Shared path / footpath to road - what are the rules?

[Wixxy]

Can I leave a road at any point to access a ramp on to a footpath / shared path?

Can I enter a road from any ramp off a footpath /shared path - eg. at the Marshall Rd / Malaga Drive junction (which is the left turn slip road)?

Can I cycle across a road crossing where no pedestrian lights or markings exist - eg. again at the Marshall Rd / Malaga Drive junction?

Specific question - can I legally access the new shared path from the road when travelling along Marshall Rd (from Lord St) when I get to the Beechboro Rd junction? Or is this path only designed to connect with the path on the other side which takes you down to Bennett Springs?
Going footpath to footpath (edit) - there are crossing buttons on the traffic lights but with no pedestrian lights - are these as yet to be installed? Also there's no safe refuge in between the lanes - I've been caught out stuck in the middle trying to cross.

Finally, I take it I can dismount on to the verge to use the pedestrian crossing across Reid Hwy at the Lord St junction?

Thanks, am new to cycling in WA.

[Scott_C]

Can I leave a road at any point to access a ramp on to a footpath / shared path?

Yes, provided you indicate your turn and give way to any traffic or people on the path. This is the same as entering a driveway in a vehicle.

Can I enter a road from any ramp off a footpath /shared path - eg. at the Marshall Rd / Malaga Drive junction (which is the left turn slip road)?

Yes, provided you indicate your turn, move with traffic (if it is the left turn slip road you need to turn left) and give way to any traffic on the road. This is the same as entering the road from a driveway in a vehicle.

Can I cycle across a road crossing where no pedestrian lights or markings exist - eg. again at the Marshall Rd / Malaga Drive junction?

Looking at Streetview the crossings are marked and have pedestrian lights at this intersection, which means you legally must walk your bicycle across. If the crossings are unmarked then you can legally ride your bicycle across BUT there is no clear legal requirement for traffic, including turning traffic, to give way to you (nor is there a legal requirement for you to give way to them).

Specific question - can I legally access the new shared path from the road when travelling along Marshall Rd (from Lord St) when I get to the Beechboro Rd junction? Or is this path only designed to connect with the path on the other side which takes you down to Bennett Springs? There are crossing buttons on the traffic lights but with no pedestrian lights - are these as yet to be installed? Also there's no safe refuge in between the lanes - I've been caught out stuck in the middle trying to cross.

I would ride across the junction Westbound on the road with a green light with the rest of the traffic, indicate left once I reach the middle of the intersection then point my arm at the path I am heading to and ride up onto the path. I am not aware of any laws making this illegal but aren't 100% sure. I do the same thing entering a path at the Mounts Bay Rd end of Victoria Ave in the city where I enter the intersection in a road lane and then exit onto a path within the intersection.

Finally, I take it I can dismount on to the verge to use the pedestrian crossing across Reid Hwy at the Lord St junction?

Again, you need to indicate to enter the verge (leave the road) but it is legally OK. Looking at Streetview, personally, I would probably stay on the road at this intersection as there is a dashed continuation of the shoulder up to the intersection and if I am riding as a road vehicle I prefer to stay in that mode rather than swapping between road vehicle and pavement/pedestrian mode. This is up to your personal preference and the level of traffic at the time you are riding though, either option is legally available to you and you will be the best judge of what is comfortable to you.

DIsclaimer: I am not a lawyer, responses are based upon my understanding of WA road traffic law and may be incorrect.

[Wixxy]

Thanks for your reply.

Just to qualify, on the Beechboro Rd intersection I have entered the path going westbound a couple of times but it felt odd doing it.

My biggest concern is traveling east bound on Marshall up to the lights as no shoulder exists - maybe half a metre and any slip your in the sand. What I've done is use the path up to the pedestrian lights at Hepburn Ave, cross by foot and enter the road on the slip road opposite to carry on Marshall.

On Reid Hwy, it's only a right turn I'd consider using the pedestrian crossing. I'd stay on the road to go straight across.

[wellington_street]

Hi Wixxy - I agree with Scott_C, if that makes you feel any better.

The paths have not really been designed to accommodate cyclists transitioning between road and path which is why it feels a bit off but it is definitely legal.

Heading eastbound, I would probably use the path all the way and then when the lights suit I would either walk or ride across Marshall Rd (west leg) to position myself in front of this traffic, then proceed on the green. That seems to me to have less conflicts than entering at Hepburn as the shoulder starts sooner. You will need to watch left/right turners from Beechboro carefully, so maybe observe the light cycles a few times until you can anticipate what phase will come next.

[Wixxy]

Hi Wixxy - I agree with Scott_C, if that makes you feel any better.

The paths have not really been designed to accommodate cyclists transitioning between road and path which is why it feels a bit off but it is definitely legal.

Heading eastbound, I would probably use the path all the way and then when the lights suit I would either walk or ride across Marshall Rd (west leg) to position myself in front of this traffic, then proceed on the green. That seems to me to have less conflicts than entering at Hepburn as the shoulder starts sooner. You will need to watch left/right turners from Beechboro carefully, so maybe observe the light cycles a few times until you can anticipate what phase will come next.

Hi Wellington,

Eastbound, are you meaning crossing just before the junction on Marshall?

What do you think of joining the tail end of northbound Beechboro traffic on green from the path once all left turning traffic has gone to then turn right? I tried that once and made it. It's awkward as the path is ahead of the Beechboro junction.

