WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

cj7hawk
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WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Fri May 20, 2016 1:57 pm

Hi All,

Some important information here for anyone hit by a car. DO NOT USE THE ONLINE REPORTING FACILITY.

Apparently, there is a problem with it, and unless there was serious injury, the police WILL NOT INVESTIGATE. clicking on the HIT AND RUN field does nothing, as apparently there are issues with the logging system at the moment. If it is a HIT AND RUN, you must force the local police station to take the report, and to take note that the driver refused to provide information. Just keep on escalating until they agree to take a report at the station.

These reports will be ignored unless they are taken at the station.

I just found out that my own incident was ignored entirely, because there was a lack of serious injury... ( Injured, just not admitted ).

The fact that it was a hit-and-run means nothing. The fact that several road traffic laws were broken means nothing. Or at least, this is the case when you submit an online report. So now I need to call the SCVU and ask what's going on, and why motorists who drive dangerously are being let off without even a warning as long as it's only a cyclist that is run down :( Until they do this, I can't even request details of the other driver so that I can issue them a demand for the equipment they damaged when they hit me.

I'm kind of disappointed that I need to chase them up and demand an investigation just so I can request the people who ran me down to pay for the things they broke.

David.

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tallywhacker
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby tallywhacker » Fri May 20, 2016 2:36 pm

there is nothing wrong with the reporting system, I've used it for 2 of my hit and runs. It is just that there are a couple of main criteria that an incident has to fulfill before the police will even consider looking into it. Broken bones (number one) or other major injuries (ie cuts that require stitching). Anything that comes across an investigating officers desk is looked at according to these criteria and then presented to the supervising officer. Anything without any of these don't make it that far. I know this from quite a few discussions with the officer investigating my most recent incident.

DG1984
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby DG1984 » Fri May 20, 2016 3:01 pm

Why should there need to be an injury for the police to take it seriously?

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tallywhacker
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby tallywhacker » Fri May 20, 2016 3:14 pm

I don't think its a matter of them not taking it seriously its just that there are not enough officers to investigate all the reports so they set the criteria as to what they will investigate. The backlog was a couple of months when I spoke to them about my incident

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby foz » Fri May 20, 2016 4:07 pm

Hi cj7hawk,
The last time I was hit, got carted off in Ambulance, police didn't come, no problem, it was my responsibility to report it.
Because of the injuries sustained ..
The person on P plates that went through the red light and hit me , person stopped, my witness, training buddy, took all the particulars.ie car rego, name..
I then ,had to get a quote for repairing my 2 week old custom frame(waited 3 months for build) got 3 quotes..write off..
Presented person with the bill, by post, they refused to do anything about it.All I needed was car insurance company name.
Went to the Court house, took out a summons, had it served, within 30 minutes , they called and gave me the information needed..the driver of car did.
It was a big bill.
Then, two weeks later had to take bike to RAC..to be assessed ..Insurance person admit-tingly knew little about bikes..just showed him what was what .had all receipts..

All I needed was a Police report number..which I had from reporting it..

While I am rabbiting on..the short version of rest of story..
Driver pleaded not guilty..we turned up to Court to give evidence..was spotted by driver, driver changed plea to guilty.
Because driver was under 18..we could not go into court or appeal against court decision ..
All driver had to do was a defensive driving course, no loss of licence or demerit points..

Four years later, it was finally finished...to long a story to go through..

cj7hawk
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Fri May 20, 2016 9:20 pm

I will add that the advice I received came from WA Police helping me with my claim. This is NOT a criticism of the WA Police specifically. Something has their hands tied on this one, hence the advice they gave me. If the reports are logged at a police station, they will be taken seriously.

This post is more of a notice of issues they are currently having - And has to do with serious problems with the online logging system.

cj7hawk
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:22 pm

An update

This has been suggested, not confirmed. It comes from another WA department on this topic - If injuries are covered by ICWA, and the other party has submitted a crash report, no matter what is says, then no further action will be taken by WA police. This includes when there's clear and unambiguous allegations that one of the parties has committed criminal offences, police will refuse to even take the complaint, let alone investigate it. This is, apparently, on instruction.

