East Perth PSP works - 23rd November

[softy]

I've checked out the map and i am going to try going over the graham farmer freeway, by the normal bridge, get off onto claisebrook rd, then right into summers st follow it around in front of the station, then onto W parade and under the Guildford subway, cross road then up back onto the PSP to Midland.

i just hope they don't block off the bridge so you can't get over the Graham farmer.

[Scott_C]

By my judgement there isn't enough room on the paths at Guildford Subway to ride through. If you do take the path on the south side of the subway then you need to cross 3 times at the East Parade/Guildford Rd lights to get back onto the PSP because there is no opportunity to cross on the subway side of the intersection.

I think the official diversion or walking over the East Perth station bridge would be better than going through the subway.

[Lozzie]

This is my normal route and I'm still learning to ride on the road. I'm terrified for tomorrow. Thankfully in three weeks I'm off on Xmas hols but I'm really dreading this. I also have no clue how to get to North Perthflr my Sat ride.

[Scott_C]

If you are particularly worried about it you can ride safely along the detour until you reach Kensington St and then walk your bike along the footpath on the southern side of Kensington St. It will add 10 minutes to the trip but will be perfectly safe.

[Lozzie]

Well rode this morning (only because I wanted to see the new route. Very sore after doing the Samtos yesterday) and it's now changed to 25 November!

[NewStew]

Hi All - well I have been having an email conversation with Joan at MRD and I am putting it here for everyone....

Bit of history - first MRD put me in touch with PTA who then put me back to MRD.

Her first email

"Good Morning Stewart

Thank you for your email in relation to the temporary detour of the shared use path along the Graham Farmer Freeway from Lord St to East Parade which has been forwarded to me from the Public Transport Authority.

I attach a detour map which illustrates the temporary detour whilst this path is realigned in preparation for future work on the Graham Farmer Freeway.

The underpass at East Parade will remain open and you will be able to access the Windan Bridge from here.

There will be access to the Claisbrook Train Station bridge during this work.

The detour takes users of the path travelling towards the city via East Parade, Kensington Street, Claisbrook Train Bridge and onto Edward St. Alternatively, users can access the city from the ramp half way along the Claisbrook Train Bridge and use the shared path along the rail line which leads either into the CBD or Northbridge.

The timeframe for preparation for this work has been very short. We are updating our website today and will be cascading messages via the website, cycling groups, media statements and social media.

I trust this answers your questions. Please contact me if I can be of any further help.

Kind regards
Joan"

My reply

"Hi Joan,

Thanks for your reply. Interesting though as it was MRD that initially put me onto the PTA.

Are you aware of the level of traffic that use the PSP, both cyclist and pedestrian, through that section? I can only tell you that it would be equivalent to the closure of the tunnel that happened when it was adjusted to three lanes and all traffic was sent down Newcastle St (I lived near there and it was mayhem) – and that was only for two weekeneds not an entire month.

Can I suggest that a month long closure of such a busy section of infrastructure and then suggesting that all of this additional traffic mix with the pedestrians in the Claisebrook train station is a recipe for disaster and that MRD should reconsider the work plan to accommodate partial closure or a proper detour as the MRD would do with a road closure affecting cars. Also your detour plan gives no thought whatsoever to pedestrian users who will be required to greatly extend their travel.

I await your response and will delay emailing my local member of parliament and the Minister for Transport to raise this issue to give MRD time to amend its planning and give consideration to the large numbers of daily users of this infrastructure.

Regards,"

Her email that I received this morning

"Good afternoon Stewart.

Thank you for your reply. I have left a message for you to call me in relation to this issue.

May I apologise that initially you were referred to PTA. This was as a result of the contact centre not having the most up to date information in relation to the works .

We do not have data for this part of the shared path network and have assumed that the majority path users will be travelling east or west from the Windan Bridge where we do have a counter. The volumes at this site indicate that there are between 80-90 users of the path in the AM peak hour of 7am – 8am and 80-90 users of the path in the PM peak hour between 5pm and 6pm.

