Northern PSP works

ikm
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Northern PSP works

Postby ikm » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:53 pm

Looks like there might be some work going on soon, just north of Whitfords, there are stakes marking out what might be a new pathway, so we might be able to avoid the first road section north of the Whitfords Rd underpass.

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rolandp
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby rolandp » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:37 am

This is City of Joondalup:
Project will provide a link between the existing PSP that terminates at the Whitfords Avenue underpass to Camarino Drive, Woodvale. Currently the existing PSP has a missing section where cyclists have to ride on local road.

It is also partly funded by Dept of Transport Local Government Grants which need to spent soon. I must try to remember to map where these projects are.

On a similar topic, I asked MainRoads and City of Joondalup why the PSP couldn't be routed along the newly installed fence implemented as part of the Whitfords Train Station project. response back was nice idea but no so you will still need to ride on Camarino, and then Tallafard and then what ever the next one is etc. Don't you love the northern PSP compared to the south where you can ride to Mandurah with smaller number of road crossings then we experience in worst case, one suburb.

worzel
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby worzel » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:41 am

ikm wrote:Looks like there might be some work going on soon, just north of Whitfords, there are stakes marking out what might be a new pathway, so we might be able to avoid the first road section north of the Whitfords Rd underpass.
Excellent. Maybe my hounding of Albert Jacobs, MRWA, RACWA... for the last 18 months had some effect after all. Any idea on time frames?

So far as I can tell there appears to be more than enough reserve between the residential roads and freeway all the way between Greenwood station and where the shared path starts at Camarino Drive so hopefully this is just the beginning. (I am happy to duck through the Whitfords Ave underpass in Trailwood Park, but some signage to let you know that is where the PSP is would be a nice touch).

worzel
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby worzel » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:47 am

On the CoJ website there is a pdf of their capital works programme. According to that, all expenditure is in the 2014/15 financial year. So it should be finished within the next 3.5 months (unless it is run by the same mob that did the Gribble Road bypass, in which case you will be able to look at it but not ride on it until 6 months later)

citywomble
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby citywomble » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:14 pm

On the CoJ website there is a pdf of their capital works programme. According to that, all expenditure is in the 2014/15 financial year. So it should be finished within the next 3.5 months (unless it is run by the same mob that did the Gribble Road bypass, in which case you will be able to look at it but not ride on it until 6 months later)
In this case the works are being undertaken by local government (City of Joondalup) on their road reserve, to provide an alternative to riding on Trailwood Drive or the only footpath.

For the record, at Gribble Road the works were undertaken by the MRWA mob, within the freeway reserve ,and had nothing to do with that local government (City of Stirling).

I must say that, providing the local streets are appropriately local, or have cycle specific improvements, there is no need for a shared path on some of the missing links along the PSP routes. In many ways appropriate roads are safer than mixing with pedestrians, can be provided far more cost effectively, and integrate into the local quiet road network.

After all, unless the principle of "integrate where possible and segregate where necessary" is developed cycling will always be subject to 'them and us' and never really become mainstream.

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rolandp
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby rolandp » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:42 am

CityWomble, please take a ride in the area, and you will see it was similar to how Gribble Rd section used to be. Entrances to the local roads are very poor and some sections of the 'psp' are concrete slabs or very poorly cracked concrete. The local roads are not direct so makes your journey extra long, in particular if you have already commuted from the Perth cbd area. On several occasions I have been beeped by motorists for attempting to turn right back onto the PSP because I had held up their journey.

The idea of PSP is for direct/uninterrupted cycling travel, and if we had dedicated cycle ways, it could even be fast. We are not allowed to be integrated onto the freeway so we have the PSP instead.

We have an almost uninterrupted run on the south PSP, why shouldn't similar be provided for the North?

citywomble
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby citywomble » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:24 am

Roland,

Ride in the area? I live there and know it well.

I do not disagree with you but, properly done with excellent transitions between types of infrastructure, local roads can provide a really good route. Proper transitions would mean that the facility gives bike riders the optimum with motorists inhibited by the infrastructure and not the cyclist.

If we had proper dedicated cycle ways that would be great but currently the PSPs are shared paths which is far from ideal and actually confers right of way to pedestrians on what is 'supposed' to be a bike facility.

citywomble
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby citywomble » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:33 am

Also, don't forget that the southern PSP was constructed with the Kwinana freeway.

The problem with retrofitting an unbroken PSP to the northern route alongside the Mitchell freeway is that there are no pre installed underpasses and the existing roads and services make the cost of retrofitting very expensive. For that reason alternative solutions will need to be considered but, there is no doubt they can be delivered much better than they have to date.

worzel
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The Mitchell SoSPTGRITSDaaLCbSR

Postby worzel » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:35 am

I have to say that a PSP rather than using the roads in that area would not be in my top 10 improvement ideas for riding from Joondalup to the City but I will take whatever we can get.

BTW, maybe calling it the PSP is wrong. It should be called the Mitchell Freeway Series of Shared Pathways That Go Roughly in the Same Direction and are Loosely Connected by Suburban Roads. :)

The only real concern I have with that stretch is the near blind turns (Warwick / Duncraig is as bad). These include: where you emerge from the PSP onto Camarino Drive and cannot see what is coming because of the bushes on the right; there is a right turn off the road onto the PSP leading towards Greenwood station that is located on a sharp left hand bend in the road and I have had a near miss with a 4WD coming the opposite way a couple of times; the lack of signage (eg there are no signs southbound telling you to go through Trailwood Park) and there is a section of PSP that is effectively dormant as most people stay on the road on Twickenham Drive.

