I had a crash, need help to see who is in the wrong.

[bobskibruno]

Hi my name is Boris and i am 15,
I recently got myself in a little bit of a crash. Let me tell you the story.
So if you go on google maps and type in 11 harvest terrace, that's where the crash happened (go in street view mode if u want to picture the crash better.
Now my memory is a little hazy as it was a while ago but i will try my best.
harvest terrace is a little bit of a steep hill bear that in mind.

I just rode from Tuart Hill to kings park, i think a little over 8km.
On my way back i was riding my bike along harvest terrace (facing pretty much north).
I think it is pretty important to mention i was riding on the footpath as it was pretty busy at the time. ( i now know that it is illegal to ride on the footpath if you are over the age of 12, im 15)
http://prntscr.com/84316v (This is an image of the direction i was heading and where i crashed.

I was riding at a sort of fast pace, fast enough that i started to apply the breaks so i wasn't going to fast.
A man who was carrying something i completely forgot what comes out of the houses and starts walking to his jeep.
http://prntscr.com/8433l6
In the image above is what i tried to draw the scenario. I'm really sorry for my bad drawing i was using my mouse.
I saw him and i slowed down, let him pass to go to his car.
i started riding again, wasn't moving fast at all, probably the speed of somebody jogging.
http://prntscr.com/8437om
This car out of nowhere comes out, i try to break and turn out of the way but i couldn't and ended up hitting the car.
I have a witness (the guy that i slowed down for) he said she(the driver of the car that i hit) was supposed to give way.
In conclusion the repair for the 2 dents and 1 scratch totaled to $1000!!!

I need to know who was in the wrong. i know i did something wrong (ride on the footpath). but i was told that riding on the road was alot more dangerous. seeming that people seem to hate cyclists. Do i have to report it to the police? Apparently the fines don't stop there, we have to pay for them to rent a car while there car is in repair. Is this correct? Do i have to pay the fine at all? I dont know what to do. $1000 is alot of money.

[just4tehhalibut]

Firstly, you're asking the Internet for advice, anything said hereunder may be less useful than an opinion in the Sunday Times, whatever that means.

Secondly, you haven't been fined, you're received a demand. I had someone open a car door on me once then phone up days later after I'd finished sorting out the broken arm, asked me how I'd decided to pay for his car. He worked for a smash repairers and prepared an especially juicy bill for me. I countered that, actually the onus was on him to take care and that he should really be paying for my bike repair and doctors bills. The demand stopped. You've been givien a demand for $1000 with threat of further costs, this is just the first thrust in a sword fight, you should be aware that a judge wouldn't necessarily award all the costs against you but rather look at a proportion based on responsibility, in other words you can counter that you have damages to yourself and your bike, that the driver transgressed the law by failing to give way, that you have witness to this should it go to court for either the damages issue or the traffic violation. I think when you start to mention the magical words "medical bill" the driver will blink first. Someone else here might be able to tell you if this accident is a reportable event to the police, it used to be if the costs were over $1000 but that must have changed.

[thecaptn]

Give these guys a ring if you haven't already,
http://www.legalaid.wa.gov.au/Pages/Default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kalgrm]

Last I heard, the threshold was $3000 before reporting to police. That was some time ago though.

I'm no lawyer so I won't offer an opinion on your plight Boris.

Cheers,
Graeme

[Bunged Knee]

Last I heard, the threshold was $3000 before reporting to police. That was some time ago though.

Cheers,
Graeme

It`s correct. Google "report a traffic crash in wa" and it comes up and click on WA for more info.

[dmwill]

Yep, threshold is $3k.

http://www.police.wa.gov.au/Traffic/Rep ... fault.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[1talian.steel]

In WA this comes under strict liability as far as the driver is concerned, a driver who is entering the roadway from private property must take all care and in most cases is automatically at fault. The same thing happened to me (except I was in the car); we were leaving the carpark of some residential flats, and we were hit by a cyclist. The facts were as follows: the cyclist (a 17 year old) was riding on the pavement too fast downhill, his bike was not in roadworthy condition, we exited the car park at slow speed and checking for both traffic and pedestrians - in short there was nothing we could do to avoid the accident. However, we were deemed to be at fault. If you are being chased for monies, I would definitely talk with a lawyer, because the best way to respond to the demands is with a letter from a lawyer, and my opinion is that you are not in the wrong.

[1talian.steel]

Here is a link to the relevant section of the Traffic Act: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/c ... 3/s57.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bobskibruno]

Thanks alot everyone. I forgot to mention that i didnt really get hurt besides my wrist. Didnt even go to the doctors for it. Hopefully they just make a claim and save alot more money.

[Thoglette]

Didnt even go to the doctors for it.

Go to the doctors. NOW. Ensure that you tell the doctor you were hit by a vehicle on a road reserve.
30 seconds with your favourite search engine will tell you why.

