the same.

Meanwhile I'll just wait and see what the police turn up. I am probably wasting my time but I'd urge you and many others to do the same. Leave the low-info presumptions to the haters in the smoke boxes.
Hey I'm not alone in my presumptive approach to this.
The Dutch and Danes have presumptive liability legislation with collisions involving cars and cyclists or any other "vulnerable road user" for a long time.
There is a massive movement for the Brits to follow suit and it will probably occur in the next few years.
This doesn't mean that the cyclist is never at fault but it assumes that in the absence of evidence to the contrary they are.
Rear ended road collisions are approached in the same manner and this case should be no different,

I don't care if you find my comments offensive. I find unicycles pointless and stupid too. We're all entitled to our opinion.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby fixed » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:25 am

Channel Nein reporter phoned me this morning asking if I knew who the rider was. Even if I did I would not tell them.
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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby NewStew » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:04 pm

I agree with the comments about presumptive liability approach. The issue with the minimum passing distances as I see it are two fold, firstly if a motorist has come up behind, slows and then passes within say 0.6m of me at a speed differential of maybe 10km/h it is more than likely perfectly safe as they are paying attention and taking proper care for the cyclist, however this would be an offence under a minimum passing distance and secondly however would it be enforced? Who is the yardstick for what is 1m and what is 900mm etc etc, you would never get a conviction unless there is clear evidence of a close pass - that is a hit. Perhaps a hybrid with presumptive liability and recommended passing distances where you can be charged with dangerous driving for committing an unsafe pass if you are inside those distances without proper care being taken (such as slowing to a low differential speed)???

In the meantime I really hope that the person hit makes a full physical and mental recovery and can enjoy getting on a bike again one day soon....

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby twowheels » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:45 pm

Will be interesting to hear the phone log outcome. WA members may remember the recent case of the driver who hit a Coles home delivery bloke. There was a question of driver mobile phone use in that matter also.

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Re: Cyclist Hit Kings Park this morning

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:24 am

There's been no followup at all on this story. I assume that the cyclist has now been identified.
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