Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

citywomble
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby citywomble » Wed May 13, 2015 10:02 pm

Jackfrost wrote:
This proposed law change won't make any difference to user behaviour. Those that ride on the road will continue to ride on the road and those that illegally ride on a footpath will legally ride on a footpath.
That is true and, despite the state government wrongly asserting it will get cyclists OFF the road, it should get more cyclists ON the roads. That is because, not only will it legitimise those that already ride, but will also enable those that are the most law abiding, would like to ride, but don't feel safe in the gaps the option to ride on the path where necessary.

Perhaps this is better:
This proposed law change won't make any difference to user behaviour. Those that ride on the road will continue to ride on the road and those that illegally ride on a footpath will legally ride on a footpath and those those are too cautious about riding now have another option.

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kb
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby kb » Wed May 13, 2015 10:14 pm

I find it interesting that I've had one accident in the last 40,000km riding and that was being backed into while riding 10kph on the footpath.
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eldavo
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby eldavo » Wed May 13, 2015 10:19 pm

Bad sample.

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Thoglette
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby Thoglette » Wed May 13, 2015 10:32 pm

eldavo wrote:Bad sample.
Ah, data cleansing, one of my favourite activities in getting the statistics to say what I want them to :-) :twisted:
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby eldavo » Wed May 13, 2015 10:45 pm

"I've been folding paper for 35 years, and I've never seen a paper cut."

That's right, paper cuts don't exist!

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kb
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Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby kb » Thu May 14, 2015 6:52 am

eldavo wrote:Bad sample.
Maybe. Still not inclined to up my footpath kms to check ;-)

The thing is, threats to you have a higher priority than those you might be threatening. So many drivers at intersections or driveways will look into the middle of the road and glance straight past the edge and footpath. Better being able to ride on the footpath than not but it has it's own dangers.
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roller
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby roller » Thu May 14, 2015 11:20 am

With cyclists being allowed to ride on the footpath - perhaps the next thing we'll see is a debate on whether mandatory helmets for pedestrians is a good idea or not.
inflammatory statement or idea

Karati
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby Karati » Thu May 14, 2015 3:12 pm

Pedestrians should be registered and pay third party insurance!!

cj7hawk
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby cj7hawk » Thu May 14, 2015 11:37 pm

Karati wrote:Pedestrians should be registered and pay third party insurance!!
Then they'd feel like they had the right to push us off their paths... :(

cp123
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby cp123 » Sun May 17, 2015 12:36 pm

I live in Canberra and bikes are allowed to ride on all footpaths err sorry - shared recreational paths.

Maybe it's just me but i use these paths and both minor and major roads (with a bike lane) and in over 30 years of cycling as an adult haven't run into anyone yet. There are plenty of commuters here that used the shared path system and as far as i know we don't have any specific 'bike only' paths like some of the other cities do.

It doesn't mean i (or others) don't still ride on the road. But for me, there are roads and roads if you get my drift. where there might be a path next to a road, if the road doesn't have a designated bike lane i'll take the path. But where the lane is good i'm happy to ride next to the cars.

Is perth that different? do you breed a different type of 'hoon cyclist' (sarcasm) there. Why won't it work? I get whoever said it above about letting cyclists on the footpath means there's an excuse to bail out of road infrastructure, but for those who might not be confident enough to go on a road, is it really that big a deal?

i don't think any of the people i know have ever run into peds either. sorry - not trying to be a smart ar$e but just interested.

wellington_street
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby wellington_street » Sun May 17, 2015 2:43 pm

Change is scary and the prospect of a worst case scenario appears far more probable than it actually is

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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby wellington_street » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:38 am

CASR (usually ridiculously nanny-ish) wrote a paper on footpath cycling which actually supports it. Haven't read it yet but here is the link for anyone interested:
http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/rsr/RSR2011 ... aworth.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby CycleSnail » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:01 pm

WALGA supports a change to regulation 216, which would allow using bicycles on footpaths for riders of all ages, subject to an appropriate speed limit.
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby wellington_street » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:05 pm

Speed limit - no, just no. Sheer stupidity.

