East Perth PSP works - 23rd November

[Lozzie]

Was still open till just after 7am.

[NewStew]

Still open this morning at about 7:15. The scary part was that as I passed eastwards through the area that would be closed (all of about 45 seconds) I counted 10 cyclists and 2 pedestrians passing through in the other directions (towards the city), add to that say 3 going away from the city as I was and every time a traffic light is holding up the stream of traffic you will have 40 cyclists and pedestrians waiting when it goes green (assuming 2 minutes)..... three times over if you take the proposed detour by MRD!

[martc101]

There is an online form to submit complaints, can I encourage everyone to use it (https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Pages/c ... dback.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I have just submitted the following, will await the response.\:

I am enquiring regarding the proposed works to the PSP along the edge of the Graham Farmer Freeway in East Perth, schedule to commence today and run for a total of four weeks.
This is a significant part of Perth Cycling infrastructure, with this section of PSP carries the majority of traffic from the Perth-Midland Railway PSP, the Windan Bridge PSP and at least half of the traffic from the Banks Reserve Swan River PSP. The Department of Transport traffic count data showing that the monthly count in January 2014 equated to over 90,000 trips for the month accessing this pathway East and West (factoring in 50% of the Banks reserve count): http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFil ... a_2014.xls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is a significant volume of traffic for this section of infrastructure and due to its location, it is difficult to find alternate routes which can safely cross the major roads, rail and other infrastructure in this area. The alternate route posted on the MRD website this week: https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/UsingRo ... nance.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; does not offer sufficient detail or provide for an adequate and safe detour for this volume of traffic.
The lack of information and provision of alternate routes for this interruption demonstrates a significant underestimation of volume of traffic that this work will impact. This is significantly contrasted with the provisions made for a temporary PSP on the Perth-Midland Railway PSP at Third Avenue for the bridge works, and previously at Seventh Ave for the bridge works there.
As a major piece of transport infrastructure it is a reasonable expectation for a greater level of planning and consideration of the impact of these works on users and to provide a temporary PSP path along the edge of the Graham Farmer off-ramp to facilitate continued operation of this transport corridor through the works period.
I await your response

Great to see so much discussion and contributions on this issue, let's see how far we can push this...

[tallywhacker]

I normally go over Windan Bridge around burswood and over the Causeway to East Perth but wanted to see what was causing such a controversy.
did the first bit on the map below under Windan but continued around the river to the Claisebrook inlet then along the path to Felder St. No roads and a nice relaxing ride, no traffic apart from a few peds. Would have added no more than 5 minutes.

For those that use the Windan Bridge, it maybe easier, safer, and quicker to go under the bridge along the river and up to Victory Tce, onto Kensington. This cuts out the East Pde mess.

[방구 똥]

I did this last night, but missed the turn, ended up going past the basketball courts then back on track onto victory terrace.
I still got to see the man who lies down at the end of Windan bridge every day.

[Lozzie]

It was closed this afternoon. The detour is from just after you come off the bridge at Claisebrook. It sends you up Claisebrook Rd, down to East Perth station and over the foot bridge there. There does seem to be a lot of signs telling you to dismount (which I did) It's a pain but MUCH better than the other route. Plus it gives me Practise on hill climbs!

Coming in from Maylands and the Windan bridge there does seem to be a detour sign up the path before the tunnel but I'm going the East Perth detour instead.

[softy]

It was closed this afternoon. The detour is from just after you come off the bridge at Claisebrook. It sends you up Claisebrook Rd, down to East Perth station and over the foot bridge there. There does seem to be a lot of signs telling you to dismount (which I did) It's a pain but MUCH better than the other route. Plus it gives me Practise on hill climbs!

Coming in from Maylands and the Windan bridge there does seem to be a detour sign up the path before the tunnel but I'm going the East Perth detour instead.

Agreed.....

i came over the Windan bridge today, as i turned onto the Midland PSP the detour signs were right at the intersection.

