Cyclist in crash on Beaufort St this morning

[Jackfrost]

The driver should be done for attempted murder and the cyclist should be done for property damage.

Both parties need to be made an example of.

[franjae]

One of the video news reports shows a closeup of the car windscreen smashed at the top of the passenger side. It looks like it could have happened from punching it pretty hard.

I once spent a very enjoyable 20 minutes watching a bloke try and smash a side window on his car to retrieve the keys he had locked inside. It took all his effort with a house brick to finally get in, so I doubt someone could punch a window out. I suspect the car going over the bike may have caused the window to break.

Mr Holland said he did in the news clip.....

[eldavo]

"banging on the car bonnet" spoken by the reporter not Mr Holland, doesn't usually translate to breaking the windscreen, but YMMV.
Other words written were he 'banged on the car', glass or window haven't been mentioned have they? All of which should be taken like a pinch of salt anyway, it is the media, ask a Police officer what their statements are, and how they come out in the press to gauge how much you can read into things.

As Colin suggested leave the judgements to the judiciary.

PS: Just saw this comment linked from the 9 news facebook post on it, poster claiming to be another driver witness prior to incident. Less "Hulk" defense when there are accounts of repeated aggressive behaviour:

[biker jk]

If Mr Holland chased you down and hit your car hard enough to break the windscreen, what would you do? You are unlikely to see him again and you'll have to fix the windscreen yourself, and you are not in a very good mood, and it is hot.....

The driver of the car must definitely be charged, but it goes to show that the cyclist should never provoke any drivers as we do not know what state of mind they are in. We have no protection from a car trying to mow you down.

"What would you do?". Yes, it's perfectly understandable to run over the cyclist in this case.

[argybargy]

I recall back to an article posted here (or somewhere related) recently about the cycling movement in California and the issue they had there... the point that I want to extract from the article was the 'movement' of getting cyclists to turn up to court cases - with visible support, such as wearing helmets, or at least carrying them.

I wonder if organising this sort of a response between the different cycling groups is worthwhile to try and gain a bit of visibility?

Does anyone have thoughts on that?
(or am i in the wrong forum for that?)

[Hugor]

Jodie Bourne should be privatising her account i.e. remove her profile pic and most other identifying information. Well done to her but she's making herself a target.

[Timeonabike]

I recall back to an article posted here (or somewhere related) recently about the cycling movement in California and the issue they had there... the point that I want to extract from the article was the 'movement' of getting cyclists to turn up to court cases - with visible support, such as wearing helmets, or at least carrying them.

I wonder if organising this sort of a response between the different cycling groups is worthwhile to try and gain a bit of visibility?

Does anyone have thoughts on that?
(or am i in the wrong forum for that?)

Would be a good way to remind the Magistrate and the media that there are lots of cyclists who face less than considerate motorists on a daily basis.

I was going to suggest the same thing, but you beat me to it.

[Mediocratus]

No doubt the driver can expect a VERY hard slap on the wrist coming their way.

How many times are we going to have this line trotted out. It was stale five years ago and it's stale this year.

I get angry with some sentencing too. But piddling sentences are nowhere near a certainty despite too many posting as though it is.

Piddling sentences are not the rule everywhere. This woman got 15 years for a hit and run death in Texas.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 950313.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Thoglette]

The driver should be charged with attempted murder, but I bet they're not even fined...

I was considering this on the ride home. Murder requires premeditation and "acts of passion" (which this was reported as in The West) don't always clear that bar. There is no "attempted manslaughter" that I am aware of.

The West reported lesser (but more easily proved) charges from the traffic act. Depending on what admissible evidence the police find, they may upgrade the charges (eg. Aggravated Assault might be provable in this case).

There's also civil remedies available.

[CXCommuter]

The driver should be done for attempted murder and the cyclist should be done for property damage.

Both parties need to be made an example of.

After the cyclist admitting he smashed the windscreen this is true (after being harrassed by the car). I was taught- two wrongs don't make a right, this just escalated to three wrongs and still further away from a right. This whole sorry state of affairs has NO innocent parties.