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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby wellington_street » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:11 pm

Heinrich, do you know whether the following are being looked at in conjunction with the changes to the RTC?

1. Allowing cyclists to ride across signalised pedestrian crossings with the 'green man' and flashing red man?
2. Allowing cyclists to ride across zebra crossings (with priority) after stopping

Both these have been implemented in QLD following the Cycling Inquiry.

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CycleSnail
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby CycleSnail » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:32 pm

wellington_street wrote:Heinrich, do you know whether the following are being looked at in conjunction with the changes to the RTC?

1. Allowing cyclists to ride across signalised pedestrian crossings with the 'green man' and flashing red man?
2. Allowing cyclists to ride across zebra crossings (with priority) after stopping

Both these have been implemented in QLD following the Cycling Inquiry.
I think there might be some movement on the first item. It is my view that the need for a bicycle lantern at pedestrian crossings is a waste of time unless there is a different phasing for bike riders. The current regulation that it is illegal for a cyclist to ride across the intersection with pedestrians is a joke.... I was at a ride in Perth with the Australian Bicycle Council (I think) and just about everybody in that group broke the law....
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby wellington_street » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:59 pm

CycleSnail wrote:
wellington_street wrote:Heinrich, do you know whether the following are being looked at in conjunction with the changes to the RTC?

1. Allowing cyclists to ride across signalised pedestrian crossings with the 'green man' and flashing red man?
2. Allowing cyclists to ride across zebra crossings (with priority) after stopping

Both these have been implemented in QLD following the Cycling Inquiry.
I think there might be some movement on the first item. It is my view that the need for a bicycle lantern at pedestrian crossings is a waste of time unless there is a different phasing for bike riders. The current regulation that it is illegal for a cyclist to ride across the intersection with pedestrians is a joke.... I was at a ride in Perth with the Australian Bicycle Council (I think) and just about everybody in that group broke the law....
That's some good news. I can't think of the last time I saw someone dismount to ride across a signalised crossing, it's a stupid law. What would be really useful though is having countdown timers at all future intersections so that cyclists know they have for example 5 seconds to get across rather than having to take a gamble on how many flashes the red man has left.

Disappointing that 2 is not being considered / not going to get up. Zebra crossings are great for pedestrians but if cyclists have to dismount to use them then they are a massive roadblock in an otherwise good off-street cycling route.

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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby softy » Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:19 pm

This law I support,

Almost all of us cycle on a footpath to cut out a intersection, keep of a busy road, putt along slowly, go round the corner to the shop.

So the change to the law is obvious to me, people are already doing it.

It may also encourage more to cycle as now they can cycle to the shops on the footpath, it may not be safer, or it may even be more dangerous, but the perception is people feel safer on the footpath.

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Thoglette
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby Thoglette » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:59 pm

wellington_street wrote:Speed limit - no, just no. Sheer stupidity.
Am I to presume that you think a 1m rule is also sheer stupidity? :D

I'm actually in favour of a speed limit - there are enough !! Bánh mì for swearing!! out there who;d think 30kph was their entitlement (enough do already!)

15kph would be my line in the sand - I'd even go for 10kph.

The other reason is that it stops the "get back on the footpath" when you're doing 25 kph
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby wellington_street » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:53 pm

Thoglette wrote:
wellington_street wrote:Speed limit - no, just no. Sheer stupidity.
Am I to presume that you think a 1m rule is also sheer stupidity? :D

I'm actually in favour of a speed limit - there are enough !! Bánh mì for swearing!! out there who;d think 30kph was their entitlement (enough do already!)

15kph would be my line in the sand - I'd even go for 10kph.

The other reason is that it stops the "get back on the footpath" when you're doing 25 kph
My main objections to a blanket speed limit on footpaths are:

1. It doesnt remove the stupid is it footpath / is it shared path mindbend we have now. Instead of 'can we ride on it?' it will be 'can i do more than 10km/h?'

2. It will be practically unenforceable as police will only do rare random blitzes.

3. It will be impractical as bicycles so not come with speedos. Not such an issue on the road given the much higher speed limits but on paths it will be 10-15km/h which is much easier to exceed without knowing.

