Is Murray Street mall legal?
- ColinOldnCranky
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Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:12 pm
Unlike most paths I suspect that it may come down to "Is the mall a road related area?" It certainly was one decades ago but I suspect that if they wished to again use it as a road someone would have to go thru hoops to reinstate it's old status.
If not then maybe down to other legislation or the PCC by laws.
Anyone got the answer. Legal chapter and verse if possible.
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:33 pm
292 . Restrictions on traffic in pedestrian mall
A person shall not drive a vehicle in a pedestrian mall unless that vehicle is —
(a) a public bus; or
(b) an emergency vehicle; or
(c) a special purpose vehicle; or
(d) being used by a medical practitioner in the practice of his or her profession; or
(e) a taxi conveying a lodger to or from premises to which access is ordinarily gained from the pedestrian mall and in respect of which a hotel licence is in force under the Liquor Control Act 1988 6 ; or
(f) a vehicle used or intended to be used for picking up or setting down goods or merchandising in a pedestrian mall which is being driven during a period when such vehicles are permitted to enter the pedestrian mall as designated by road signs erected at the entrance thereto; or
(g) a vehicle in respect of which the CEO has issued approval in writing, authorising the use of the vehicle in the pedestrian mall.
Modified penalty: 1 PU
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:38 pm
I asked if they were classified as emergency vehicles.
They replied with 'special purpose vehicle'
I'm not sure how you register an unregistered vehicle as special purpose, but there you go.
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:19 pm
There is no mention of registration required in order for it to be a "special purpose vehicle" so I guess it's hard to definitively state that they are wrong.Cycleops70 wrote:I recently questioned a tweet from WA police. They posted a picture of their bicycle team riding through the mall.
I asked if they were classified as emergency vehicles.
They replied with 'special purpose vehicle'
I'm not sure how you register an unregistered vehicle as special purpose, but there you go.
I don't see unicycles in that list. However as a unicycle appears to be not a vehicle but rather a "device" I seem to be safe.
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:21 pm
I just meant how is it identified as special purpose, when there are no records.ColinOldnCranky wrote:There is no mention of registrationCycleops70 wrote:I recently questioned a tweet from WA police. They posted a picture of their bicycle team riding through the mall.
I asked if they were classified as emergency vehicles.
They replied with 'special purpose vehicle'
I'm not sure how you register an unregistered vehicle as special purpose, but there you go.
Emergency vehicles are licensed differently with the department of transport.
Surely I can't just call my bike 'special' & ride it through the mall without it being recorded somewhere as such?
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:24 pm
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Scott_C » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:30 pm
special purpose vehicle means —
(a) a vehicle being driven by a police officer on official duty or that vehicle when it is stationary at any place connected with the official duty; or ...
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:03 pm
That would appear to be the top trump!Scott_C wrote:It seems to be a special purpose vehicle as directly defined in the WA Road Traffic Code:special purpose vehicle means —
(a) a vehicle being driven by a police officer on official duty or that vehicle when it is stationary at any place connected with the official duty; or ...
I guess, even a unicycle could be special (if driven by a police officer).
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Mulger bill » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:57 pm
Unis, scooters and skates all come under the umbrella of "wheeled recreational devices", technically not subject to road rules except where specifically mentioned.
If they are in the WRD class in WA then I'm guessing that local laws would apply. Any signs at the entrances saying yea or nay?
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:30 am
Yes. In WA I can ride during daylight hours on roads that do not have a posted limit in excess of 50kph and that do not have lane markings. I am not sure if a road with a bike lane is considered to be a lane in this respect. No helmet, lighting or reflecting requirements at all.Cycleops70 wrote:I understand that a unicycle isn't classed as a bike (no helmet required), but does that mean it can't be used on he road?
States do have the occasional twist though. For example SA does require me to wear a helmet (ditto for skateboarders there). And, until recently I could legally ride on the four lane Henley Beach Road there while I was not allowed to ride on the footpath alongside of it.
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:32 am
No, it's a "wheeled recreational vehicle" with it's own privileges and obligations that it shares with skateboards.Scott_C wrote:It seems to be a special purpose vehicle as directly defined in the WA Road Traffic Code:special purpose vehicle means —
(a) a vehicle being driven by a police officer on official duty or that vehicle when it is stationary at any place connected with the official duty; or ...
EDIT: Sorry. I guess you were not directing to me but forum does not allow me to delete.
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby wellington_street » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:27 pm
This is my problem with signage that allows "authorised vehicles" an exemption from parking, passage or turns. Who authorises a vehicle to be authorised? What proof does one need to carry to be an authorised vehicle? The law is not clear at all, and the practical implications for construction vehicles, as an example, is that it is completely unworkable.Cycleops70 wrote:I just meant how is it identified as special purpose, when there are no records.ColinOldnCranky wrote:There is no mention of registrationCycleops70 wrote:I recently questioned a tweet from WA police. They posted a picture of their bicycle team riding through the mall.
I asked if they were classified as emergency vehicles.
They replied with 'special purpose vehicle'
I'm not sure how you register an unregistered vehicle as special purpose, but there you go.
Emergency vehicles are licensed differently with the department of transport.
Surely I can't just call my bike 'special' & ride it through the mall without it being recorded somewhere as such?
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby wellington_street » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:32 pm
Specifically via Clause 9 [City may make a determination], Clause 16 (10) (b) [city may determination prohibiting riding a bicycle] and then the First Schedule lists a penalty of $200 for 'failure to comply with a determination'.
The City is supposed to be removing the ban on bikes in the malls but has been dragging its feet on all things cycling for the past few years. Don't see it getting any better until a change of mayor.
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby Sinner » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:50 am
Clause 2.1 states "A person shall not - (i) within a mall, an arcade or verandah of a shopping centre, ride any bicycle or wheeled recreational device".
That's quite clear!
The City did explore removing the reference to the bicycle or wheeled recreational device by publishing amendments to the Local Law, but found very little support for the amendment; and when it republished that clause also found very little opposition to it remaining. So if you didn't provide feedback, that's why nothing's happened.
The Local Law is having a wholesale change again in the next year, and I believe that the bicycle angle will be looked at again (under the current Mayor). So there is another opportunity to voice your opinion.
The Local Law does not seem to recognise the Police as "authorised persons" and so if they are cycling, they could be infringed. But who is these days? The other thing I've seen them do is cycle the wrong way, so when they get to Barrack Street, they have no signals to view!
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Re: Is Murray Street mall legal?
Postby wellington_street » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:13 pm
Can you post it here when it comes out for comment? I'm not sure anyone on here knew about the option of providing feedback on an amendment previously, although it was included as a key part of the Bike Plan (along with Trafalgar Bridge) so surely that's a fair bit of support.Sinner wrote:The City did explore removing the reference to the bicycle or wheeled recreational device by publishing amendments to the Local Law, but found very little support for the amendment; and when it republished that clause also found very little opposition to it remaining. So if you didn't provide feedback, that's why nothing's happened.
The Local Law is having a wholesale change again in the next year, and I believe that the bicycle angle will be looked at again (under the current Mayor). So there is another opportunity to voice your opinion.
Thanks for clarifying the legal aspects
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