Angry Commodore driver in Applecross this morning

[thestaph]

A brief heads up for fellow river loopers, I was stopped at the intersection of Nisbet and Duncraig Roads around 645am this morning by a very agro gent in a Commodore wagon.

He wished to express to me in no uncertain terms his infuriation with cyclists continually not stopping at the stop sign at that intersection. He thought that it was most appropriate to express his displeasure by stopping his vehicle across the intersection to block me from turning left from Nisbet onto Duncraig Rd. I endured around a minute of his tirade before pleasantly ending our conversation and moving to ride around his vehicle, at which point he drove off.

I'll hate me for saying it, but whilst his methods were inappropriate he probably does have a bit of a point- I've seen many of us turn left without even slowing (let alone stopping) at that intersection, like the bunch in front of me shortly before I was there today.

What I find most ironic is that I only started riding that way because of a number of near misses with cars not giving way at the Tweedale/ Duncraig/ Gairloch roundabout...

[NASHIE]

Not nice to get an ear bashing, but totally agree that a LOT of riders out there need to start showing more respect to all road users by following the basic road rules. As long as riders go through stop signs, run red lights, jump the que at traffic lights when you have already been overtaken etc etc then the argo will continue. Its all basic stuff and stops giving fuel to the anti bike folks out there.

[roller]

Not nice to get an ear bashing, but totally agree that a LOT of riders out there need to start showing more respect to all road users by following the basic road rules. As long as riders go through stop signs, run red lights, jump the que at traffic lights when you have already been overtaken etc etc then the argo will continue. Its all basic stuff and stops giving fuel to the anti bike folks out there.

the agro will continue as long as we're on "their" roads

[Aushiker]

Not nice to get an ear bashing, but totally agree that a LOT of riders out there need to start showing more respect to all road users by following the basic road rules. As long as riders go through stop signs, run red lights, jump the que at traffic lights when you have already been overtaken etc etc then the argo will continue. Its all basic stuff and stops giving fuel to the anti bike folks out there.

What research there is show more motorist run red lights at least and at a very severe cost (which is why we have red light cameras). Whilst I haven't seen any research data I have seen video evidence of repeated failures to stop at a stop sign (there was a forum member who set up a camera at a stop sign and recorded the outcome) and the best for me was the women who rang ABC 720 complaining she got a TIN for rolling through a stop sign. In fact I saw two do it yesterday on my short 10 km bike ride and yes I did it as well as the guy behind me couldn't get much closer ... if I had stopped he would have hit me and yes he didn't stop at the stop sign either. My fault of course

Maybe time for the Idaho laws to be introduced here for stop signs.

Andrew

[jlh]

If you don't slow down and check for cars at a stop sign, or give way sign for that matter, eventually you will get cleaned up. Cars go tearing around that bend on Duncraig Rd as well as other cyclists. Common sense ain't that common these days.

[Trepidious]

A group of us had a similar experience with a driver at the stop sign at Dee Road & Matheson Road a couple of weeks back when a couple of us had a good ol' chat after half the group pulled out. It was a bit of an over-reaction at the time as the there was plenty of time and space left (we were still re-grouping after the climb up Majestic / Fraser Road) but the driver's complaints and delivery were relatively reasonable. From memory it was a white Liberty wagon though and not a Commodore although this was a couple of weeks back now so the memory is a bit hazy. Either way it sounds like the same character and I don't think we've run into him again.

[cp123]

so while you were stopped - he blocked you in and ranted and raved about other cyclists not stopping.

I would've said something like 'don't both bother moaning to me about it mate - I AM stopped'. genius...

[446006]

Obey the road rules and you will be fine. someone tell this kuckle to move his vehicle and get off the road before HIM himself gets into strife!

[Trepidious]

so while you were stopped - he blocked you in and ranted and raved about other cyclists not stopping.

I would've said something like 'don't both bother moaning to me about it mate - I AM stopped'. genius...

