City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Bigfella195
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City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Bigfella195 » Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:47 pm

The City of Joondalup has a draft bike plan out for comment. Go to their website and down the bottom is a button 'Community Consultation', the plan can be found here and consultation closes end of Feb.

Personally I think it is terrible. It reads like an academic has read a whole lot of government literature and then written a document that says it would be lovely to get more people riding and we should do things to encourage people to ride more, but no real hard specifics. I get the feeling they need to have a bike plan and have whipped this up quickly but don't want to make any real commitments.

City of Wanneroo released their plan at the end of last year, which admittedly might be a little a little pie in the sky, but it very clearly details the issues faced by riders in the COW and provides quite significant detail about how and when their infrastructure should be improved to produce a cycling haven.

Alas, I continue to be frustrated by the COJs failure to seriously commit to improving cycling infrastructure.

Read it yourself, form your own opinions and make sure you let COJ know what you, as a cyclist, think.

dmwill
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby dmwill » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:22 am

Recently moved out of the the Kingsley area, but got a bit annoyed with some of the logic (or lack of) with them over the past few years.

Putting extra traffic islands along Barridale Drive (and other main roads that run through nearby suburbs) was a doozy. Essentially doubling the pinch points and making it harder for cars to overtake.

Interesting to see they used a Strava heat map, though it looks like they filtered it a bit and the mentioned that it's more so just data from confident cyclists. If anything, they should be using that data to put more on-road cycle lanes/shoulders on major roads (ie: roads that divide each suburb).

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Cycleops70
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City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:28 am

It's dreadful. Wanting to be known as a "cycling city".
But the blurb was just a perpetuation of past efforts of extending & connecting slightly wider than normal foot paths with paint on it.

It's an insult to real cycling cities.

worzel
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby worzel » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:22 am

I will have a look later but historically Joondalup cycling plans have tended to focus on recreational cycling like meandering around Lake Joondalup and not commuters. Improving the Mitchell PSP (with all the on road-off road junctions) or improving the east-west routes should be a priority IMHO but they don't like to help you leave the city :wink:

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Aushiker
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Aushiker » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:30 pm

Bigfella195 wrote:The City of Joondalup has a draft bike plan out for comment. Go to their website and down the bottom is a button 'Community Consultation', the plan can be found here and consultation closes end of Feb.
Thanks for the heads-up. It can be found at http://www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/Govern/C ... ePlan.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Andrew

citywomble
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby citywomble » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:31 am

Hi all,

As a resident of Joondalup (Woodvale)) I had high expectations of this plan, however, I confess to be underwhelmed and disappointed.

The document appears to be very repetitive and presents as a summary of what has been done in the past (that is both inconsistent and has contributed little recently) combined with what appears to be a very long winded brief covering what needs doing in the future. Much of the 45 pages appears to provide instructions to someone of what to write into a plan.

The reliance on shared paths, while commendable in some locations (and Joondalup does have some good wide arterial roads with suitable verges that provide a network of shared paths) it fails in those areas of suburbs away from the main road 'grid'. The adaption (traffic calming in accordance with Main Roads and Austroads guidelines) does little to assist or promote cycling and in some ways can discourage cycling as relatively safe streets have been compromised with medians and conflicting pinch points.

An example would be Trailwood Drive (why was this not listed with the others). Prior to calming it was far too fast, however, it was used by most of the cyclists travelling East from the train station and Whitfords shared path. Post treatment there has been some speed reduction BUT, regrettably the majority of cyclists now ride along the narrow and unsuitable footpath east to rejoin the paths at Timbercrest Drive. From cycling with priority along the road they now conflict with every crossover and side street. The only good news here is that the missing shared path link, from Kingsley Drive to the underpass near Timbercrest along Whitfords Ave, that makes cyclists ride Trailwood, appears to be included in the appendix.

The carriageway widths, where there are medians and kerbed islands are inconsistent, with some within the critical AVOID (unsafe for passing) width while others are wide enough to allow passing and others are narrow enough to prevent passing. This lack of consistency is bound to confuse cyclists and drivers.

As long as routes are provided by shared paths, which perpetuate division, and unless bike routes include local streets, which encourages inclusion, it is how to see how novice and potential new cyclists can be encouraged to ride on the roads between their homes and the arterial routes.

Finally, most/many of the bike lanes that are provided are not legal bike lanes and are far from attractive. The problem here is that drivers may expect cyclist to stay in the 'bike lane' while experienced cyclists may elect not to as they relegate cyclists to a less safe road riding position. I would, however, commend the bike (shared) bypass paths around some roundabouts, for less experienced riders, although by terminating the lanes into those paths that disadvantage the experienced riders who would seek to maintain momentum and priority across the intersecting arms.

