Someone just tried to run me down :(

[cj7hawk]

Is it a common experience?

I don't know how common it is, but I was doing a test run after calibrating the bike and had a first car almost hit me ( didn't see me coming ) and then the second almost ran me down as I went through a roundabout. If that wasn't bad enough, they tried to run me down as I continued through the roundabout.

I told the guy he was an idiot as I evaded him, so he slams on the brakes as he gets through and comes running after me - so I just u-turn on the road and head the other way and tell him I'll let the police deal with him...

What is it with this weather that brings out the idiots on the road? I don't think he "accidentally" overtook me on the roundabout. He was driving at me as I made the first exit and if I hadn't ridden away from him, would have hit me. From his response, he clearly wasn't just driving poorly - he was trying to run me down.

So I finished making the complaint and am just calming down - I brought my ride to a quick end and went home.

Just for note, I was wearing a high vis vest with reflective stripes, it was blue sky overhead with sun, I had a 10w high intensity headlamp running and a permanently lit taillight ( when I'm running on electric, I leave both running... ) AND I was making noise from the engine at full throttle. It's not possible to make a bicycle any more visible... This guy clearly hates people on bicycles on the road.

Time to invest in a permanent camera....

David.

[dmwill]

Where was this? Make/model/rego? Will help us avoid the nut case.

Cannot say I've had anyone ever intentionally drive or swerve at me. If anything it's just sheer impatience.

[Thoglette]

So I finished making the complaint

Well done. Hope you had numberplates

[cj7hawk]

Silverish sedan, guy with a beard, looked to be about 100kg, 40 to 50 ish. Blue license plates ( like the old personalized plates, without the P on the end ) MAP205 - I think this guy definitely hates bikes. I was kind of rattled by it, so didn't think to get anything else.

Just on that, I called the police back and asked if I could get a reference for the incident, and found out I just got an operator last time who should have handled the call differently and apparently just took what they call a general incident ( they did actually start to criticize the person who handled the call, then caught themselves and said something else ) - and mentioned I should go into the police station and make a statement as they can't take those over the phone. She suggested that given my description, if I was sure he was trying to cause me harm, it was assault and needs to be handled differently. Then she asked about evidence, and short of the GPS track to prove I was there, I have nothing.

I think I'll stay off the roads for the rest of today... Still too rattled to ride. The thing is, I look pretty distinctive. I ride with a high vis vest, have a round helmet and very, very bright lights ( and a petrol motor, and electric motor and batteries ) on the bike. And the engine is bright orange/red and very visible from the back like that, not to mention a permanent red light is mounted on the engine. And given the road, he most likely lives in the area... Since I ride through the area and around the local area a lot ( especially when testing designs ) I'm actually kind of concerned he might have another crack at me... I'm pretty sure his main objection was that he had to lock up all his wheels coming into the roundabout to avoid hitting me the first time, and then I suppose he figured he might as well run me off the road to sate his anger. Not a pleasant encounter...

David

[Thoglette]

I was kind of rattled by it, so didn't think to get anything else.

Ok, start writing a diary NOW. Record everything that happened today, in detail. Keep "thoughts" clearly separate from "recollection".

That you are rattled means you now MAY have grounds for laying assault charges. IANAAL but you may want to talk to one - especially if this person comes near you again. Likewise, keep an eye on your health.

[dampier]

Hi David,
Unfortunately this is just one of the things that happens when riding. It is not about how visible you are, whether you have right of way or even if you should riding be where you are. You just happened to be in his way, a little road rage occurred with little consequence to him (no cameras, thus it is just your word against his and he will deny that it ever occurred).

I doubt that he was targeting you specifically, wrong place at the wrong time. Most people have been through it, I have even it it happen from other cyclists when I have told them to get of my back wheel (I had one where the front wheel grazed my left heel, I have had enough accidents at 40+ and tend to brake first and think second).

Try the Mobius camera from http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mobius-Actio ... 232c961f6a, it is cheap, lasts around two hours and will pick up number plates.

[GregW]

.............. Still too rattled to ride. The thing is, I look pretty distinctive. I ride with a high vis vest, have a round helmet and very, very bright lights ( and a petrol motor, and electric motor and batteries ) on the bike. And the engine is bright orange/red and very visible from the back like that, not to mention a permanent red light is mounted on the engine..........................................

David

Excuse me! You were on a bicycle?

[ldrcycles]

.............. Still too rattled to ride. The thing is, I look pretty distinctive. I ride with a high vis vest, have a round helmet and very, very bright lights ( and a petrol motor, and electric motor and batteries ) on the bike. And the engine is bright orange/red and very visible from the back like that, not to mention a permanent red light is mounted on the engine..........................................

David

Excuse me! You were on a bicycle?

He has built an electric assist bicycle with a petrol engine that charges the batteries. Details here.

[Aushiker]

Is it a common experience?

Yes ... See this thread which is the appropriate place for these posts. Keeps them all together, more so for those not interested.