Yep, stopped in front of us blocking the road and had a vent that half our group ran the stop sign; said he was sick of seeing cyclists not obeying the road rules etc. It was a passive aggressive rant and I don't think any of us really felt threatened. We simply agreed with him as he was technically in the right but the guys who went through did it safely (from my perspective and besides it was a social ride with a fairly tight-knit group so getting dropped or lost was a non-factor). I don't think any of our group's actions warranted his behaviour but we could see where he was coming from. It's a route we ride regularly and I haven't seen him since although we normally roll through earlier than the time thestaph stated.

[NASHIE]

Not nice to get an ear bashing, but totally agree that a LOT of riders out there need to start showing more respect to all road users by following the basic road rules. As long as riders go through stop signs, run red lights, jump the que at traffic lights when you have already been overtaken etc etc then the argo will continue. Its all basic stuff and stops giving fuel to the anti bike folks out there.

What research there is show more motorist run red lights at least and at a very severe cost (which is why we have red light cameras). Whilst I haven't seen any research data I have seen video evidence of repeated failures to stop at a stop sign (there was a forum member who set up a camera at a stop sign and recorded the outcome) and the best for me was the women who rang ABC 720 complaining she got a TIN for rolling through a stop sign. In fact I saw two do it yesterday on my short 10 km bike ride and yes I did it as well as the guy behind me couldn't get much closer ... if I had stopped he would have hit me and yes he didn't stop at the stop sign either. My fault of course

Maybe time for the Idaho laws to be introduced here for stop signs.

Andrew

Yep see cars rolling through stop signs everyday.......not good and I'm sure with more police on the roads issuing infringements (instead of sitting around the courthouse having to give evidence )the practice could be reduced. And yes- do observe the occasional car running an amber/'just red' light, and I'm sure all of us are guilty on occasion, and thats why red light cameras are installed and make a nice little revenue which i have no problems with. But i never see a car blatantly drive up to red signal while others are stopped and proceed with caution because they believe its safe to continue on their journey...........never and I'm the road all times of day every day . I do observe bike riders going though red lights everyday. Every stop or signal intersection put in 'will' have a fatality or serious crash and some time due to human error. The chance of a bike going though a red light and causing injury to another is very small and you can all continue to justify why its ok to break the law. The problem .......its observed by all the motorist stopped at the lights and the mental notes are taken of theres another bikerider that wants full road respect . Seriously guys I'm at the point steering my 12yr old bike mad boy away from road racing, due to the bad bike/car ..........bike/bike relationship in Perth. Just because 'they' do it or you 'think' its safe is not putting bike riders in a good light

[jlh]

I always stop at red lights even when its inconvenient or there's not much traffic around. As you say its about perception and also if you act like a car they tend to treat you more like one.

[NewStew]

I always stop at red lights even when its inconvenient or there's not much traffic around. As you say its about perception and also if you act like a car they tend to treat you more like one.

Totally agree and always stop at red lights. Probably the only time I ever go through a red is after stopping but being unable to trigger the in-road sensors (although 99% of the time with correct bike positioning it works), then if it is clear the lights aren't triggered and there is no traffic I will move off. Stop signs I have to admit to treating as give ways - slow to around 10-12 km/h and then if clear proceed. I actually believe they should change the law to allow cyclists to treat stop signs as give way but that hasn't happened yet so it is a risk I choose to take.

[Karati]

I always stop at red lights even when its inconvenient or there's not much traffic around. As you say its about perception and also if you act like a car they tend to treat you more like one.

Heh, earlier this week I was waiting at the lights at St Georges Tce and Milligan Street when some Hawaiian shirted half wit screams passed my left hand side (between the curb and cars in the left lane), dodges diagonally through a crowd of pedestrians to get to the footpath on the other side of the terrace. I yelled loudly "Watch out! Its a red light!!" Who knows if it registered but the pedestrians crossing got a laugh.