For the record my top 10 would be:
1. A Hutton St underpass
2. A Karrinyup Road underpass
3. A Cedric St underpass
4. Yellow box / "Do not enter unless clear" signs at the 2 Ossie Park T junctions
5. Re-surface 1km either side of Greenwood Station
6. Re-surface south of Gribble Road to Karrinyup Road
7. Dedicated cycle lanes in the city (including a lane between traffic heading north on Milligan St by the Arena)
8. A better access to the PSP at Moore Drive to the coastal side - you have to either drop down a steep kerb / ride on a footpath / weave between a barrier / bushes at Christchurch Terrace (a cyclist died there last year)
9. Give way signs / mirrors etc on all the various side paths where I have nearly been t-boned many times
10. Fix the exit to Central Park - it is a steep ramp which you need bottom gear for and you cannot get left across the two lanes of traffic exiting the building.

citywomble
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby citywomble » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:26 pm

Worzel,

Great post, you have identified why road cycling is better in the right places, what needs doing and where as well, and what is wrong with the Northern PSP - sorry I mean Northern SOSPTGRITSDAALCBSR a much more efficient acronym :)

worzel
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby worzel » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:28 am

I have had a look at the pegs / path being dug up the last couple of days. It looks like a simple job as they are either digging up and replacing a narrow concrete path (Trailwood Park to Camarino) or just putting a new one in adjacent to the road (Camarino). I did wonder whether they were going to go for something Gribble Road by-pass style but it is not that proper / big which explains the short timeframe / low cost. The only thing I wondered about was how the half a dozen houses on the corner of Trailwood and Camarino feel about losing a few metres of their frontage (I know the council has the rights to this, but it doesn't mean they will be happy about it).

wellington_street
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby wellington_street » Wed May 06, 2015 5:43 pm

Has anyone noticed the green treatment at the western end of the Greenwood overpass? Looks like its about a month old?
Any improvement?

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rolandp
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby rolandp » Wed May 06, 2015 9:00 pm

wellington_street wrote:Has anyone noticed the green treatment at the western end of the Greenwood overpass? Looks like its about a month old?
Any improvement?
Saw it a week ago, it is very green. Not too sure if it has improved anything, as regulars know about this intersections, and newbies will quickly learn when to slow down.

I then look at the section next to the Greenwood Station, and the volume of cracks - some dating back several years when the station car park was extended, and they are still there including white paint around the cracks. You can report these types of issues (and I will continue to do so) but in this case, is anyone listening?

dmwill
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby dmwill » Wed May 06, 2015 9:47 pm

Green bit does nothing.

I got into a brief argument with a parent on Friday afternoon who decided to drive over that portion of path so she could park somewhere for school pickups.

worzel
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby worzel » Thu May 07, 2015 10:22 am

Green paint does nothing; it seems to be an indication that all the council budgets will run to is a few signs rather than actually fixing the infrastructure.

I really don't like the new section of path by Trailwood Park. The entry / exit onto Camarino has a fairly high kerb, a blind bend at that end and a sharp bend at the park end and it drops you into traffic close to a junction - the first time I rode it I may well have ridden into the path of a 4x4 if it wasn't for a a guy in front of me shouting a warning. It seems badly thought through. I am guessing there have been several complaints as there are loads of additional warning signs painted on the path. They really should have extended all the way along Camarino to where the path is at Edgewater.

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Aushiker
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby Aushiker » Thu May 07, 2015 2:32 pm

worzel wrote:Green paint does nothing; it seems to be an indication that all the council budgets will run to is a few signs rather than actually fixing the infrastructure.
Without commenting on this particular location, I don't agree with this statement, at least in terms of where it has been used in Fremantle. In one particular example, the Parry/High Street intersection it has changed motorist behaviour. Now they turn left into High within the actual intersection and from the straight through lane, instead of cutting into the "bicycle lane" and taking the left tight as. Buses where particular bad at this as I experienced on a number of occasions.

In other locations within Fremantle it has raised awareness of bicycles and improved interactions.

I would suggest that one shouldn't right off the physiological advantage of green paint so quickly ... it can work.

Andrew

dmwill
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby dmwill » Thu May 07, 2015 3:10 pm

Image

It should raise some awareness...most likely for walkers given cyclists make a sharp turn in and out from the bridge.

Didn't stop a bonehead parent using it as a road while doing the school run though....I'd imagine it will be covered in sand sooner or later.

nachoman
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby nachoman » Mon May 11, 2015 7:11 pm

The James St underpass was painted green today. Also my wheels are now slightly green.

https://goo.gl/maps/XcesR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ikm
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Re: Northern PSP works

Postby ikm » Wed May 13, 2015 10:27 pm

Finally did the commute after a few weeks. Wow that green stuff has a strong smell to it.

Seems like the rest of the track hasn't changed too much but its great to see a few little things being fixed up. A few less bumps, an extra bit of path here and there, some new paint. It might not be perfect but at least it is slowly improving.

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