For those who don't read The West, one of the resident columnists recently lost her license for, ahem, not paying attention to the speedo. Again.
As a resul she's become, if unwittingly and unwillingly, yet another modern utility cyclist. And has recently discovered that, despite the challenges, riding around is, well, actually FUN.
Here columns eventually get posted here
Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
- Thoglette
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Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby Thoglette » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:42 am
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby Sinner » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:11 pm
I think one of they key things I picked up when I read it yesterday, was that she needed to plan her journey and have the right carrying equipment for what she expected to buy. She was lucky she didn't smash those eggs!
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Re: Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby cj7hawk » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:03 pm
Actually, I thought it interesting how she talked down the issue of multiple speeding fines, essentially careless driving, especially not caring about the speed dropping as she went into another zone, as if it's completely socially acceptable to do that kind of stuff to the point you lose your license.
The problem is that the sort of driving that most people feel is acceptable is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are -
I wonder how many demerits were issued last year - I bet it's far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs.
She seems to be open learning though I see that as promising - And I hope her cycling experience is as positive as possible -
Regards
David
The problem is that the sort of driving that most people feel is acceptable is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are -
I wonder how many demerits were issued last year - I bet it's far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs.
She seems to be open learning though I see that as promising - And I hope her cycling experience is as positive as possible -
Regards
David
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Re: Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby 방구 똥 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:01 pm
From my observations, it appears that many cyclists feel it acceptable to go through red lights, which is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are. Last week, I saw a cyclist ride a red light infront of a police car, and the police did not do anything. If it was a car, I'm sure the police wouldn't hesitate to issue demerits.cj7hawk wrote:Actually, I thought it interesting how she talked down the issue of multiple speeding fines, essentially careless driving, especially not caring about the speed dropping as she went into another zone, as if it's completely socially acceptable to do that kind of stuff to the point you lose your license.
The problem is that the sort of driving that most people feel is acceptable is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are -
I wonder how many demerits were issued last year - I bet it's far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs.
She seems to be open learning though I see that as promising - And I hope her cycling experience is as positive as possible -
Regards
David
I'm think the number of demerits issued last year would be far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs: simply because they don't get stopped for doing so!
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Re: Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby cj7hawk » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:55 pm
I wasn't talking about cyclists fined for going through red lights, but cyclists going through red lights, whether fined or not.방구 똥 wrote:From my observations, it appears that many cyclists feel it acceptable to go through red lights, which is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are. Last week, I saw a cyclist ride a red light infront of a police car, and the police did not do anything. If it was a car, I'm sure the police wouldn't hesitate to issue demerits.cj7hawk wrote:Actually, I thought it interesting how she talked down the issue of multiple speeding fines, essentially careless driving, especially not caring about the speed dropping as she went into another zone, as if it's completely socially acceptable to do that kind of stuff to the point you lose your license.
The problem is that the sort of driving that most people feel is acceptable is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are -
I wonder how many demerits were issued last year - I bet it's far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs.
She seems to be open learning though I see that as promising - And I hope her cycling experience is as positive as possible -
Regards
David
I'm think the number of demerits issued last year would be far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs: simply because they don't get stopped for doing so!
Also, there's a significant difference in the offence - A car going through a stop sign or red light ( treating them as a give way ) is a danger to everyone else. A cyclist going through a stop sign is only a danger to themselves and it's also been demonstrated that treating these as a give-way/stop sign is a safe and practical alternative for cycles - so much so that some laws already exist in places that allow this exception. ( eg, The Idaho Stop )
To this extent, it is more dangerous in WA to go on a green light when on a cycle path as there is no legal right-of-way than it is on a red one - and it's also unlikely the law will change unless there's a critical mass of cyclists doing it.
Personally, I'm a bit of a stickler for the law, so I usually stop and wait - but I can see valid social reasons for cyclists pushing against the boundaries of these laws. Meanwhile, there's empirical evidence that despite the feeling many motorists have that cyclists are riding dangerously, that the actions of cyclists in going through stop signs and red lights doesn't actually contribute any towards the accident rate, and 90%+ of accidents are still entirely due to the motor vehicle involved.
On the other hand, managing to lose a license through speeding indicates either the driver wasn't paying attention, or was deliberately driving too fast and refused to slow down. Given the number of campaigns to "slow down", it is difficult to justify speeding so regularly.
My point is that many drivers who won't slow down, also won't slow down to follow a cycle long enough for it to be safe to pass. This is why I have a problem with impatient drivers.
Yes, I'm not perfect, and I still I get the occasional speeding ticket even while my wife has never had one in 25 years - Even got one for 10-19kph a decade back ( 100 to 60 zone, down a steep hill, and I was slow in braking ) - Mostly these are a wakeup call to me to pay more attention to my speed. Or more attention looking out for multanovas. Last ticket I got was 64 in a 60 zone...
Regards
David.
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Re: Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby 방구 똥 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:23 pm
Hi David,cj7hawk wrote:I wasn't talking about cyclists fined for going through red lights, but cyclists going through red lights, whether fined or not.방구 똥 wrote:From my observations, it appears that many cyclists feel it acceptable to go through red lights, which is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are. Last week, I saw a cyclist ride a red light infront of a police car, and the police did not do anything. If it was a car, I'm sure the police wouldn't hesitate to issue demerits.cj7hawk wrote:Actually, I thought it interesting how she talked down the issue of multiple speeding fines, essentially careless driving, especially not caring about the speed dropping as she went into another zone, as if it's completely socially acceptable to do that kind of stuff to the point you lose your license.
