CBD Bike Blitz

Sinner
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Sinner » Mon May 04, 2015 4:47 pm

rolandp wrote:On the other hand, converting a footpath to a shared path also only takes installing a 'shared path sign' - if the CoP had supported this concept, signs would have been installed years ago.

Time will tell.

Roland, this is what happened on Barrack Street and The Esplanade, to assist cyclists in the vicinity of Elizabeth Quay.

wellington_street
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby wellington_street » Mon May 04, 2015 4:58 pm

Sinner wrote:
rolandp wrote:On the other hand, converting a footpath to a shared path also only takes installing a 'shared path sign' - if the CoP had supported this concept, signs would have been installed years ago.

Time will tell.

Roland, this is what happened on Barrack Street and The Esplanade, to assist cyclists in the vicinity of Elizabeth Quay.
This is an MRA project and is was necessitated by the removal of the existing shared path along the waterfront. Not exactly a proactive move by CoP.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Sinner » Tue May 05, 2015 10:37 am

wellington_street wrote:
Sinner wrote:
rolandp wrote:On the other hand, converting a footpath to a shared path also only takes installing a 'shared path sign' - if the CoP had supported this concept, signs would have been installed years ago.

Time will tell.

Roland, this is what happened on Barrack Street and The Esplanade, to assist cyclists in the vicinity of Elizabeth Quay.
This is an MRA project and is was necessitated by the removal of the existing shared path along the waterfront. Not exactly a proactive move by CoP.
Well, MRA's alternative was.......nothing!

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby wellington_street » Tue May 05, 2015 10:50 am

Sinner wrote:Well, MRA's alternative was.......nothing!
Certainly better than nothing.

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roller
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby roller » Tue May 05, 2015 12:26 pm

NASHIE wrote:
Aushiker wrote:
What was I dong wrong here that didn't warrant respect? Is it because some other random rider did something "wrong" in her eyes and hence I hadn't earned this motor vehicle operators respect because I am on a bike?
That happens on the road everyday, car, bike ,bus pulling in front of other motorist. I don't think she had it in for you .....just didn't see you for one of many reasons. For all we know you might of been signalling to turn left and then changed your mind ?. There are countless t-bone, rear-end etc crashes daily MV vs MV
it's true, it happens every day and this just highlights why getting all cyclists to obey the traffic lights will do nothing to stop collisions between cars, motorcycles, bikes, pedestrians.

people don't run through a process before causing a collision, they don't sit there and think "hey, that cyclist ahead of me, i'm going to run into them because the other day I saw a cyclist go through a red light so i'm going to give this person less respect than they deserve and run into them".

they do it because they're not paying attention, they do it because they misjudge their speed, the distance, the conditions, people don't make a conscious decision to have an "accident".

these accidents and incidents won't disappear if we all obey the traffic lights, the "bad name" or "good name" cyclists get from obeying the rules all the time is worth nothing - in some situations cyclists get just as much of a bad name from obeying the rules as they do from not obeying them:

those bloody cyclists riding on the road, should be on the footpath !!
those bloody cyclists not paying rego
riding 2 abreast
claiming the lane (when safe to do, or dangerous not to)

those nutters that do intentionally close pass, abuse, hit cyclists don't do it because "they once saw some cyclist doing something a while back so they're going to teach the next cyclist a lesson", they do it because they're selfish mentally unhinged road users, even if we all obey every road rule and only ride 2-abreast on sundays while coming home from church, those lunatics are still going to be lunatics.

we shouldn't get drawn into confusing a perceived excuse for bad behaviour "they go through red lights" with the reason "I wasn't paying attention officer"

it's a weird sort of victim blaming.
inflammatory statement or idea

matthecat
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby matthecat » Tue May 05, 2015 1:08 pm