[casual_cyclist]

But i never see a car blatantly drive up to red signal while others are stopped and proceed with caution because they believe its safe to continue on their journey...........never and I'm the road all times of day every day.

Really? This happens every afternoon at the corner of Barrack and Roe St in Perth with motorists turning right from Roe into Barrack on the red arrow. Except they don't proceed with caution, they blast through at top speed because the light is red and they want to clear the intersection. Seriously, I see cyclists jump the red at this intersection and from my observations they are less likely to be hit when crossing on the red than the green. This is down to bad timing of the lights and lack of enforcement of the red light. I have seen cars crossing on the red many times in front of police, who do nothing This leaves cyclists in a bad situation where they can cross on the red safely when the road is clear but break the law, or cross on the green and risk being cleaned up by a car running the red!

[NASHIE]

But i never see a car blatantly drive up to red signal while others are stopped and proceed with caution because they believe its safe to continue on their journey...........never and I'm the road all times of day every day.

Really? This happens every afternoon at the corner of Barrack and Roe St in Perth with motorists turning right from Roe into Barrack on the red arrow. Except they don't proceed with caution, they blast through at top speed because the light is red and they want to clear the intersection. Seriously, I see cyclists jump the red at this intersection and from my observations they are less likely to be hit when crossing on the red than the green. This is down to bad timing of the lights and lack of enforcement of the red light. I have seen cars crossing on the red many times in front of police, who do nothing This leaves cyclists in a bad situation where they can cross on the red safely when the road is clear but break the law, or cross on the green and risk being cleaned up by a car running the red!

Really?.......lets all run red lights then........I'm sure you understand my argument and you can pickout examples as above in any congested/peakhour in any city. I would be proceeding with caution 'on a green' in the city in any case due to j-walkers stepping out, red light runners etc etc. Do you think the law is wrong and bike riders should be able to proceed on a redlight ?

[Aushiker]

Really?.......lets all run red lights then........I'm sure you understand my argument and you can pickout examples as above in any congested/peakhour in any city. I would be proceeding with caution 'on a green' in the city in any case due to j-walkers stepping out, red light runners etc etc. Do you think the law is wrong and bike riders should be able to proceed on a redlight ?

Mate you need to go back and re-read what Causal Cyclist actually wrote ... how you can jump to this interpretation from what he actually wrote is beyond me ... he provides one example which disputes your claim of blatant red light running and illustrates the problem that exists at this specific intersection and you jump head first into suggestion saying that he is suggesting that we should all "lets all run red lights then".

Andrew

[NASHIE]

Andrew, i don't need to re-read post or review your above video post of a cyclist 'blatantly running a red light while others are stopped'. You guys seemed determined with the 'they do' but its not dangerous if 'we do'. Do you think the law is wrong and bike riders should be able to proceed on a redlight ? . Not having a go but interested in your opinion.

[casual_cyclist]

But i never see a car blatantly drive up to red signal while others are stopped and proceed with caution because they believe its safe to continue on their journey...........never and I'm the road all times of day every day.

Really? This happens every afternoon at the corner of Barrack and Roe St in Perth with motorists turning right from Roe into Barrack on the red arrow. Except they don't proceed with caution, they blast through at top speed because the light is red and they want to clear the intersection. Seriously, I see cyclists jump the red at this intersection and from my observations they are less likely to be hit when crossing on the red than the green. This is down to bad timing of the lights and lack of enforcement of the red light. I have seen cars crossing on the red many times in front of police, who do nothing This leaves cyclists in a bad situation where they can cross on the red safely when the road is clear but break the law, or cross on the green and risk being cleaned up by a car running the red!

Really?.......lets all run red lights then........I'm sure you understand my argument and you can pickout examples as above in any congested/peakhour in any city. I would be proceeding with caution 'on a green' in the city in any case due to j-walkers stepping out, red light runners etc etc. Do you think the law is wrong and bike riders should be able to proceed on a redlight ?