Also someone had got their car up the PSP and parked at the corner on the garden area at the turn. I wonder if it was in protest!

[NewStew]

The signage is deplorable and doesnt direct path users to take the detour that they suggest on their map... Hopeless from the MRD. To add insult to injury (or actually injury to insult really) I had an off due to having to take a very tight corner on the skinnier paths due to the PTA path closures on the other side in East Perth coming around to go under Windan bridge, my fault (strayed too close to the edge of the path) but in my indignation I blame MTD and PTA!

[wellington_street]

The signage is deplorable and doesnt direct path users to take the detour that they suggest on their map... Hopeless from the MRD. To add insult to injury (or actually injury to insult really) I had an off due to having to take a very tight corner on the skinnier paths due to the PTA path closures on the other side in East Perth coming around to go under Windan bridge, my fault (strayed too close to the edge of the path) but in my indignation I blame MTD and PTA!

If that is the 120 degree turn on the steep downhill im not surprised. Its nasty if youre not expecting it.

Question is now - did the detour change thanks to complaints in recent days or is just a balls up?

[matthecat]

So yesterday afternoon got out of town via Moore St, Wittenoom St, Brooke St, East Pde and back onto PSP near the power sub-station just before East Perth station.
I'm lucky enough to work outside "peak hours" so traffic wasn't too bad - wouldn't like to do it during peak times.
Particular brown knicks moment was where the left slip lane onto the Polly Pipe starts - bit of awareness needed there.
Also of note was the amount of stones & rubble in the bike lane (pretty thin lane it is to) - I will contact MRD and see if they can get a street sweeper out and maintain it during the next 4 weeks given the likely increase in bike use.

[1talian.steel]

I blame MTD and PTA

MTD? Maximum Tolerated Dose? Also, PTA have nothing to do with this, they have been lobbying with Main Roads to try and minimise disruption and not shut the path.

I have had a 'response' from Main Roads, someone from their "Strategy and Communications" Directorate will be in touch in the next 10 days. This 10 days is far longer than the advance notice of the roadworks.

[NewStew]

I blame MTD and PTA

MTD? Maximum Tolerated Dose? Also, PTA have nothing to do with this, they have been lobbying with Main Roads to try and minimise disruption and not shut the path.

I have had a 'response' from Main Roads, someone from their "Strategy and Communications" Directorate will be in touch in the next 10 days. This 10 days is far longer than the advance notice of the roadworks.

Maybe it was a Freudian slip of the keyboard.... the PTA is being blamed (for something that was my fault in the heat of the moment) as they had shut the proper path on the other side of the GFF at the end of Victory Terrace forcing me to use the narrow windy path that was the only available way to get to the PSP....

Tomorrow I may take my mountain bike to work and just bomb it down the steps at the end of Kensington St and avoid the mess altogether.

[softy]

Hmm no easy way,

has anyone used the east perth station overpass near the PTA sub station? You have to get off you bike but is it a big deal?

[1talian.steel]

I had a chat to Joan from Main Roads this afternoon. At that point in time, Main Roads had received four complaints regarding closing the PSP, and hence would not entertain anything apart from what they had currently done. This creates a dangerous precedent in terms of any future closures that MRD decide to implement. If you have been impacted by this closure, take a couple of minutes to lodge the online form: https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Pages/c ... dback.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[방구 똥]

This is the detour I took today.
I like taking different roads for variety, so it was ok.

[Lozzie]

I'm doing the East Perth detour. It's painful getting off your bike but doable. It's really not safe to stay on your bike on it so to those who are please stop!

[kellery82]

I actually saw, whilst driving to work this morning and exiting the Graham Farmer Freeway onto East Parade, two cyclists on mountain bikes cycle along the closure where the path used to be (looks like Main Roads have ripped it up already). I've been avoiding riding to work because of this closure, but it looks like the detour wont be too bad, so I will cycle to work next week.