[mikesbytes]

This isn't a case of driver error, the cyclist was under the car because he was deliberately driven into. It is not a traffic offence and it's not self defence. The circumstances prior are different events. If you are unhappy as to what happened prior then you contact the authorities

[CXCommuter]

This isn't a case of driver error, the cyclist was under the car because he was deliberately driven into. It is not a traffic offence and it's not self defence. The circumstances prior are different events. If you are unhappy as to what happened prior then you contact the authorities

This isn't a case of cyclist error- the windscreen was smashed because it was deliberately hit. It is not a traffic offence and it's not self defence it is Malicious Damage. The circumstances prior are NOT different events it is all 1 escalation event.

I am NOT putting both actions (and the drivers earlier poor driving) on the same level as the final outcome but the whole sorry state of affairs covers the whole us vs them mentality with anger, spite and stupidity in both the cyclist and the drivers actions.

We as a society have a huge problem with interaction within and between users of our roads and people are dying or being seriously injured and will continue to do so until a shift in our behaviors occur, unfortunately cyclists are the piggy in the middle.

[lard]

The driver should be charged with attempted murder, but I bet they're not even fined...

I was considering this on the ride home. Murder requires premeditation and "acts of passion" (which this was reported as in The West) don't always clear that bar. There is no "attempted manslaughter" that I am aware of.

The West reported lesser (but more easily proved) charges from the traffic act. Depending on what admissible evidence the police find, they may upgrade the charges (eg. Aggravated Assault might be provable in this case).

There's also civil remedies available.

I think the possible damage done should be considered in the charge. You fire a gun at someone, there's a fair chance you could kill them, and would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon? You punch someone in the stomach, they're not likely to die, common assault. You drive a 1.5t car at a bike rider, there's a very high chance you're going to do serious damage. Assault with a deadly weapon sounds reasonable, if not, attempted murder. Does such a charge exist is Australia? or is it an American thing?

[Cycleops70]

If you are unhappy as to what happened prior then you contact the authorities

I agree. However from my own experience the authorities will take no action unless someone hits you.
In which case this is too late.
Until the police & other authorities start intervening and addressing driving behaviour before it leads to a collision, the “road toll” will continue.

I experience poor & deliberate dangerous driving almost every time I am on the road, & it will continue until;
A, the drivers behaviour is addressed by police
B, They kill or injure someone

‘A’ is unlikely to happen.

I’d love to see some education or campaign for drivers to understand why cyclists do what they do. Too much animosity comes from ignorance & misunderstanding.
For example;
Not understanding how roads are funded or why we pay rego
Is it a bike lane or just a shoulder
Why a cyclist is not using a “perfectly good” bike path (shared path)

Instead we get a Premier who would like to see cyclists “in single file for a sart”

[citywomble]

The driver has been charged with a fairly serious criminal charge.
"act or omission causing bodily harm", according to a quich search on WA Criminal Code (s304) carries a maximum penalty of 7 years prison. In addition "reckless driving" is a traffic offence carrying up to 2years imprisonment.

There is no doubt that the police, who are first hand witnesses to the event, are taking this seriously and it is hard to see the motorist being able to avoid some jail time.

[CXCommuter]

The driver has been charged with a fairly serious criminal charge.
"act or omission causing bodily harm", according to a quich search on WA Criminal Code (s304) carries a maximum penalty of 7 years prison. In addition "reckless driving" is a traffic offence carrying up to 2years imprisonment.

There is no doubt that the police, who are first hand witnesses to the event, are taking this seriously and it is hard to see the motorist being able to avoid some jail time.

Good

[casual_cyclist]

I am NOT putting both actions (and the drivers earlier poor driving) on the same level as the final outcome but the whole sorry state of affairs covers the whole us vs them mentality with anger, spite and stupidity in both the cyclist and the drivers actions.

IMO both the cyclist and the motorist committed offenses. Noting that no action justifies the response of the motorist, have a look at the penalties to see how serious the offenses are.

If convicted, the cyclist may at most get a small fine and a slap on the wrist. If convicted, the motorist may get a fine, prison time and a criminal record. Depending on a lot of things, even if he gets a suspended sentence, he will still have to live with a criminal record. This can seriously impact on employment prospects.

