Bike Boulevards in Perth

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AlexHuggs
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Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby AlexHuggs » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:15 pm

Yes please! Is our government getting smart?

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Cycleops70
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby Cycleops70 » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:22 pm

Usual "don't play rego" "they're dangerous" "they break laws" drivel in the comments.

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby Mulger bill » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Pot stirring already commenced.
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scotchegg
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby scotchegg » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:11 pm

A segment was just on 7 news regarding this . The trial areas I caught were Surrey Road in Carlisle and a street in Mt Hawthorn.
Due to be finished mid 2016.

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Red Rider
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby Red Rider » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:00 pm

More details at The West

Looks like great plans, hopefully they'll be implemented without too much issue. I regularly use part of one of the proposed routes.
“We want to start to change the culture,” Transport Minister Dean Nalder said. “And we want to provide links through the suburbs to designated bike paths.

“This will make cycling safer and neighbourhoods more liveable.”
Thumbs up.

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby cj7hawk » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:07 am

I live in an area where the streets are designed for pedestrians and cyclists - and except for a few interconnecting roads, it's highly effective - there are no bike lanes here, but the natural shape of the road limits speed, and being very community oriented, speeding cars are rare, excepting visitors to the area.

So I think the plan sounds great - the streets will really benefit from this and it will let families get out on the road more often. You'll probably see games of footy and cricket played out on the road from time to time.

Attitudes will only change over decades. Though this change will be paid for in blood many times yet - But Perth will be a very different place two decades from now.

In the mean time, uploading videos of every infraction against our safety we see at least helps to speed things up :) The proliferation of video of bad driving really does help. So to see more bike boulevards, get more cameras out there and capture more indications that every time we ride, we're exposed to danger.

Changing the streets should be the top priority - bicycle paths should be a second option only IMO.

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby SimoneF » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:34 am

From the pictures provided, I still don't understand why the street verges have to be so big, now I know they cover services, but why can't the verge be chopped back by a couple of metres and a bike lane painted or bike path laid? Problem solved or is that too simple? You could still put two lanes for cars PLUS the red asphalt bike lanes each side, if they just made the bloody verges smaller 3 m instead of 4 or 5 m!

Am missing something here or are Main Roads just unaware that they are wasting road reserve on water guzzling grassed verge??

I cannot get my head around it.

I ride on Kewdale Road daily next to a 5/6 metre grassed verge, why cant it be chopped back and given over to a bike lane/path?
I'm mean I know its expensive to relocate the services e.g drains etc but then why are they built so close to the road in the first place...........????
Shouldn't this be happening on all new roads being built? if not, why not?

I ride over the virgin new Horrie Miller Drive overpass at the Gateway development and there is NO painted bikes lanes, NO bike paths and only a concrete foot path on ONE side of the overpass! I mean how does Main Roads get away with this? This is brand new road! Why are they still subscribing to the outdated 2 modal transport of pedestrians and vehicles?? Same old crap unfortunately, but these new Boulevards do go someway to promoting cycling.
What's to stop people parking on them? In my area of Queens Park, the residents park on the road or verge, you cant even get them to park in their own driveway!
There needs to be a matching Main Roads marketing campaign, especially targeting the habits of newly arrived migrants to educate them about these new Boulevards or they wont work!

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Red Rider
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby Red Rider » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:16 pm

Simone, having an ~11m wide roadway in the suburbs probably isn't very economic, practical, inviting or aesthetically pleasing. Where would street trees go? And many motor vehicle drivers would see this as an invitation to speed through such a wide roadway.

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ColinOldnCranky
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:34 pm

Hmmm. Sounded good at first. Not so sure after refelction.

This is a PILOT. As such, if it gives lesser outcomes than we would want then it becomes a tool for stifling progress rather than enhancing it. Something for the critics.