Have recently been considering riding a short distance on footpath in early morning 5.30am''sh) following Wellington St being reduced down to 1 lane in either direction (for the construction of the bus tunnel at the new bus port site).
Traffic feels compelled to race to the merge point (which is only some 20m through the lights) leaving me feeling very vulnerable - turn into a carpark about 50m down the road.
Technically breaking the law but potentially saving a collision or being forced into the gutter.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Tue May 05, 2015 1:34 pm

roller wrote:
NASHIE wrote:
Aushiker wrote:
What was I dong wrong here that didn't warrant respect? Is it because some other random rider did something "wrong" in her eyes and hence I hadn't earned this motor vehicle operators respect because I am on a bike?
That happens on the road everyday, car, bike ,bus pulling in front of other motorist. I don't think she had it in for you .....just didn't see you for one of many reasons. For all we know you might of been signalling to turn left and then changed your mind ?. There are countless t-bone, rear-end etc crashes daily MV vs MV
it's true, it happens every day and this just highlights why getting all cyclists to obey the traffic lights will do nothing to stop collisions between cars, motorcycles, bikes, pedestrians.

people don't run through a process before causing a collision, they don't sit there and think "hey, that cyclist ahead of me, i'm going to run into them because the other day I saw a cyclist go through a red light so i'm going to give this person less respect than they deserve and run into them".

they do it because they're not paying attention, they do it because they misjudge their speed, the distance, the conditions, people don't make a conscious decision to have an "accident".

these accidents and incidents won't disappear if we all obey the traffic lights, the "bad name" or "good name" cyclists get from obeying the rules all the time is worth nothing - in some situations cyclists get just as much of a bad name from obeying the rules as they do from not obeying them:

those bloody cyclists riding on the road, should be on the footpath !!
those bloody cyclists not paying rego
riding 2 abreast
claiming the lane (when safe to do, or dangerous not to)

those nutters that do intentionally close pass, abuse, hit cyclists don't do it because "they once saw some cyclist doing something a while back so they're going to teach the next cyclist a lesson", they do it because they're selfish mentally unhinged road users, even if we all obey every road rule and only ride 2-abreast on sundays while coming home from church, those lunatics are still going to be lunatics.

we shouldn't get drawn into confusing a perceived excuse for bad behaviour "they go through red lights" with the reason "I wasn't paying attention officer"

it's a weird sort of victim blaming.
How you guys can come to the conclusion that rideing thought a red light is not endangering yourself and other road users is beyond me. I agree 100 % that follow road rules is no guarantee to safety, so why increase those risks by going through a red light. Why you would want to put yourself at the risk of 'lunatics' on more than one passing occasion by que jumping and red light running is unreal. Safe riding.....

Mediocratus
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Mediocratus » Tue May 05, 2015 8:23 pm

matthecat wrote:Have recently been considering riding a short distance on footpath in early morning 5.30am''sh) following Wellington St being reduced down to 1 lane in either direction (for the construction of the bus tunnel at the new bus port site).
Traffic feels compelled to race to the merge point (which is only some 20m through the lights) leaving me feeling very vulnerable - turn into a carpark about 50m down the road.
Technically breaking the law but potentially saving a collision or being forced into the gutter.
Risk a fine or risk your life? I wouldn't hesitate to be on the footpath. It isn't like it will be crowded with pedestrians at 5.30am.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Mulger bill » Wed May 06, 2015 12:29 am

Mediocratus wrote:
matthecat wrote:Have recently been considering riding a short distance on footpath in early morning 5.30am''sh) following Wellington St being reduced down to 1 lane in either direction (for the construction of the bus tunnel at the new bus port site).
Traffic feels compelled to race to the merge point (which is only some 20m through the lights) leaving me feeling very vulnerable - turn into a carpark about 50m down the road.
Technically breaking the law but potentially saving a collision or being forced into the gutter.
Risk a fine or risk your life? I wouldn't hesitate to be on the footpath. It isn't like it will be crowded with pedestrians at 5.30am.
This,

Read the quote in my sig.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
London Boy 29/12/2011

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queequeg
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby queequeg » Wed May 06, 2015 3:10 pm