[CXCommuter]

I am NOT putting both actions (and the drivers earlier poor driving) on the same level as the final outcome but the whole sorry state of affairs covers the whole us vs them mentality with anger, spite and stupidity in both the cyclist and the drivers actions.

IMO both the cyclist and the motorist committed offenses. Noting that no action justifies the response of the motorist, have a look at the penalties to see how serious the offenses are.

If convicted, the cyclist may at most get a small fine and a slap on the wrist. If convicted, the motorist may get a fine, prison time and a criminal record. Depending on a lot of things, even if he gets a suspended sentence, he will still have to live with a criminal record. This can seriously impact on employment prospects.

Agreed

[Sinner]

"banging on the car bonnet" spoken by the reporter not Mr Holland, doesn't usually translate to breaking the windscreen, but YMMV.
Other words written were he 'banged on the car', glass or window haven't been mentioned have they? All of which should be taken like a pinch of salt anyway, it is the media, ask a Police officer what their statements are, and how they come out in the press to gauge how much you can read into things.

As Colin suggested leave the judgements to the judiciary.

PS: Just saw this comment linked from the 9 news facebook post on it, poster claiming to be another driver witness prior to incident. Less "Hulk" defense when there are accounts of repeated aggressive behaviour:

Jodie Bourne indicated that the driver wanted to get past her, but the cyclists were in the bus lane and so he couldn't get by either way. However, at that time of day the bus lane IS a bus lane; i.e. cars shouldn't be in it!!! So he should have just chilled and waited patiently....

[mikesbytes]

Seems the police are taking the correct course of action

Is there any news on the condition of the cyclist?

In WA are you allowed to cycle in the bus lane?

[casual_cyclist]

Seems the police are taking the correct course of action

Seems like it.

Is there any news on the condition of the cyclist?

According to the media report "Mr Holland [the cyclist] said he could not believe he had escaped with just cuts, grazes and bruises."[1]

In WA are you allowed to cycle in the bus lane?

According to the signage on Beaufort Street, where the incident happened, you can [2]

[1] http://readnow.isentia.com/articleprese ... searchable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[2] viewtopic.php?f=18&t=61908#p931053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Red Rider]

In WA are you allowed to cycle in the bus lane?

According to the signage on Beaufort Street, where the incident happened, you can [2]

[2] viewtopic.php?f=18&t=61908#p931053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The photo in the link is in Inglewood, where the signs are for bikes and buses. Where the incident took place is in Northbridge, which is buses only. Brisbane St is where the change is from bus only to bus & bikes.

[casual_cyclist]

The photo in the link is in Inglewood, where the signs are for bikes and buses. Where the incident took place is in Northbridge, which is buses only. Brisbane St is where the change is from bus only to bus & bikes.

Ok. Cheers. I didn't know that. So if I can ride in a lane, will there always be a bicycle sign?

[eldavo]

I wonder how late the driver was for where he was going in such a hurry. Or maybe he was lost and trying to find the quickest way to East Perth Police Station for directions?

[ColinOldnCranky]

I am NOT putting both actions (and the drivers earlier poor driving) on the same level as the final outcome but the whole sorry state of affairs covers the whole us vs them mentality with anger, spite and stupidity in both the cyclist and the drivers actions.

IMO both the cyclist and the motorist committed offenses. Noting that no action justifies the response of the motorist, have a look at the penalties to see how serious the offenses are.

If convicted, the cyclist may at most get a small fine and a slap on the wrist. If convicted, the motorist may get a fine, prison time and a criminal record. Depending on a lot of things, even if he gets a suspended sentence, he will still have to live with a criminal record. This can seriously impact on employment prospects.

Not true, too absolute. Why do people continue to state such expectations as certainties, it does not make the statement more credible, just the opposite.

I share your and others frustration but I KNOW that occasionally a serious sentence is applied to a serious offender. Now a CREDIBLE way of expressing your (aka my) frustration would be "Very unlikely that the motorist will get a sentence likely to give others cause NOT to take such deliberate action in future." Which is about what I see coming out of previous cases.

I find it particularly galling when it is reported that the magistrate states emphatically that the court needs to send a strong message to others not to do the same and then suspends the sentence. This has happened on more than one occasion in recent times.