This closure is necessary to install drainage and realign the shared path for future works on Graham Farmer Freeway and the East Parade off ramp. We considered a number of options including conducting these works at night with traffic management in place during the day. This would have resulted in the work taking up to three months to complete rather than just over three weeks. We are aware that this is a key east/ west connecting path and will do our utmost to complete the works as quickly as possible to reduce the impact to path users.

Whilst we will have a signposted detour there are other ways to access the path on the eastern side of East Parade as pedestrians will be able to use the footbridge at the East Perth train station. This is not a signed detour as it is not suitable for cyclists as they would have to dismount and walk across this bridge. We have measured the additional distance through the detour and minimised the route as much as possible in acknowledgement that this is a significant change for pedestrians.

Please let me know if I can be of any further help

Kind regards
Joan "

and my reply this morning

"Hi Joan,

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately you have missed one key consideration in your impact assessment and that is that a large amount of the traffic in the section you are disrupting, and I would put forward that it is a majority is coming onto that section from the PSP running along the Midland train line and not coming across the Windan bridge. I state this with some certainty as I ride that section every day (rain, hail or shine – although thankfully no hail to date) and the traffic is much lighter once you pass under East Parade and on to the Windan bridge.

On that basis I would estimate that the cyclist usage is more in the order of 300 to 400 users and then you could add an additional 150 pedestrians (or more) during this peak time. This gives you anything up to over 500 users that will be significantly disrupted. Based on your detour these road users will need to cross 3 sets of traffic lights during peak hour traffic and travel an extra 1,000 metres (1.39km v 0.37km). For a cyclist this will increase travel time by around 9 minutes (allowing for 20km/h versus 26km/h and 2 minutes waiting at each traffic lights). Worse still for a pedestrian it will add 18 minutes to the walking time (which I am guessing will drive many of them to drive to work increasing congestion and incurring a cost due to parking etc).

I would keen to see MRD’s impact assessment (which I am sure you have completed as I know it is a requirement for private bodies impacting on road users) where you properly assess the impacts and alternatives. Personally I think night works is a good option, as would be taking the emergency stopping lane from the adjacent road and using that as a temporary pathway for pedestrians and cyclists (at a suitable speed of course).

Regards,"

Will be interesting to see what I get back.....

[wellington_street]

Good stuff NewStew.

[Scott_C]

Very good work NewStew.

Good to see that the diversion is only 1km from Main Road's head office yet they can't be bothered actually sending someone down there to do a count.

Speaking of a count, the 2015 Super Tuesday count on Tuesday 3rd of March measured 500 to 700 riders taking this section of path in the 2hrs from 7am to 9am.

The WA Super Tuesday Count Summary is available online and this specific result can be seen on page 16.

So Main Roads seem to be underestimating traffic on this section by at least a factor of 3.

[NewStew]

Very good work NewStew.

Good to see that the diversion is only 1km from Main Road's head office yet they can't be bothered actually sending someone down there to do a count.

Speaking of a count, the 2015 Super Tuesday count on Tuesday 3rd of March measured 500 to 700 riders taking this section of path in the 2hrs from 7am to 9am.

The WA Super Tuesday Count Summary is available online and this specific result can be seen on page 16.

So Main Roads seem to be underestimating traffic on this section by at least a factor of 3.

Awesome find and that adds a heap of weight to the argument! Sent the document to MRD

Hi Joan,

Further to below if you refer to Page 16 of the attached it reveals between 500 and 700 cyclists counted in March this year travelling in the location that is proposed to be closed for a month for the peak morning period of 7am to 9am, adding pedestrians to that (and of course users during other times of day and considering people commute morning and night) and the number of impacted stakeholders get staggering. In fact that section of path is one of the busiest in the City of Perth (only the PSP along the railway near City West train station is measured as busier).