The problem is that the sort of driving that most people feel is acceptable is actually pretty dangerous and indicates a willingness to push beyond where the laws are -
I wonder how many demerits were issued last year - I bet it's far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs.
She seems to be open learning though I see that as promising - And I hope her cycling experience is as positive as possible -
Regards
David
I'm think the number of demerits issued last year would be far more than the number of incidents of cyclists going through red lights or stop signs: simply because they don't get stopped for doing so!
Also, there's a significant difference in the offence - A car going through a stop sign or red light ( treating them as a give way ) is a danger to everyone else. A cyclist going through a stop sign is only a danger to themselves and it's also been demonstrated that treating these as a give-way/stop sign is a safe and practical alternative for cycles - so much so that some laws already exist in places that allow this exception. ( eg, The Idaho Stop )
To this extent, it is more dangerous in WA to go on a green light when on a cycle path as there is no legal right-of-way than it is on a red one - and it's also unlikely the law will change unless there's a critical mass of cyclists doing it.
Personally, I'm a bit of a stickler for the law, so I usually stop and wait - but I can see valid social reasons for cyclists pushing against the boundaries of these laws. Meanwhile, there's empirical evidence that despite the feeling many motorists have that cyclists are riding dangerously, that the actions of cyclists in going through stop signs and red lights doesn't actually contribute any towards the accident rate, and 90%+ of accidents are still entirely due to the motor vehicle involved.
On the other hand, managing to lose a license through speeding indicates either the driver wasn't paying attention, or was deliberately driving too fast and refused to slow down. Given the number of campaigns to "slow down", it is difficult to justify speeding so regularly.
My point is that many drivers who won't slow down, also won't slow down to follow a cycle long enough for it to be safe to pass. This is why I have a problem with impatient drivers.
Yes, I'm not perfect, and I still I get the occasional speeding ticket even while my wife has never had one in 25 years - Even got one for 10-19kph a decade back ( 100 to 60 zone, down a steep hill, and I was slow in braking ) - Mostly these are a wakeup call to me to pay more attention to my speed. Or more attention looking out for multanovas. Last ticket I got was 64 in a 60 zone...
Regards
David.
When cyclists ride red lights, I observe that they always do a risk assessment first (look left, look right, look for police), and not blindly ride through the red light (similar for pedestrians jaywalking). They are breaking laws, but doing it safely. I see this a lot more often than cars running red lights - even when there's no other cars around and it's probably safe to go through, the red light means stop.
This morning, when the red man/bicycle started flashing, I rode through. I felt like a rebel.
Not safe on the bike path to go when it's green? Can you please explain this one, I think it's something I need to look out for next time
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Re: Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby cj7hawk » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:46 pm
You rebel ! Yes, I feel like that too -방구 똥 wrote:
Hi David,
When cyclists ride red lights, I observe that they always do a risk assessment first (look left, look right, look for police), and not blindly ride through the red light (similar for pedestrians jaywalking). They are breaking laws, but doing it safely. I see this a lot more often than cars running red lights - even when there's no other cars around and it's probably safe to go through, the red light means stop.
This morning, when the red man/bicycle started flashing, I rode through. I felt like a rebel.
Not safe on the bike path to go when it's green? Can you please explain this one, I think it's something I need to look out for next time
The issue with path crossings is that in many controlled intersections, there's no green man - pedestrians just have right of way when the lights turn green. But this is only for pedestrians, and it doesn't mention cyclists anywhere in the law. So unless there's specific cycle crossing signs, I don't think we ever have right of way at such intersections. If that is the case, then it is by far safest to proceed on a red, when we can see the traffic that threatens us, than on green, where the threat comes from our blind spot and usually doesn't check for cyclists in front of them before turning.
Regards
David
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Re: Ros Thomas discovers the simple joy of cycling
Postby 방구 똥 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:21 pm
Those parallel pedestrian crossings are scarey even as pedestrians when cars don't want to give way.cj7hawk wrote:You rebel ! Yes, I feel like that too -방구 똥 wrote:
Hi David,
When cyclists ride red lights, I observe that they always do a risk assessment first (look left, look right, look for police), and not blindly ride through the red light (similar for pedestrians jaywalking). They are breaking laws, but doing it safely. I see this a lot more often than cars running red lights - even when there's no other cars around and it's probably safe to go through, the red light means stop.
This morning, when the red man/bicycle started flashing, I rode through. I felt like a rebel.
Not safe on the bike path to go when it's green? Can you please explain this one, I think it's something I need to look out for next time
The issue with path crossings is that in many controlled intersections, there's no green man - pedestrians just have right of way when the lights turn green. But this is only for pedestrians, and it doesn't mention cyclists anywhere in the law. So unless there's specific cycle crossing signs, I don't think we ever have right of way at such intersections. If that is the case, then it is by far safest to proceed on a red, when we can see the traffic that threatens us, than on green, where the threat comes from our blind spot and usually doesn't check for cyclists in front of them before turning.
Regards
David
I think worse for cyclists who are quick moving rather than slow moving pedestrians (more time to be seen by the drivers).
One that comes to mind of the lights is where Caledonian Ave crosses the railway line and path!
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