A few short streets in different locations are likely to:
  • NOT get a lot of potential cyclists that do not cycle because they fear roads. They are only served if they start and finish their trip on the one pilot road. How many services and shops are on those roads anyway?
    It certainly won't turn those three suburbs into models of local transport efficiency with people doing their local errands on a bike. ergo, not delivering the intended benefits.
  • Now I assume cars on these roads will be unable to pass in opposite directions unless they deviate onto the cycle lanes. Cyclists will have priority so, likely, this could work safely. Maybe those already cycling may take advantage of the road, rerouting from their normal route. Which may make the road unusable by cars. An outcome that could kill any expansion of the concept.
  • If neither of the two above eventuate then we will not much bike traffic. Another failure.
So the outcome could be any no change in local cycling culture; undrivable road; or no increase in cycle activity along the road. All of which can count as a failures.

Far better as a test would be to try it out in one local area around and including high density of local services/shops etc. ie GIve it a chance to modify local transport culture.

Of course, there is one benefit. A pilot needs time to bed down and cause change after which there is time required to assess and report. The government can be seen to be doing something for us disgruntled voting cyclists that will take time well past the next election and cost the government not much money at all.

Am I being too cycnical here? I wasn''t when I first heard it, but on reflection... :?
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Hugor
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby Hugor » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:08 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: Far better as a test would be to try it out in one local area around and including high density of local services/shops etc. ie GIve it a chance to modify local transport culture.

Freo sounds ideal. Its on most cyclists river loops and has a decent local population of hipsters or hippies keen to promote greener alternatives.

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby jlh » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:41 pm

Political suicide to the council that does it, and Freo won't even thigh the mayor is a self confessed bike rider

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:00 pm

Hugor wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote: Far better as a test would be to try it out in one local area around and including high density of local services/shops etc. ie GIve it a chance to modify local transport culture.

Freo sounds ideal. Its on most cyclists river loops and has a decent local population of hipsters or hippies keen to promote greener alternatives.
Yep, that'd be a good choice except that a pilot needs to be in the sort of environment that is well repeated around the greater metro area and Freo is largely a one-off. It is already significantly what the pilot is trying to generate. It is saturated with local-area commuting and errand riders already. Volume changes may not be as apparent as the typical suburb, neither change in speeds or right-of-way behaviour where the traffic trundles along at sub-30kph broadly anyway. It could however reveal some safety and accident data.

I reckon it needs proving in a more typical cycling-averse suburb, with lots of urbanites, local shops and services, etc. Without too much thought, maybe Mt Lawley, maybe Subiaco, maybe Armadale central.
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby wellington_street » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:54 pm

jlh wrote:Political suicide to the council that does it, and Freo won't even thigh the mayor is a self confessed bike rider
Interesting that this information was made public to residents immediately prior to the election - I wonder if there is a story behind that? Nonetheless, Carey's team was voted back in and now have a mandate (for lack of better term). Maybe others will follow now that elections are done?

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby chuckchunder » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:11 pm

I’m a bit bemused by the Media Statement and the subsequent reports in the media. The media reports appear to be a simple regurgitation of the Media Statement issued by the Minister’s office without any other research or educated comment regarding the Bicycle Boulevards implementation. There appears to be nothing in support of the Media Statement other than a graphic which is faithfully reproduced by all of the media outlets showing a road with a single motor vehicle lane and extra wide cycle lanes.

In the illustration motor vehicles are following cyclists awaiting the opportunity to pass the cyclists and each other. I’m unsure how this is any different to the current situation on the road. In a similar situation on Surrey Rd at the moment, ie cyclists riding in both directions with following cars, how does marking the road with extra wide cycle lanes change the scenario? The motor vehicles are currently required to wait behind the cyclists in order to make their pass due to the width of the road. How will marking very wide bicycle lanes change the behaviour of a motorist who intends passing without regard to safety for the cyclist?
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roller
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby roller » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:38 am

I notice that the original article stated:

"The promenades are expected to be up and running by the middle of next week"

This was Oct 24 - so are they a thing yet?

I live near one (Bayswater), I should really go and investigate and report back eh?