Time to invest in a permanent camera....

See this thread ... endless discussion on cameras.

Andrew

[CKinnard]

pretty normal to have the reaction you are having. you will feel rattled and insecure on the road for a week or so.
unfortunately, in the absence of witnesses, it's your word against his, which is why cameras should be fitted to all motor vehicles (as part of a black box system).

it's sad that a very small minority of morons with chips on their shoulders take it out on the most vulnerable. it's part of human nature, well at least in Australia....not in Europe though where the road rules are different.

btw, about 8 weeks ago, I had a block reverse his car back and deliberately accelerate up onto the traffic island (where I'd quickly taken refuge) to hit me with his car. about 8 other motorists saw this clearly, and not one stopped to offer to be a witness. I didn't bother reporting it either as I didn't get the rego number.

[HappyHumber]

As much as it maybe the fight vs. flight response at the time I do my best not escalate or give perpetrators a 'reason' to stop & retalliate further. And I know this can be easier said than done in the heat of the moment.

Whatever their personal issue is at home, at work or whatever they're just using a vulnerable element of society to channel their agro. It's an ugly mutation of broader road rage. Add to this the mix of drug, alcohol and prescription medication abuse making headlines for all of the symptomatic reasons (theft assaults, robberies and so forth) in today's society and it makes me not want to really invite confrontation at the scene of an incident.

Cyclists are a manufactured menace to some elements of society (Thanks Murdoch, Fairfax et al). In some peoples eyes in the heat of the moment, where they have their perceived superiority speed and strength they fell they can do something about this and "teach us a lesson". It's a classic bully scenario; they have the power at the time so they'll use it over you.

Even though I'm a big guy myself, I don't want to invite some amped up moron, buzzing on whatever with a chip on his shoulder to do a u-turn or hop out of his car and have a go at me.... so, I try... as hard as I can... not to give them a (visible or audible) reaction at the time. You have to work at other strategies such as the cameras and consistent Police reports to combat this menace and help quash this current societal trend.

Take a break, chill for a few days - but whatever you do, don't give up riding. I am optimistic that attitudes are slowly, SLOWLY changing for the better. Keep up the good fight, but dont' sink to the dckheads' level.

[yugyug]

+1. You fight bullying with smarts and strategies, not aggression.

It is really time the police step up their game and start dealing with bullying on the road. A task force (or whatever they do in that like) be set up.

Like Ckinnards suggestion of black boxed recorders for cars. Excellent concept, even if it was only in new cars at first. I assume unfortunately that we would only follow euro or US legislation in that regard...

[cj7hawk]

I went for a ride today and found myself looking for blue number plates everywhere. I guess that will pass in time. Got plenty wet too, so need to think about how to mount a camera that's always on and I can build a waterproof housing if needed.

Thanks for the suggestions and links - Very much appreciated -

David

[Mububban]

Glad you're okay cj. I've had plenty of close calls but it's always been inattentive drivers, not deliberate menace. Apart from !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! yelling something out of the window, I've never had anything thrown at me or had anyone try to run me down.....so far.....

[Hugor]

He has built an electric assist bicycle with a petrol engine that charges the batterie.

FFS what a farce!!! This is a cycling forum. Perhaps this thread should be redirected to the unregistered motorbikes forum.
These mutant bikes are adding fuel to the cyclist registration arguments.

[yugyug]

He has built an electric assist bicycle with a petrol engine that charges the batterie.

FFS what a farce!!! This is a cycling forum. Perhaps this thread should be redirected to the unregistered motorbikes forum.
These mutant bikes are adding fuel to the cyclist registration arguments.

While I'm not that interested in engined bikes personally, cj7hawk has spent a lot of time in other threads intelligently explaining why he is developing his tech and its benefits. His situation here demonstrates that regardless of having an engine he has been treated as a cyclist by a road rager, in a way that motorcyclists are not AFAIK.

Not sure I disagree that petrol bikes might be adding fuel to the rego debate, but it's a worthless argument unless you accept that the poor behavior of a small minority should dictate sweeping legislation against a well behaving majority.

[ldrcycles]

He has built an electric assist bicycle with a petrol engine that charges the batterie.

FFS what a farce!!! This is a cycling forum. Perhaps this thread should be redirected to the unregistered motorbikes forum.
These mutant bikes are adding fuel to the cyclist registration arguments.

While I'm not that interested in engined bikes personally, cj7hawk has spent a lot of time in other threads intelligently explaining why he is developing his tech and its benefits. His situation here demonstrates that regardless of having an engine he has been treated as a cyclist by a road rager, in a way that motorcyclists are not AFAIK.

Not sure I disagree that petrol bikes might be adding fuel to the rego debate, but it's a worthless argument unless you accept that the poor behavior of a small minority should dictate sweeping legislation against a well behaving majority.