From my perspective, in Woodvale and adjacent suburbs, I feel there is little that will improve things and some 'improvements' to fear. I hope that I am wrong.

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby worzel » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:22 am

citywomble wrote:Finally, most/many of the bike lanes that are provided are not legal bike lanes and are far from attractive. The problem here is that drivers may expect cyclist to stay in the 'bike lane' while experienced cyclists may elect not to as they relegate cyclists to a less safe road riding position. I would, however, commend the bike (shared) bypass paths around some roundabouts, for less experienced riders, although by terminating the lanes into those paths that disadvantage the experienced riders who would seek to maintain momentum and priority across the intersecting arms.
When I ride down the coast through the newly modified sections between Mullaloo and Hillarys I always shake my head. I am sure someone was well-meaning when they directed the shoulder / cycle path on to the pavement around the new roundabouts to help separate bikes from cars. But anyone who rides a road bike / or bothered to consult would have realised it would just force the majority of riders into the main part of the road. Besides the better "flow" that gives, the merest of kerbs is not practical on skinny wheels.

Bigfella195
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Bigfella195 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:24 am

Ah the coast ride in Joondalup, this is a wonderful route for riding and so many cyclists use it, however COJ seem to not fully understand this. I know the roundabouts you are talking about Worzel. I just don't get the thinking with the pavement around roundabouts. If it is a 3 way roundabout and cyclists are able to ride through without traffic entering from their left, why do they not allow the cycle lane to continue? If they are worried about our safety, sure put in a seperation curb, but why do we have to ride up a concrete ramp onto a concrete path, why can't the cycle path continue but be separated by curbing in this instance, surely it would be cheaper?

I also had quite an email conversation with the Mayor when COJ decided to make riding past Mullaloo Beach, on the road, treachorous by narrowing the road to add extensive islands without any consideration to the large number of cyclists who use this route. The Mayor's response was for cyclists to use the coastal cycle path. When I explained that large numbers of pedestrians and fast moving cyclists are not a good idea, he suggested that high speed cyclists should be using Marmion Ave. Of course Marmion Ave is such a great place to ride a bike, filled with streams of 80kmh traffic and a shoulder for north bound cyclists only, not sure how he thought it would be safe to get back again or vice versa. I would like to see the Mayor ride along there on a busy morning.

It's not all bad, I remain happy with the new shoulder on Ocean Reef Road, East of the Ocean Reef Marina, this has been a big improvement and the majority of the route has good shoulders for riding. But I am perplexed as to why the extension of the coast road by developers to join up with Burns Beach was allowed to be done without a shoulder for cyclists. Surely we should have reached a time where all new significant roads should be built with cycle shoulders as a simple matter of standard policy.

I am strongly of the belief that there needs to be a seminar for road planners which explains to them the needs of cyclists, particularly those of us with thin wheels and the issues we face when trying to safely ride from A to B, whether this be on a road or a cycle path. Perhaps an annual road planners bike ride could be an idea?

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Thoglette
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Thoglette » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:46 am

Bigfella195 wrote:I am strongly of the belief that there needs to be a seminar for road planners which explains to them the needs of cyclists, particularly those of us with thin wheels and the issues we face when trying to safely ride from A to B, whether this be on a road or a cycle path.
Agreed. Some councils have staff and/or councillors who "get it". Some do not.

The big love in organised by DoT April last was particularly effective in a) getting constructive messages across and b) getting WAGLA people talking to DoT to PTA to MRD people.
Bigfella195 wrote:Perhaps an annual road planners bike ride could be an idea?
That's not a bad one - the big problem with an annual anything is funding and this could be done on a shoe string. It's the sort of thing West Cycle should be doing but doesn't.
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dmwill
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby dmwill » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:08 am

worzel wrote:When I ride down the coast through the newly modified sections between Mullaloo and Hillarys I always shake my head. I am sure someone was well-meaning when they directed the shoulder / cycle path on to the pavement around the new roundabouts to help separate bikes from cars. But anyone who rides a road bike / or bothered to consult would have realised it would just force the majority of riders into the main part of the road. Besides the better "flow" that gives, the merest of kerbs is not practical on skinny wheels.
Hodges/Ocean Roof roundabout.

If I'm holding a good speed and the entry to the roundabout is clear, I'm certainly not going to slow down to make that sharp 90 degree turn onto the path.
Image

citywomble
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby citywomble » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:56 pm

Sadly, as the Hodges/Ocean Reef roundabout shows, Main Roads WA still don't have a clue of cyclists needs, or how they should apply their regulatory lines and signs.

The bike lanes are bounded by a solid barrier line which vehicles (including bicycles) are not supposed to cross and, if they do, must give way to the road being entered.

At the very least these should be broken, so that motorists will expect cyclists to join the main lane or, even better, should terminate earlier which enable a zip merge. Currently the solid line encourages motorists to believe cyclists should not rejoin 'their' road.