[방구 똥]

I actually saw, whilst driving to work this morning and exiting the Graham Farmer Freeway onto East Parade, two cyclists on mountain bikes cycle along the closure where the path used to be (looks like Main Roads have ripped it up already). I've been avoiding riding to work because of this closure, but it looks like the detour wont be too bad, so I will cycle to work next week.

Time to get my MTB out!

[matthecat]

Time to rethink strategy.
Last night - I was running a bit late and decided to go a little less direct and come out onto East Pde via Kensington..
Traffic was banked up so no cars could turn left onto East Pde.
When I eventually did get going cars were too far left straddling the "bike lane" might have to take the scenic route along the river from now on.

[Lozzie]

Got a response to my complaint,mapologised for the inconvenience and the timing. Considering they have done the signposted East Perth detour I'm pretty happy. It sucks but thankfully it's over soon.

Was quite happy to realize that the really bumpy bit after the Windan bridge has been fixed. Was confirmed this is Main Roads doing it so credit where it's due!

[cj7hawk]

I added my complaints to the mix on their online complaint form - The detour signs were almost unworkable when I went through and I did need to guess.

[flashpixx]

saw some poor chap totally confused and almost getting run over on East parade. Clearly followed the detour signs.... that almost got him killed

[cj7hawk]

Got a response from Main Roads over my complaint - It's not a good situation, and they've really screwed up. I think Main Roads absolutely deserves criticism for this -

Good Afternoon David

Thank you for your email in relation to the temporary detour of the shared use path along the Graham Farmer Freeway between Lord St and East Parade.

This detour is necessary as we conduct pre works for future improvements to the intersection of Graham Farmer Freeway and East Parade. It was not possible to conduct these works and keep the path open without placing path users in a situation where they would be at risk of injury from the worksite or other path users. By closing the path and providing a temporary detour we are able to reduce the construction time for this work and the overall impact on path users. This decision was not taken lightly as we are aware that the path is used by a significant number of cyclists and pedestrians and was only agreed once all other options had been considered.

Prior notification of the work was placed on the route in the form of variable message signs and as soon as the detour and closure was confirmed our website was updated and an email sent via a number of significant cycling advisory groups for cascade to their members. The closure information and detour is available on our website under pedestrians and cyclists. I am aware that there have been some issues with the onsite detour signs which I understand are being rectified.

The detour that is signposted is the preferred detour and takes into consideration both cyclists and pedestrians. This detour minimises the additional travelling distance for path users and allows for cyclists to cross the railway line without needing to dismount from their bicycles. There are a number of other alternative routes which can be used and I am aware that there are a number of regular path users already utilising routes which are not the signposted detour.

The work will be completed on or before the 24th December 2015 and I will ensure that we update our website once a final completion date is known.

Many thanks for your feedback and please contact me if I can be of any further help

So I sent back the following response;

Are you serious? I can only assume you have no idea then that you're asking bicycle riders to break the law?

According to the Road Traffic Code 2000, it's completely illegal to follow the detour you signposted and provided under WA law without dismounting six times! ( Unless you choose to walk most of the way )

I think Main Roads needs to read the Road Traffic Code 2000 and understand the impact you're having on cyclists with these detours.

Here is a photograph of the Intersection you first hit following the detour to illustrate the problem.



See that red-man light telling pedestrians whether to walk or not? That's what is used to mark a marked foot crossing. You can check that in the definitions section of the Road Traffic Code 2000.

Now please read Section 214 of the Road Traffic Code 2000.

214. No riding across road on crossing

(1) Subject to subregulation (2), the rider of a bicycle shall not ride across a carriageway, or part of a carriageway, on a children’s crossing, marked foot crossing or pedestrian crossing.

Modified penalty: 1 PU

(2) The rider of a bicycle may ride across a carriageway, or part of a carriageway, on a marked foot crossing if that crossing displays bicycle crossing lights and those lights are green.


Can you please advise me if you intend to install a suitable detour for bicycles? Or will we continue having to dismount six times in order to comply with WA laws?