4. Blanket speed limits do not reflect actual safety concerns and through associated low compliance, have no safett benefit. This is why we dont have a blanket 30mph (50km/h) speed limit in the metro area anymore, we have speed limits tailored to individual roads.

5. Any blanket speed limit (10-15-20) is going to be either far too slow for somewhere like the Hepburn Ave footpath or far too fast for somewhere like Albany Hwy through Vic Park or your average footpath hard up against the property line.

6. I am against impractical blanket laws that have no safety benefit, will not be enforced and will have no compliance. A culture of creating stupid road rules results in a culture of ignoring road rules.

Why would i think the 1m rule is stupidity? The risk is there every single event and there is a clear safety benefit to the rule. It of course needs to be enforced to be effective.

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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:04 pm

wellington_street wrote: 1. It doesnt remove the stupid is it footpath / is it shared path mindbend we have now. Instead of 'can we ride on it?' it will be 'can i do more than 10km/h?'
Where as now, you should still be working out what speed is sensible, regardless of the markings.
wellington_street wrote: 2. It will be practically unenforceable as police will only do rare random blitzes.
Where as now, it's practically unenforced as the police ride there too.
wellington_street wrote: 3. It will be impractical as bicycles so not come with speedos. Not such an issue on the road given the much higher speed limits but on paths it will be 10-15km/h which is much easier to exceed without knowing.
I picked that speed because it's really easy to tell if you're going that fast - it's a fast jog. Faster than walking but not really anyone's riding pace.

If you feel like you're riding nicely, you're going too fast.
wellington_street wrote: 4. Blanket speed limits do not reflect actual safety concerns and through associated low compliance, have no safett benefit. This is why we dont have a blanket 30mph (50km/h) speed limit in the metro area anymore, we have speed limits tailored to individual roads.
Pardon? When I first read that I thought you meant tailored DOWN to individual roads. And whose safety concerns? Did you mean to say "subsequent low compliance" . In which case you'd be victim blaming.

The vast majority of motorists stay under the speed limit almost all of the time. It's the 10% who "just speed a little when it's safe" and the 1% who can't give a flying **** areremain the problem - and do most of the whining.

(The best evidence we have suggests 30kph is where the blanket speed limit should be)
wellington_street wrote: 5. Any blanket speed limit (10-15-20) is going to be either far too slow for somewhere like the Hepburn Ave footpath or far too fast for somewhere like Albany Hwy through Vic Park or your average footpath hard up against the property line.
Get the things that should be PSPs marked as PSPs. Don't use it as an excused. This is, after all, all about the average footpath.
wellington_street wrote: 6. I am against impractical blanket laws that have no safety benefit, will not be enforced and will have no compliance. A culture of creating stupid road rules results in a culture of ignoring road rules.
The safety benefit of altering the speed limit from what-ever-the-road-is to single digit mph is clear, as you've just pointed out.
wellington_street wrote: Why would i think the 1m rule is stupidity? The risk is there every single event and there is a clear safety benefit to the rule. It of course needs to be enforced to be effective.
What, like the current safe passing rules are enforced? And anyway, how are motorists supposed to know how far away they are? Do they have to purchase expensive aftermarket laser range finders? Didn't you hear that 1m will be unenforceable because the police won't be able to get out their tape measures? Plus bicycles squeeze past me much closer than that when I'm stopped in traffic.

My point is that all of the complaints levied at a limit for speed on foot paths are entirely analogous to those raised against 1m rules.
Last edited by Thoglette on Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby eldavo » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:16 pm

I vote for a triple quoted item by item reply with secondary level referencing from wellingtonstreet.
The Internet will not rest until this is resolved, or at least breaks it with a circular loop.

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Thoglette
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby Thoglette » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:26 pm

eldavo wrote:I vote for a triple quoted item by item reply with secondary level referencing from wellingtonstreet.
The Internet will not rest until this is resolved, or at least breaks it with a circular loop.
You forgot to invoke Godwin's law
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Re: Cyclists to be allowed to ride on any footpath

Postby eldavo » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:33 pm

Tl;dr

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