[wellington_street]

bobskibruno, regardless of whether you were permitted to ride on the footpath or not at the time, the driver crossing the road-related area is required to give way and is at fault. I assume they did not stop and check your age before hitting you

Some good advice in this thread - please take it and make sure you get checked out for injuries.

In future I would probably use the road on that part of Harvest Terrace - the driveways have poor visibility of anyone on the path and the road is relatively quiet.

[m@]

I assume they did not stop and check your age before hitting you

It would almost be worth letting it go to court just to use this line!

[RoFlmaTiC]

Was this guy parked on the verge and then driving into the driveway? Or coming out of the driveway?

Just to play devils advocate - I'd think you need to be going quite fast to make 2 dents in a car. So it's a bit unfair to put the driver solely to blame if he/she has checked for people on the footpath without accounting for people who might be fanging it down that hill (especially if they are pulling out of a driveway where visibility is inherently limited).

If this is the case maybe a better solution would be to pay for half the repair costs?

[cj7hawk]

Although it's been said, it needs to be said again and again. Get legal advice.

If legal aid can't assist, contact the Sussex St Community Law Center in Vic Park - They will help -

Anyway, it sounds like you're not in the wrong, even if you were on the path. As was mentioned, they had the same obligation to check for bicycles, and would have reasonably been aware that bicycles travel faster downhill due to rolling, and failed to take reasonable care and were negligent. Your extra age would not have contributed to the accident ( except maybe a few kilo's ) and even the premier has indicated it's a stupid law that needs to be changed, so you have all that in your favor.

Now... You WILL need to replace your forks and front wheel at a minimum as they WOULD have been damaged - And you will also need to replace your helmet. Time for you to get some quotations. Also, get a quotation for a bicycle shop professional to do all the work, check the bike for damage ( cracks, etc ) and make sure it's safe to ride. Add that all up. It won't be insignificant either.

Also, your wrist was injured. Get it checked. I still have scars and injuries from being run down as a kid, and they DO affect me even today... Not to mention they completely screwed up my schooling... The likely costs to me over a lifetime could easily be measured in the millions. Never underestimate an injury. No matter how small or insignificant it may seem. Especially your wrists. And be honest with your doctor that it's been sore but you were too embarassed to see a doctor if it wasn't hurting a lot. Wrist injuries will come back to haunt you in later life.

When dealing with people who send demands to a kid for money, take it VERY seriously... And you'd be morally right to give them a reason to regret not walking away while they could have.... Asking a 15 year old kid to pay for that kind of accident is pretty disgraceful IMO..

That ride is on my way home... I might have a look at the location tonight and offer some other thoughts.

David.

[dmwill]

On the repair side of things....are the costs based their estimate? Are they doing it via insurance or directly approaching a repairer themselves?

Personally I would ask to see a couple of written quotes.

[citywomble]

Hi bobskibruno,

There is absolutely no doubt that the driver was at fault and, if the matter proceeded to the police (no $3k limit for injury accidents) could be facing a fine of 4 penalty units. They breached Reg 57 (1) (c) of the Road Traffic Code 2000 (RTC).

They might counter argue that you were riding illegally on the footpath. That would not release them from their obligation and offence as they are required (no exceptions) to give way to any vehicle (read bicycle) or pedestrian on the path they are crossing (c) is explicit about that. They could try to could confer some contributory liability on you - but it should not.

Here is something most lawyers don't realise, But some who read the law in enough detail do, or could. You should insist that the path you were riding on is a shared path and that you are allowed to ride there as it is an unsigned, or de facto, shared path. The reason for this is that the definition of a shared path - at the front of the RTC, is:
"A path that starts with a shared path sign or marking or any other path where one of its main uses is by cyclists". Now here comes the clever bit - because a child under 12, and Australia Post bicycles, are allowed to ride on footpaths unless there are signs otherwise, then one of the main uses of that path IS by cyclists. There is no difference (in the risk to them and the offence they committed by not yielding to you) between you at 15, a child under 12, or a postman on a bike.

Either ignore them totally (that might end it) or write back and explain everything above, state firmly that you consider the path is a shared path and that, regardless of what they think, the law places them clearly in the wrong and liable if they escalate the matter higher. The RTC reg 57 (1) ( c) leaves no doubt at all, especially (c) which requires giving way to bikes (which are vehicles) and pedestrians on that path.

Good luck.

[ColinOldnCranky]

He has no idea if a kid of any age is riding so he should always be prepared for a rider, legal or not.

Onjustifying riding on the path, I am afraid that it probably wouldn't hold much water with any neutral party. I know the area and that section of road is about as tame a road as there is. It's a bit of a stretch to accept the imperative to ride on the path to avoid it. Though if you are a very VERY new and rider yet to gain the confidence of a regular then perhaps at a pinch.

Someone suggested you go to legal aid. (Does it still exist?) I'd second that. I suspect that you would be best trying for a negotiated settlement rather than an all-out win.

And lastly, consider that you have already had one win - no serious injury.