Maybe Main Roads could access the raw data from this actual count and then consider the impacts more effectively?

Regards,

[Scott_C]

Her email that I received this morning

Whilst we will have a signposted detour there are other ways to access the path on the eastern side of East Parade as pedestrians will be able to use the footbridge at the East Perth train station. This is not a signed detour as it is not suitable for cyclists as they would have to dismount and walk across this bridge. We have measured the additional distance through the detour and minimised the route as much as possible in acknowledgement that this is a significant change for pedestrians.

It may also be worth following up why they judge the East Perth Station footbridge as an unsuitable detour because it requires dismounting when the published detour requires dismounting to cross the 3 sets of traffic lights as there aren't cyclist lanterns on the marked pedestrian crossings.

[Lozzie]

Thank you for doing the email. It's riduclious it's going to take so long.

[1talian.steel]

There is an online form to submit complaints, can I encourage everyone to use it (https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Pages/c ... dback.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

[softy]

I've checked out the map and i am going to try going over the graham farmer freeway, by the normal bridge, get off onto claisebrook rd, then right into summers st follow it around in front of the station, then onto W parade and under the Guildford subway, cross road then up back onto the PSP to Midland.

i just hope they don't block off the bridge so you can't get over the Graham farmer.

Well i tried my new route today and it is foiled by Guildford road subway. The refugee is all kerb and unbroken i am not bunny hopping my carbon bike over it. So i will have to think of so ething else.

[wellington_street]

I've checked out the map and i am going to try going over the graham farmer freeway, by the normal bridge, get off onto claisebrook rd, then right into summers st follow it around in front of the station, then onto W parade and under the Guildford subway, cross road then up back onto the PSP to Midland.

i just hope they don't block off the bridge so you can't get over the Graham farmer.

Well i tried my new route today and it is foiled by Guildford road subway. The refugee is all kerb and unbroken i am not bunny hopping my carbon bike over it. So i will have to think of so ething else.

Heading outbound you could just ride on the road from Lord St to East Pde - there is a shoulder for most of it - then use East Pde. Same in the reverse direction. Not the safest but not illegal as its not part of the freeway.

[NewStew]

Final update. I spent 15 minutes on the phone with Main Roads yesterday afternoon and they were pleasant, however not very accommodating. They accepted that the traffic load on the PSP in that area was higher than their initial estimate however were not keen to put too much weight on the Super Tuesday count.

I suggested that they could do it as night works and was told that this would blow the program out to 3 months and add cost.

I suggested that they take over the emergency lane and create a temporary PSP and was told that the works were not long term enough to warrant that (apparently it needs to be 4 weeks to qualify as long term and they have conveniently managed to schedule it to be under that - just). They also suggested that it would be too dangerous to have pedestrians and cyclist close to the traffic like that (really, they cant get the cars to slow down and put barriers up).

I made the point again that there would be severe congestion through the train station and also at the intersections and was told that the bikes could be pushed through the train station and then ride on the road thereafter and cross as cars at the intersection. I also raised the point that I hoped there would be no agro with other pedestrians.

I have asked for a copy of the traffic management plan and she was going to see if she was allowed to send that to me... we shall see if it shows up.

I told her (with respect) that it was my impression was that Main Roads did not really care about anything other than cars and roads for cars - she disagreed but accepted that this was my carefully formed point of view (cant ask for more than that).

I dont know that there is anything that can be done - personally I like the option to ride on the slip road to from Lord St up to East Parade - as pointed out it isnt a freeway so isnt illegal but may be a little on the dangerous side unless Main Roads properly signposted it and did a temporary speed reduction to 40 km/h.... and that isnt likely. So it looks like we are stuffed and have 3-4 weeks of messy commuting

[wellington_street]

Final update. I spent 15 minutes on the phone with Main Roads yesterday afternoon and they were pleasant, however not very accommodating. They accepted that the traffic load on the PSP in that area was higher than their initial estimate however were not keen to put too much weight on the Super Tuesday count.