NASHIE wrote: How you guys can come to the conclusion that rideing thought a red light is not endangering yourself and other road users is beyond me. I agree 100 % that follow road rules is no guarantee to safety, so why increase those risks by going through a red light. Why you would want to put yourself at the risk of 'lunatics' on more than one passing occasion by que jumping and red light running is unreal. Safe riding.....
There is a huge difference between bomb if through a red light at speed vs coming to a complete stop and then proceeding through a red light when safe to do so,
Basically, the same as if the traffic light was a stop sign.
I take it you have never crossed a road on a red don't walk sign? There is zero difference. I don't know too many people that go jumping in front of cars crossing the road, and I rarely see cyclists just running through a red as if it weren't there.
As a rule, I don't go bombing through reds, but plenty of times I get lights that refuse to change because they don't detect I am there,. That does not make it unsafe.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Wed May 06, 2015 5:37 pm

queequeg wrote:
NASHIE wrote: How you guys can come to the conclusion that rideing thought a red light is not endangering yourself and other road users is beyond me. I agree 100 % that follow road rules is no guarantee to safety, so why increase those risks by going through a red light. Why you would want to put yourself at the risk of 'lunatics' on more than one passing occasion by que jumping and red light running is unreal. Safe riding.....
There is a huge difference between bomb if through a red light at speed vs coming to a complete stop and then proceeding through a red light when safe to do so,
Basically, the same as if the traffic light was a stop sign.
I take it you have never crossed a road on a red don't walk sign? There is zero difference. I don't know too many people that go jumping in front of cars crossing the road, and I rarely see cyclists just running through a red as if it weren't there.
As a rule, I don't go bombing through reds, but plenty of times I get lights that refuse to change because they don't detect I am there,. That does not make it unsafe.
So when your sitting at a red light in the car (and in a big rush that you can't wait 5-30sec) and its all good and safe .......you proceed with caution ?. Im guessing when you mount your bike and proceed to ride on the road you want all the rights and privileges the same as other road users ? .....YES you do, so why should you be allowed to look and proceed ?. Bomb, stop and look who cares its a red light for yours and others safety. 6am Sunday morning no cars around to trigger lights.....use your own judgement.

I'm in no rush and happy to wait a few seconds for the red man at ped crossings. Maybe you DONT know to many people that jump in front of cars.....but many do like the young lady that tripped and was run over by a garbage truck over east :cry:

You are observed by motorists, kids, other riders doing the right thing, when you bomb, stop and look, blah blah blah through a red light at it looks BAD for ALL bike riders

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby worzel » Wed May 06, 2015 5:42 pm

When I uploaded this morning's 70 minute commute I noticed that there was a 3 minute difference between total time and moving time. I had fairly typical to high waiting times at each of Karrinyup, Cedric, Hutton, Wellington, Murray, Hay, The Tce crossings etc and did it by the book without going through reds, jumping early at the green man, undertaking cars queuing at junctions or anything at all that could be construed as improper and pee of car drivers. In the grand scheme of things, what difference does 3 minutes each way matter to ensure you arrive safely? 14 years ago my brother was hit and killed by the proverbial bus (albeit as a ped) taking such a risk.

And what have I seen this week? Two young lads on an off road motorbike bombing down the PSP without helmets. Two cyclists stopped in the middle of the PSP to have a chat about it. A bloke overtook on a blind turn under the Erindale Rd underpass, another bloke overtook on a blind bend dropping down to Leederville, a guy rode out in front of a van crossing Karrinyup Road, a bloke undertook me crossing Hay St as I was passing a parked car...

wellington_street
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby wellington_street » Wed May 06, 2015 6:13 pm

I think cyclists should be allowed to proceed when the parallel 'green man' goes. It seems a waste to require cyclists to sit there for the extra 5-6 seconds, only to hold up cars while they get up to speed. Those 5-6 seconds would allow cyclists to get moving and up to speed, minimising the conflicts further down. Thoughts?

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queequeg
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby queequeg » Wed May 06, 2015 6:50 pm

NASHIE wrote:
queequeg wrote:
NASHIE wrote: How you guys can come to the conclusion that rideing thought a red light is not endangering yourself and other road users is beyond me. I agree 100 % that follow road rules is no guarantee to safety, so why increase those risks by going through a red light. Why you would want to put yourself at the risk of 'lunatics' on more than one passing occasion by que jumping and red light running is unreal. Safe riding.....
There is a huge difference between bomb if through a red light at speed vs coming to a complete stop and then proceeding through a red light when safe to do so,
Basically, the same as if the traffic light was a stop sign.
I take it you have never crossed a road on a red don't walk sign? There is zero difference. I don't know too many people that go jumping in front of cars crossing the road, and I rarely see cyclists just running through a red as if it weren't there.
As a rule, I don't go bombing through reds, but plenty of times I get lights that refuse to change because they don't detect I am there,. That does not make it unsafe.
So when your sitting at a red light in the car (and in a big rush that you can't wait 5-30sec) and its all good and safe .......you proceed with caution ?. Im guessing when you mount your bike and proceed to ride on the road you want all the rights and privileges the same as other road users ? .....YES you do, so why should you be allowed to look and proceed ?. Bomb, stop and look who cares its a red light for yours and others safety. 6am Sunday morning no cars around to trigger lights.....use your own judgement.