When a bypass is provided it should be aligned to the bike flow and, especially where it is not, the on road alternative should have some form of affirmation that cyclists may continue to ride on road.

Properly done the northbound bypass should work well (providing it does not mix it with pedestrians) but why should a fast bike rider be expected to come off onto a bypass that is also part of the footpath network and gives way at each intersecting arm. It may be OK for mums and dads with the kids, but no good for the experienced road riders.

Bigfella195
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Bigfella195 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:53 pm

Hopefully, fellow forum members, you are taking the opportunity to pass some of these comments on to COJ as suggestions about the sort of commitments they should be making within their cycle plan.

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Cycleops70 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:54 pm

Bigfella195 wrote:Hopefully, fellow forum members, you are taking the opportunity to pass some of these comments on to COJ as suggestions about the sort of commitments they should be making within their cycle plan.
Done, and done.

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AlexHuggs
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby AlexHuggs » Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:18 pm

dmwill wrote:
worzel wrote:When I ride down the coast through the newly modified sections between Mullaloo and Hillarys I always shake my head. I am sure someone was well-meaning when they directed the shoulder / cycle path on to the pavement around the new roundabouts to help separate bikes from cars. But anyone who rides a road bike / or bothered to consult would have realised it would just force the majority of riders into the main part of the road. Besides the better "flow" that gives, the merest of kerbs is not practical on skinny wheels.
Hodges/Ocean Roof roundabout.

If I'm holding a good speed and the entry to the roundabout is clear, I'm certainly not going to slow down to make that sharp 90 degree turn onto the path.
Image
Holy C*** is that meant to be a bike diversion on the left? I feel privileged being in the City of Swan. There's huge room for improvement but at least they've put some common sense thought into these things. (Not that I'd use them if I was on a roadie.)

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby hiflange » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:55 am

Until the planners are riding to work we can expect more of the same.

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby wellington_street » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:34 am

CoJ are lookoling at changes to the coast road south of Hillarys. If youre making a submission to the bike plan its probably a good idea to emphasise what we need south of Hillarys and hopefully show there is public support for something other than the usual car-centric rubbish.

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Aushiker » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:49 pm

wellington_street wrote:CoJ are lookoling at changes to the coast road south of Hillarys. If youre making a submission to the bike plan its probably a good idea to emphasise what we need south of Hillarys and hopefully show there is public support for something other than the usual car-centric rubbish.
Didn't they do this area up within the last 12 months?

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby wellington_street » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:36 am

It was resurfaced in the last 12 months - a massive wasted opportunity.

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby rolandp » Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:12 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Bigfella195 wrote:The City of Joondalup has a draft bike plan out for comment. Go to their website and down the bottom is a button 'Community Consultation', the plan can be found here and consultation closes end of Feb.
Thanks for the heads-up. It can be found at http://www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/Govern/C ... ePlan.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Andrew
Bump for this one. It closes tomorrow -Monday 29th Feb 2016

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Thoglette » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:49 pm

rolandp wrote:Bump for this one. It closes tomorrow -Monday 29th Feb 2016
Done. I tried to be encouraging (in terms of doing the right reading, talking to the right people and re-writing it completely), but it's a bit of a roasting :shock:
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Sweeper59 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:40 am

wellington_street wrote:It was resurfaced in the last 12 months - a massive wasted opportunity.
As a former traffic engineer at a local council, I got very frustrated with council's attitude towards cyclists and cycling infrastructure. It seems they view planning for cyclists as a necessary evil, and are happy to move on once they tick that box. Our council had local and regional bike plans (because they are required to do so), but never provided any funding towards infrastructure. The most recent draft Bike Plans were prepared by Council's planners, but despite receiving plenty of input from cyclists and residents, the Bike Plan was finalised without any amendments. But, I guess it doesn't really matter if the Bike Plan sits on a shelf somewhere in Council and never receives and funding.
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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby Bigfella195 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:29 am

The sad thing is Sweeper 59, COJ appears to be another council that has a similar attitude towards its bike plans. The last one was given more thought than the newest incarnation and had some very good ideas, but for the most part never got the funding and, as you suggest, gathered dust.

Perhaps we need a COJ cyclists group that lobbies for action and maybe run a candidate or two at the next local election. This way funding might go to things that are more useful than trees in the middle of narrow secondary roads and colourful poles at every road entrance to COJ.

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Re: City of Joondalup Draft Bike Plan

Postby worzel » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:25 pm

CoJ is due to consider the new plan at this month's meeting. Judging by the agenda / briefing note published on their website (http://www.joondalup.wa.gov.au/files/co ... 12_BRF.pdf) it looks like they are largely failing to budge on community feedback, other than recognising a few maintenance requirements.

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