On the topic of damage to personal property? The WA police feel that people should insure their own property.

Of course, with bicycles that's not practical for most of us, any for many of us, we're excluded from such by even most bicycle insurance policies. I'm still waiting to find out what else can be done in cases like this, so cyclists are not left out-of-pocket.

None of this addresses police inaction on safety issues, but I don't think that particular aspect comes as a surprise to anyone on the forum -

Regards
David.

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby Aushiker » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:34 pm

cj7hawk wrote:On the topic of damage to personal property? The WA police feel that people should insure their own property.

Of course, with bicycles that's not practical for most of us, any for many of us, we're excluded from such by even most bicycle insurance policies. I'm still waiting to find out what else can be done in cases like this, so cyclists are not left out-of-pocket.
That is not my experience. My bicycles are insured for in-use as part of my household contents policy which BTW is a competitively priced policy. They are however not covered for racing as I don't race, however that option is out there should I wish to take it up. Simple matter of research can identify a number of insurance companies whose policies will cover bicycles.

cj7hawk
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:03 pm

Aushiker wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:On the topic of damage to personal property? The WA police feel that people should insure their own property.

Of course, with bicycles that's not practical for most of us, any for many of us, we're excluded from such by even most bicycle insurance policies. I'm still waiting to find out what else can be done in cases like this, so cyclists are not left out-of-pocket.
That is not my experience. My bicycles are insured for in-use as part of my household contents policy which BTW is a competitively priced policy. They are however not covered for racing as I don't race, however that option is out there should I wish to take it up. Simple matter of research can identify a number of insurance companies whose policies will cover bicycles.
It's a little more complicated with power assist pedal cycles. Many insurance companies have specific wording which excludes them. That's for both petrol and electric. I spent a couple of months looking, and eventually just joined BWA. It's not the ideal solution, but the price is OK and they cover me for hitting someone, even on an assisted bicycle.

Regards
David

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:35 pm

tallywhacker wrote:I don't think its a matter of them not taking it seriously its just that there are not enough officers to investigate all the reports so they set the criteria as to what they will investigate. The backlog was a couple of months when I spoke to them about my incident
And, liek it or not, as there are drivers who bend stories to their own ends, so are there riders. In the same position I suspect that I'd be allocating my resources/officers rather sparingly where there is not much of substance/injury/verifiable proof.
Unchain yourself-Ride a unicycle

cj7hawk
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Sun Jul 31, 2016 12:18 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
tallywhacker wrote:I don't think its a matter of them not taking it seriously its just that there are not enough officers to investigate all the reports so they set the criteria as to what they will investigate. The backlog was a couple of months when I spoke to them about my incident
And, liek it or not, as there are drivers who bend stories to their own ends, so are there riders. In the same position I suspect that I'd be allocating my resources/officers rather sparingly where there is not much of substance/injury/verifiable proof.
The simplified version is that the police are dropping any cases that they see a debt collection.

And generally, there's an expectation on all parties to be responsible for their own insurance.

It's not really about the backlog at all - it's just a cost saving exercise.

David

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby TipTopanga » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:51 pm

It makes sense to me, if nobody was hurt and youre just chasing a new bike it seems more of a court problem anyway. Plus the cost and hours of investigating doesnt really benefit the outcome (its only a small $$ claim in the scheme of things). They cant really do anything more than record that it happened for data collection.

On that, if you get their details and report the incident, it builds a pattern of behaviour for a certain car/driver. If something happens in the future, they will have it on record that "on xx, xx and xx, complaints were made about so and so's driving behaviour."
2013 Giant Defy, 1993 Diamondback Topanga.

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Comedian
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby Comedian » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:53 am

In QLD if you are not dead they are not interested. So basically if you can submit the report they bin it. :shock:

cj7hawk
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:22 pm

Tezla wrote:It makes sense to me, if nobody was hurt and youre just chasing a new bike it seems more of a court problem anyway. Plus the cost and hours of investigating doesnt really benefit the outcome (its only a small $$ claim in the scheme of things). They cant really do anything more than record that it happened for data collection.