No need to get excited. I was simply responding with surprise to your statement that you never see motorists run red lights. So, to respond to your specific accusations:
- The law should not be changed, it should be enforced.
- It is stupid and wrong that it is safer to cyclists to cross on the red than on the green.
- I don't think the law is wrong. I think it is wrong for cyclists and motorists to break the law.
- We should not hate all motorists because a few run red lights and nearly mow down cyclists and pedestrians legally crossing a road.
- Certain motorists should not hate all cyclists because a few decide to run red lights or stop signs.
- For the record, I wait for the green. It takes ages. I am usually annoyed at myself for doing so.

[NASHIE]

Thanks for reply, and sorry if you feel i have came across angry/excited at your response. We are both in agreement so need to continue, but i will try to explain my observation of 'running red lights while others are stopped'. Yes i do observe cars, truck etc 'running red lights' but i do not see cars, trucks etc 'blatantly drive up to red signal while others are stopped and proceed' i.e. if they did they would be running into the car, truck , bike stopped at the lights in front if them !!!!. (probably observe on the stolen car chase on the news). "Certain motorists should not hate all cyclists because a few decide to run red lights or stop signs" no they shouldn't, but my observations are its more than a few and thats the bad perception 'all' bike riders are getting, hence the agro the OP and others receive.
FWIW waiting to turn left from Stirling Hwy into Hackett drive today, I was stopped on the red, another rider came up a stopped...said g'day -all good...yes a little irritating to be stationary with little early morning traffic, but thats life/the law.....next a clown (on a bike) comes flying past us through the red Probably no danger to himself or others road users, if thats your argument, but like it or not, he is adding to the anti bikers out there.

[casual_cyclist]

Thanks for reply, and sorry if you feel i have came across angry/excited at your response. We are both in agreement so need to continue, but i will try to explain my observation of 'running red lights while others are stopped'. Yes i do observe cars, truck etc 'running red lights' but i do not see cars, trucks etc 'blatantly drive up to red signal while others are stopped and proceed' i.e. if they did they would be running into the car, truck , bike stopped at the lights in front if them !!!!. (probably observe on the stolen car chase on the news).

Fair enough. I don't see motorists stop at a red light and then proceed either.

"Certain motorists should not hate all cyclists because a few decide to run red lights or stop signs" no they shouldn't, but my observations are its more than a few and thats the bad perception 'all' bike riders are getting, hence the agro the OP and others receive.

I ride to work and home every day and never receive agro from other road users (motorists or cyclists).

FWIW waiting to turn left from Stirling Hwy into Hackett drive today, I was stopped on the red, another rider came up a stopped...said g'day -all good...yes a little irritating to be stationary with little early morning traffic, but thats life/the law.....next a clown (on a bike) comes flying past us through the red Probably no danger to himself or others road users, if thats your argument, but like it or not, he is adding to the anti bikers out there.

That is not my argument. My argument is that at the particular intersection I have identified it should not be safer to break the law and cross on red than compy with the law and cross on green. I don't condone cyclists or motorists breaking the law.

[NASHIE]

I ride to work and home every day and never receive agro from other road users

Im not a commuter but likewise....but then i/we do observe basic road rules. Im basing my agro/annoyance with cyclists on threads like this and in news reports etc. I do admit filtering through to the front at traffic lights when out training +20yrs ago as a young fella without much time behind the wheel. But these days if out training where lights are involved i hold my place in the lineup which I'm sure goes in my favour with being left ample space on the road.

That is not my argument. My argument is that at the particular intersection I have identified it should not be safer to break the law and cross on red than compy with the law and cross on green. I don't condone cyclists or motorists breaking the law.

Sorry my "If thats your argument" was not aimed at you, but more generic to the 'red light jumping by cyclists is not endangering themselves' so don't bother mentioning it type theme. As for it being safer to cross on a red than a green at your mentioned intersection on a bike, and police just letting cars run red lights ....not good, maybe worth a letter to Perth police station to have a look ?