I'm in no rush and happy to wait a few seconds for the red man at ped crossings. Maybe you DONT know to many people that jump in front of cars.....but many do like the young lady that tripped and was run over by a garbage truck over east :cry:

You are observed by motorists, kids, other riders doing the right thing, when you bomb, stop and look, blah blah blah through a red light at it looks BAD for ALL bike riders
Did you actually read what I wrote? I said as s rule I don't bomb through red lights, but I have stupidly sat at red lights at 5am on a Sunday waiting for them to change for 8 minutes with not a single car coming through in any direction. At some point you just have to say that this is ridiculous and treat it as a stop sign. Since there are no cars there anyway, who is watching me and saying "oh, there goes that naughty cyclist".

On the bike path, I will cross on the red man if the parallel road light is green and there is no conflict (I.e. no possible way for a car to cross my path). It seems daft that while cars get an automatic green every cycle, the bike path only gets it if a cyclist was there at the right point in the cycle to press a button. Perhaps we should require all motorists to get out of their cars and apply for permission to cross an intersection by pressing a button too. That is an infrastructure fail, and most motorists would be hard pressed to say they have never ever stopped at every flashing red or solid red man at a pedestrian/bike crossing.
'11 Lynskey Cooper CX, '00 Hillbrick Steel Racing (Total Rebuild '10), '16 Cervelo R5, '18 Mason BokekTi

NASHIE
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Wed May 06, 2015 6:58 pm

:shock: Maybe you need to reread what i wrote ??.....safe riding to you mate

human909
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby human909 » Wed May 06, 2015 7:47 pm

NASHIE wrote::shock: Maybe you need to reread what i wrote ??.....safe riding to you mate
A mindless approach to road rules doesn't help anybody.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby cage » Wed May 06, 2015 8:36 pm

human909 wrote:
NASHIE wrote::shock: Maybe you need to reread what i wrote ??.....safe riding to you mate
A mindless approach to road rules doesn't help anybody.
...and ignoring them can only end up leading to tragedy.
If drivers and riders spent more time worrying about their responsibilities than their rights then roads would be far safer.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby roller » Wed May 06, 2015 8:42 pm

NASHIE wrote:
roller wrote:
NASHIE wrote:That happens on the road everyday, car, bike ,bus pulling in front of other motorist. I don't think she had it in for you .....just didn't see you for one of many reasons. For all we know you might of been signalling to turn left and then changed your mind ?. There are countless t-bone, rear-end etc crashes daily MV vs MV
it's true, it happens every day and this just highlights why getting all cyclists to obey the traffic lights will do nothing to stop collisions between cars, motorcycles, bikes, pedestrians.

people don't run through a process before causing a collision, they don't sit there and think "hey, that cyclist ahead of me, i'm going to run into them because the other day I saw a cyclist go through a red light so i'm going to give this person less respect than they deserve and run into them".

they do it because they're not paying attention, they do it because they misjudge their speed, the distance, the conditions, people don't make a conscious decision to have an "accident".

these accidents and incidents won't disappear if we all obey the traffic lights, the "bad name" or "good name" cyclists get from obeying the rules all the time is worth nothing - in some situations cyclists get just as much of a bad name from obeying the rules as they do from not obeying them:

those bloody cyclists riding on the road, should be on the footpath !!
those bloody cyclists not paying rego
riding 2 abreast
claiming the lane (when safe to do, or dangerous not to)

those nutters that do intentionally close pass, abuse, hit cyclists don't do it because "they once saw some cyclist doing something a while back so they're going to teach the next cyclist a lesson", they do it because they're selfish mentally unhinged road users, even if we all obey every road rule and only ride 2-abreast on sundays while coming home from church, those lunatics are still going to be lunatics.

we shouldn't get drawn into confusing a perceived excuse for bad behaviour "they go through red lights" with the reason "I wasn't paying attention officer"

it's a weird sort of victim blaming.
How you guys can come to the conclusion that rideing thought a red light is not endangering yourself and other road users is beyond me. I agree 100 % that follow road rules is no guarantee to safety, so why increase those risks by going through a red light. Why you would want to put yourself at the risk of 'lunatics' on more than one passing occasion by que jumping and red light running is unreal. Safe riding.....
I'm not sure you even came close to grasping what I was trying to say.