On that, if you get their details and report the incident, it builds a pattern of behaviour for a certain car/driver. If something happens in the future, they will have it on record that "on xx, xx and xx, complaints were made about so and so's driving behaviour."
Except it's important to realize the police are deliberately preventing court action and they knew it -

If I could take court action, I would have - the cost to me was about $1000 - But the driver was permitted to refuse to provide their details -

It's an offence not to provide those details, but the police refused to make the owner provide them. If you can't identify the other party, no court action is possible.

The WA police position on this matter is that is what (My) insurance is for. Except we can't insure for that on bicycles.

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outnabike
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby outnabike » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:24 pm

cj7hawk wrote:An update

- If injuries are covered by ICWA, and the other party has submitted a crash report, no matter what is says, then no further action will be taken by WA police. T I'm still waiting to find out what else can be done in cases like this, so cyclists are not left out-of-pocket.

None of this addresses police inaction on safety issues, but I don't think that particular aspect comes as a surprise to anyone on the forum -

Regards
David.
Hi David, I reckon the police are abrogating their responsibility to a party, (You), that ought to be protected by law.

I mean a person causing damage unlawfully ought to have a police report at least against them or a charge if required. I imagine a shoplifter that is caught with the unpaid goods is bound for a summons aren't they?

Any one who says different,didn't see the cop show the other night, when around 6 cops caught two shoplifters and cuffed them. They had $3000-00 worth of goods outside the shop.

Still the case of an accident ,I suppose it is just that. No one hurt settle it between yourselves. I guess it is not an assault unless you can prove it.
Vivente World Randonneur complete with panniers

cj7hawk
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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:05 am

outnabike wrote: Hi David, I reckon the police are abrogating their responsibility to a party, (You), that ought to be protected by law.
It should be, but in truth, WA Police are falling apart. They have no capability to address or suppress crime, they're mostly ineffectual at protecting us, and they spend most of their time chasing little problems.

So they are trying to cut costs by ignoring crimes that only leave one person a financial victim, while concentrating their remaining efforts on stuff like people who are seriously injured by violent crime - Their goal was not to be a "Debt Collector" but they took it too far and broke the way the law is supposed to work, leaving us in a hole.

:(

Most police officers are pretty good people and will try to genuinely help, but the instructions they are under from their superiors prevents them from doing the right thing. That was the outcome of finding out why the driver didn't have to tell me who owned the vehicle that hit me and did the damage, and why police weren't allowed to tell me that information either.

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby wellington_street » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:30 pm

Have you considered trying an FOI request through DoT for their details?

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby Ant_S » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:59 pm

Hm this is a bit of a shame to hear. When I got knocked off by a woman a little while back, she did stop, however had no WA licence, vehicle registration had run out & she just hit me out of poor driving skills. I went to ED via my partner so no police or ambo & didn't need stitches or have broken bones. The damage to my bike & helmet wasn't bad (~$400) however obviously she had many reasons she couldn't contribute anything to me. So altogether I had hoped that the Police would've at least caught up with her since she shouldn't have been on the road at all and was unsafe being there really. Is there any way to follow up the Online Crash Reports?

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby nachoman » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:06 pm

Ant_S wrote: Is there any way to follow up the Online Crash Reports?
You can call the WA Police Information Release section on 9260 7777 and quote your online report number. They will tell you how long the back log is before it is loaded into the system and looked at by the State Crash Vetting Unit, three to six months back in 2014 when I dealt with them. The onus will be on you to chase it up, they are known to silently close cases without informing you of the result (or lack of).

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby cj7hawk » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:16 am

wellington_street wrote:Have you considered trying an FOI request through DoT for their details?
No, I didn't realize that was even possible. :(

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Re: WA Police will not / do not investigate hit and run with cyclists.

Postby wellington_street » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:38 am

cj7hawk wrote:
wellington_street wrote:Have you considered trying an FOI request through DoT for their details?
No, I didn't realize that was even possible. :(
Normally the DoT would be reluctant to give out personal details of other people but it might be worth a shot since you were in a crash and there's a legitimate reason for it.

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