+1. You really should read the thread i linked to before passing judgement Hugor, cj7hawk has put in plenty of work to ensure he is within both the letter and spirit of the relevant laws. I agree entirely that overpowered illegal wannabe motorbikes are dangerous, but that is not what cj7hawk has built.

[Mububban]

My understanding is he is building a system like the Holden (Chevy) Volt hybrid car. The petrol engine in no way moves the car. It is purely a petrol powered generator, that keeps the batteries charged, which in turn powers the electric motor for actual propulsion. The petrol generator means you remove range anxiety which is the main concern with electric propulsion. I reckon it's a brilliant idea for those who want a longer range e-boosted bike.

[HappyHumber]

FFS what a farce!!! This is a cycling forum. Perhaps this thread should be redirected to the unregistered motorbikes forum.
These mutant bikes are adding fuel to the cyclist registration arguments.

Way to go Hugor. Generalisations all round.

[casual_cyclist]

He has built an electric assist bicycle with a petrol engine that charges the batterie.

FFS what a farce!!! This is a cycling forum. Perhaps this thread should be redirected to the unregistered motorbikes forum.

The law says it is a bicycle. It is a bicycle.

These mutant bikes are adding fuel to the cyclist registration arguments.

No, they are not.

It sounds like you are saying the guy had it coming because he has a motor on his bike. Under no circumstances is it ok for a motor vehicle driver to attempt to run down another road user. Not only is it illegal but it is also wrong.

[Hugor]

All I saw was amateur physics, illogical comparisons, and keyboard diarrhoea in those threads.
The guy would terminate arguments with such volumes of rubbish that people would get bored and move on.
Clearly too much time on his hands.

The law says it is a bicycle. It is a bicycle.

Not for long it seems judging by trends in other states. Then it will just become an unregistered motorcycle.
Oh how easy life would be if I could just do and believe what someone told me.
Only then would I clearly be able to distinguish between what is right or wrong; or what is a bicycle and what isn't!

No, they are not.

OK then!!
Whilst that response is clearly more succinct than c7hawk's its really not that informative. We've gone from one extreme to the other!!

Not only is it illegal but it is also wrong.

Wrong doesn't matter at all by your arguments. Only whats illegal.
Laws change but wrong doesn't!

[cj7hawk]

All I saw was amateur physics, illogical comparisons, and keyboard diarrhoea in those threads.
The guy would terminate arguments with such volumes of rubbish that people would get bored and move on.
Clearly too much time on his hands.

The law says it is a bicycle. It is a bicycle.

Not for long it seems judging by trends in other states. Then it will just become an unregistered motorcycle.
Oh how easy life would be if I could just do and believe what someone told me.
Only then would I clearly be able to distinguish between what is right or wrong; or what is a bicycle and what isn't!

Hi Hugor -

Different threads and different bicycles you're confusing there - The petrol PAPC and the Range Extended Electric posts are in different forum locations. The Range Extended Electric Bicycle thread is a lot shorter - I was riding the REEB (electric) when this guy took a crack at me. It has a very small generator on it to charge the batteries.

Also, I don't get to decide what is a bicycle and what is not either - The Department of Transport makes those decisions - and in this case, they have officially confirmed it is legal under both PAPC (200W) and Pedelec (250W) updated rules because a generator is not a propulsion motor. The DoT has been very helpful in providing information to assist me in this project.

As such, this particular bicycle is legal in all states as the gen system currently conforms to EN15194 requirements, though presently I have it set up as a PAPC at 200W. It's the bike electrics that determine what the bike is - not the battery charging system.

Regards
David

[find_bruce]

Hugor there is much in what you say. However the penalty for riding an illegal motorbike is a fine, not run down by a car & the person who gets to decide if it is illegal & the penalty to impose is a judge in a courtroom, not some random stranger driving by.

As for being wrong on the internet

[Hugor]

Hey, I never stated the OP deserved the incident he experienced. Absolutely nobody deserves being deliberately run down by a car.
It doesn't matter whether they are abiding by the rules/law or not. Deliberate collision with another vehicle or person is not only "wrong" but coincidentally "illegal" (casual_cyclist).
Even unregistered motorcycles have rights!!

[cj7hawk]

Saw the police today - another lecture about how they would'nt have not assigned a report number as it was technically an assault and I should have told them that. I just explained that I didn't know what it was, I was just reporting it. A few backs and forths about what made me think it was an assault and not just careless driving and then they seemed to see my side of it. But still insistent that it was going to be in the system, they looked and sure enough it was there, so I got the incident number and didn't need to make any further report.

So it's in the system... I doubt much will come of it - but it is there. At least if he keeps that kind of stuff up, the next report will add to it. I guess without further evidence, there's not much more I can do. I was not injured, just shaken and even though I still find myself looking for him over my shoulder, it's over.

Outcome: I have a new camera on order, the one recommended in the thread ( thank you ) and just got my 32 Gb card for it today. I want one on the rear as well, but will start with one so I can learn what I need to know about it. -

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments - it did help me deal with it -

David.