Seriously, there seems to be a major disconnect between Main Roads, the WA Police and the Government, and unfortunately, cyclists bear the brunt of this. I know many cyclists are happy to break the laws, but it's a serious issue when they do and it causes PR problems for all cyclists - and the way Main Roads is designing roads forces many cyclists to cross some intersections on red lights for their own safety - And there are many intersections where you have marked foot crossings in the middle of a major cycle path - Which really leads me to wonder whether Main Roads even realize the dangers and problems you're creating for cyclists with these intersections?

It is a real problem that Main Roads designs cycling infrastructure so poorly that cyclists must dismount at nearly EVERY single intersection when riding on shared paths to comply with the law and generally, we have to fight with cars who have little intention to give way to a pedestrian pushing a bicycle - And now I understand from your response why this situation has occurred and I have to say I'm very disappointed in your apparent lack of knowledge of the road traffic code -

I understand from your reponse that you've contacted a number of cycling advisory groups for provision to their members, but the biggest source of cycling news did not receive any notification and is filled with criticism of Main Roads for making this particular blockage difficult to deal with. I would appreciate it if you could add me to your list then of cycling advocacy group as an individual advocate so that I can at least have a chance to warn my fellow cyclists in future, and perhaps provide some feedback on planned things such as detours, because it's clear that you did not get such feedback from any of your existing bicycling groups contacted - not that it was their responsibility to let you know the detour was illegal for cyclists - I still believe that's a Main Roads mistake.

So yes, please do provide the extra help that I have asked for - and please provide now the information on the detour so at least I can advise other cyclists who will be using this detour - I will personally repost this information to the forums.

BTW - you may want to check the criticism Main Roads has received over this particular incident - viewtopic.php?f=18&t=87346" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Note also - a cyclist was almost killed following your confusing detour signs.. It's all in the threads.

And what did I get back?

An automatic reply with the following;

I am currenly out of the office and will return on 7th December 2015. I have limited access to emails and may not respond until then. This email has not been forwarded

I think Main Roads really screwed this one up, and it needs to be pressed or this will happen time and time again. I realize they have to improve our paths and all, but they don't seem to understand even the basics of the laws that affect cyclists and how this impacts us along with their poorly thought out plans and decisions -

David

[cj7hawk]

Just a quick note to add - This is likely to take longer so could conceivably head off into the new year - If you read through Main Roads comments, they don't actually know when this will be finished, so 24th December is "wishful thinking" - not planning - and they still haven't put an end date up yet -

When they do, the end-date will be here. https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/UsingRo ... nance.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The route isn't suitable for cyclists as it is illegal for cyclists to follow this path, unless it is on the road - Ref: Section 214 of the Road Traffic Code -



Anyone want to try claiming the lane? Might have more of an impact than Main Roads would like?

Regards
David

[NewStew]

Just a quick note to add - This is likely to take longer so could conceivably head off into the new year - If you read through Main Roads comments, they don't actually know when this will be finished, so 24th December is "wishful thinking" - not planning - and they still haven't put an end date up yet -

When they do, the end-date will be here. https://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/UsingRo ... nance.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The cynical part of my brain would suggest that the reason it was scheduled to run for under 4 weeks was that according to Main Roads policies and procedures anything less than 4 weeks is a temporary diversion whereas anything longer is a long term diversion which requires them to put in place a detour of similar or close to similar standard as they have done with the two bridge replacements in Maylands and also the installation of the new Service Stations on the freeway down south..... so maybe they scheduled it short to justify the poor detour knowing that any accidental over-run would just have to be dealt with by path users (pedestrians and cyclists).

Also personally I avoid going up East Parade and just stay on Kensington St and head down to the river, under Windan Bridge and then back that way. If it were not for the co-current work by the PTA closing part of the path at the end of Victory Terrace (forcing a off camber tight corner to be negotiated) the only issue would be riding through Claisebrook station which is crowded at times.