My fear for these are that that 1% of motorists will think that 1 bike boulevard per suburb will make cyclists on any other road in that suburb fair game.

Hopefully these will help those not confident feel a bit safer and get a few more people cycling, I'd really like to see an entire suburb get the treatment though, not just a few streets here and there.
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby NASHIE » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:13 pm

I don't like this idea at all. A 1m wide painted green lane with large ripple strips/slugs etc that make it very uncomfortable for vehicles to enter the bike lane would be a safer and cheaper pilot IMO. I agree with a previous post that long term verges should be reduced so 1-1.5m (small road sweeper width) bike lanes that are kerbed both sides totally eliminating car/bike interaction are the way forward to get people safely communting around their suburbs

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby wellington_street » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:08 pm

roller wrote:I notice that the original article stated:

"The promenades are expected to be up and running by the middle of next week"

This was Oct 24 - so are they a thing yet?

I live near one (Bayswater), I should really go and investigate and report back eh?

My fear for these are that that 1% of motorists will think that 1 bike boulevard per suburb will make cyclists on any other road in that suburb fair game.

Hopefully these will help those not confident feel a bit safer and get a few more people cycling, I'd really like to see an entire suburb get the treatment though, not just a few streets here and there.
Surely "middle of next week" is actually "middle of next year"

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby rolandp » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:30 pm

WestCycle via Facebook
Today the first Bike Boulevard was launched on Shakespeare Street in Mt Hawthorn. Great to see a street transformed for the benefit of the local community. This is the first of many with another 2 about to commence construction and 7 more in the planning stages. #doublebikefunding #investincycling
This has taken 14 months since announced at a cost of around $800,000 for a 1km section. Would there be more time and cost effective solutions? I compared this to WestCycle the grade crossings for Hutton St, Karrinyup Rd and Cedric St which were identified 20 years ago in the original PBN plan, and we are still waiting for these.

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:43 pm

rolandp wrote:WestCycle via Facebook
Today the first Bike Boulevard was launched on Shakespeare Street in Mt Hawthorn. Great to see a street transformed for the benefit of the local community. This is the first of many with another 2 about to commence construction and 7 more in the planning stages. #doublebikefunding #investincycling
This has taken 14 months since announced at a cost of around $800,000 for a 1km section. Would there be more time and cost effective solutions? I compared this to WestCycle the grade crossings for Hutton St, Karrinyup Rd and Cedric St which were identified 20 years ago in the original PBN plan, and we are still waiting for these.
The Glendalough to Hutton PSP upgrade missed out in this year's budget too. It seems to be harder to get a big lump of funding for a single project - e.g. the $10M+ for Glendalough-Hutton.

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby Thoglette » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:49 pm

wellington_street wrote:The Glendalough to Hutton PSP upgrade missed out in this year's budget too. It seems to be harder to get a big lump of funding for a single project - e.g. the $10M+ for Glendalough-Hutton.
But there's still funding to "upgrade" Reid Hwy into a no-bikes freeway
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wellington_street
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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby wellington_street » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:58 pm

Thoglette wrote:
wellington_street wrote:The Glendalough to Hutton PSP upgrade missed out in this year's budget too. It seems to be harder to get a big lump of funding for a single project - e.g. the $10M+ for Glendalough-Hutton.
But there's still funding to "upgrade" Reid Hwy into a no-bikes freeway
Yep - despite Nalder's proclamations about how much they were spending on cycling last FY they didn't allocate any money for a proper PSP on Reid Highway.

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Re: Bike Boulevards in Perth

Postby Thoglette » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:18 pm

Hugor wrote:Freo sounds ideal. .
Freo proper doesn't need any bike boulevards. The one or heavy traffic routes in/out (e.g. Hampden, Parry) mostly have decent bike lanes. The rest of the city has appropriate speed limits and/or traffic calming measures.

Unlike most of Perth, Freo doesn't try to run heavy traffic through it's heart. Indeed, like sensible towns and cities it makes it hard to drive through the city (except the main drag which is set to 30kph).
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