Perhaps it wasn't clear. *hmm*
inflammatory statement or idea

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Aushiker » Wed May 06, 2015 8:43 pm

roller wrote: I'm not sure you even came close to grasping what I was trying to say.

Perhaps it wasn't clear. *hmm*
It was clear ... apparently I have views I didn't know I had as well :roll:

Andrew

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby NASHIE » Thu May 07, 2015 12:29 am

Sorry guys for beating on red light/rules 'drum', as going on your posts and blogs etc it greatly irritates you. If grasping what you say is agreeing with you ?.....then no it wasn't clear. It greatly irritates me that people who obviously care for bike safety find it necessary to poo poo anyone that mentions the notion of doing and being seen to do the right thing is good for all involved. To have the attitude of why bother because obeying the rules all the time is worth nothing in the eyes of other motorist and your own safety is just wrong.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby rolandp » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:18 pm

Riding east on St Georges Tec on Friday morning. Waiting at the lights at William St.

They turn green, and there is that beeping noise from behind me, with the passenger pointing to the bus lane for me to move over.

There is one major thing wrong, it is a BUS Lane and I can't cycle in it.

And the car doing the beeping is one of MainRoads Congestion Vehicles who I would have thought would know better. Reported to MainRoads as soon as I got to work. Will be interested to hear their side of the story, though this takes up to two weeks.

I also did suggest that the bus lane could be made to allow cycling in it with the appropriate signs, but St Georges Terrace comes under City of Perth, so MainRoads can't do anything.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby wellington_street » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:46 pm

What did you do after the beeping? Claimed the lane i hope. I have no time for Moron Motorists.

Don't expect a sensible response from Main Roads.

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Thoglette » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:23 am

wellington_street wrote:What did you do after the beeping? Claimed the lane i hope. I have no time for Moron Motorists.
Especially as on that stretch it's a 40kph zone. And they're going to get held up 50m down the road at the next ped crossing. So reg 219 cannot be reasonably presumed to apply in any sense

They really are morons.
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Sinner
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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby Sinner » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:04 am

rolandp wrote:Riding east on St Georges Tec on Friday morning. Waiting at the lights at William St.

They turn green, and there is that beeping noise from behind me, with the passenger pointing to the bus lane for me to move over.

There is one major thing wrong, it is a BUS Lane and I can't cycle in it.

And the car doing the beeping is one of MainRoads Congestion Vehicles who I would have thought would know better. Reported to MainRoads as soon as I got to work. Will be interested to hear their side of the story, though this takes up to two weeks.

I also did suggest that the bus lane could be made to allow cycling in it with the appropriate signs, but St Georges Terrace comes under City of Perth, so MainRoads can't do anything.
The bus lane is a regulatory sign and therefore Main Roads would have to approve, install and maintain the sign. So they can do a bit more than "anything".

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Re: CBD Bike Blitz

Postby rolandp » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:11 pm

From The West:
More than 4100 cars blocking clearways, no-stopping zones and bus lanes were towed away in the first nine months of the State Government’s scheme to reduce congestion in Perth’s central business district.

Since it started on September 8, an average of about 22 vehicles were removed at nuisance motorists’ own expense each business day.

Owners of the 4124 cars towed away between then and May 31 have been charged a total of at least $1.15 million to recover them. When the plan was announced in August the main targets were Adelaide Terrace and St Georges Terrace, where 1110 and 686 vehicles were removed respectively.

But Main Roads WA said it had been most useful on Mill Street, Milligan Street and Hay Street, where obstructions badly affect traffic flow.

On Beaufort Street, 150 vehicles parked in bus lanes were hauled away.


If there was only a way to identify these drivers and stop them from illegally parking.

So wonder if I would have been hauled away if I had actually been riding in the bus lane.

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