How ridiculous.
They have (deliberately?) taken only the Windan Bridge counter which is the less important of the two routes so haven't even picked up half the actual patronage.
Using the 2014 spreadsheet here (http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/activetr ... /25730.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) I am getting an average of 1600 bicycles per day on the Midland Line at Guildford Rd (~100% of these would continue onto the farmer freeway PSP) in March (the latest full month) and about 1,550 per day if you average it over Jan/Feb as well when people are on leave etc.
If you use the Windan Bridge counter, it's 1,180-1,200 for both periods.
So that's a total of just under 3,000 cyclists per day - and not a single 'F' given by Main Roads.

They also suggested that it would be too dangerous to have pedestrians and cyclist close to the traffic like that (really, they cant get the cars to slow down and put barriers up).

This is the problem when you're talking to a customer service pleb and not the relevant project manager. Obviously not aware of the exact same situation on the Kwinana Freeway at Baldivis occurring right now

[방구 똥]

Well rode this morning (only because I wanted to see the new route. Very sore after doing the Samtos yesterday) and it's now changed to 25 November!

Oh! 25th now? I thought it was starting 23rd, so yesterday I detoured up East Parade, to Kensington street, then up to Claisebrook.
It was a long wait at the lights

[Lozzie]

Yes tomorrow. I'm seriously considering doing a ride before/after work and catching the bus. Am terrified.

[방구 똥]

Yes tomorrow. I'm seriously considering doing a ride before/after work and catching the bus. Am terrified.

Don't be afraid, most drivers will avoid hitting cyclists.
Kensington street is also not too busy.

[Red Rider]

For those that use the Windan Bridge, it maybe easier, safer, and quicker to go under the bridge along the river and up to Victory Tce, onto Kensington. This cuts out the East Pde mess.

[NewStew]

For those that use the Windan Bridge, it maybe easier, safer, and quicker to go under the bridge along the river and up to Victory Tce, onto Kensington. This cuts out the East Pde mess.

I agree although be aware there is also some Public Transport Authority works going on which have a little bit of path closures near the bridge and therefore you may need to head straight down to the river before turning to go under the bridge. See the links to the map earlier in this thread.

Yes tomorrow. I'm seriously considering doing a ride before/after work and catching the bus. Am terrified.

Ride visible Lozzie and dont hug the kerb too much and you will be fine, as mentioned most (and I would say 99.9%) of drivers will avoid hitting someone. I actually think your chances of having a pedestrian move randomly into your path going along the PSP and sending you flying is far far higher than being hit by a car (although a car may hurt a bit more)

[wellington_street]

For those that use the Windan Bridge, it maybe easier, safer, and quicker to go under the bridge along the river and up to Victory Tce, onto Kensington. This cuts out the East Pde mess.

I agree although be aware there is also some Public Transport Authority works going on which have a little bit of path closures near the bridge and therefore you may need to head straight down to the river before turning to go under the bridge. See the links to the map earlier in this thread.

The route Red Rider posted is definitely open and available, I rode home that way last night.

[방구 똥]

For those that use the Windan Bridge, it maybe easier, safer, and quicker to go under the bridge along the river and up to Victory Tce, onto Kensington. This cuts out the East Pde mess.

I agree although be aware there is also some Public Transport Authority works going on which have a little bit of path closures near the bridge and therefore you may need to head straight down to the river before turning to go under the bridge. See the links to the map earlier in this thread.

The route Red Rider posted is definitely open and available, I rode home that way last night.

Thanks! I'll use this today Or maybe after tomorrow once the closure takes place!

[softy]

I'm not going to use that Kensington street, i would rather ride down lord street.

[matthecat]

Not closed this morning when I rode through so problem averted until this afternoon.
Given I ride in at about 5.30am and out at 3.30pm I'm just going to use Lord Street as there isn't too much traffic around.