Who would I report the incomplete pedestrian crossing to, Mains WA? I may detour to Reid Hwy for my journey home.

Finally! Is the shoulder on Marshall classed as a sealed cycle shoulder between Lord St and Beechboro or does it just seem so. The reason am asking it needs some overhanging branches clearing if it is. I can't see that being done if it isn't official.

[Bunged Knee]

I`m not from WA but why not have a read of bicycle rules,safety/standard from Dept of Transport.

[Graeme H]

Going footpath to footpath (edit) - there are crossing buttons on the traffic lights but with no pedestrian lights - are these as yet to be installed?

Who would I report the incomplete pedestrian crossing to, Mains WA?

Hi Wixxy,

It's not incomplete; this is how our lights are set up where not many pedestrians are expected to use the path.

There's no dedicated pedestrian phase in this arrangement. Pedestrians cross on the green light and are supposed to get right of way over turning traffic (ie you walk before the cars go through, not after). The buttons are provided so that peds can trigger a light change when there's no traffic heading their way, and may provide a longer green than normal to allow enough time to walk across.

In general though, yes, Main Roads WA is the correct authority for reporting problems with traffic lights.

Graeme.

[wellington_street]

Hi Wellington,

Eastbound, are you meaning crossing just before the junction on Marshall?

What do you think of joining the tail end of northbound Beechboro traffic on green from the path once all left turning traffic has gone to then turn right? I tried that once and made it. It's awkward as the path is ahead of the Beechboro junction.

That might actually be a better idea, if you can time it. It's awkward but as long as you have good visibility then it can be done.

What I had in mind though was following the red dots in the picture below (wait for safe gap first), then move as Marshall Rd gets the green.


If you are going to email or write to the City of Swan, you should also ask about getting a cut-through in the median island where the green box is, as that would make it a lot easier to make this move.

Who would I report the incomplete pedestrian crossing to, Mains WA? I may detour to Reid Hwy for my journey home.

City of Swan owns these roads - they would need to take the complaint to Main Roads.
There is a significant cost involved in upgrading some of these signals to have the walk/don't walk lights which may be why it wasn't included in the latest works.

Finally! Is the shoulder on Marshall classed as a sealed cycle shoulder between Lord St and Beechboro or does it just seem so. The reason am asking it needs some overhanging branches clearing if it is. I can't see that being done if it isn't official.

[/quote][/quote]
Just report it to the City of Swan via email - explain you use it as a cyclist and need the branches clear. They should deal with it within a few weeks, at least.

[Scott_C]

I`m not from WA but why not have a read of bicycle rules,safety/standard from Dept of Transport.

Unfortunately, as is to be expected from DoT, the brochure is incorrect and says cyclists are allowed to overtake to the left of stopped vehicles that are indicating left, which is nominally the case everywhere else in Australia but not the case in WA where it is illegal to ride past or overtake to the left of a vehicle signalling left whether or not it is moving.

The brochure also includes a disclaimer saying it is your fault if you get bad advice from the brochure.

Finally, the brochure doesn't mention anything about the illegality of riding on pedestrian crossings or mention that if the crossing isn't marked it is legal to ride across but you have no right of way so the brochure is incomplete and can lead to cyclists breaking laws that they don't know about because they weren't deemed important enough to go in the brochure.

As someone from outside of WA it isn't expected that you would know that DoT is incompetent, verging on negligent, in their treatment of cycling but unfortunately that is the way it is in WA.

[Wixxy]

Hi Wellington,

Eastbound, are you meaning crossing just before the junction on Marshall?

What do you think of joining the tail end of northbound Beechboro traffic on green from the path once all left turning traffic has gone to then turn right? I tried that once and made it. It's awkward as the path is ahead of the Beechboro junction.

That might actually be a better idea, if you can time it. It's awkward but as long as you have good visibility then it can be done.

What I had in mind though was following the red dots in the picture below (wait for safe gap first), then move as Marshall Rd gets the green.


If you are going to email or write to the City of Swan, you should also ask about getting a cut-through in the median island where the green box is, as that would make it a lot easier to make this move.

I see your saying do it as a sort of hook turn? Is that feasible as your positioning yourself in front of the lights on the eastbound junction. I've never done a hook turn and only just found out you do them on the left lane of a roundabout - is a controlled / uncontrolled junction the same?

[Wixxy]

Hi Wixxy,

It's not incomplete; this is how our lights are set up where not many pedestrians are expected to use the path.

There's no dedicated pedestrian phase in this arrangement. Pedestrians cross on the green light and are supposed to get right of way over turning traffic (ie you walk before the cars go through, not after). The buttons are provided so that peds can trigger a light change when there's no traffic heading their way, and may provide a longer green than normal to allow enough time to walk across.

In general though, yes, Main Roads WA is the correct authority for reporting problems with traffic lights.

Graeme.[/quote]

Hi Graeme,

Me being stupid, is that green on west or east bound traffic when I cross?

When is right time to push the button to get it's benefit, is it while either of the Beechboro junctions are letting traffic through?

[wellington_street]

I see your saying do it as a sort of hook turn? Is that feasible as your positioning yourself in front of the lights on the eastbound junction. I've never done a hook turn and only just found out you do them on the left lane of a roundabout - is a controlled / uncontrolled junction the same?

Yes, this is essentially a hook turn and these are legal in WA (and most states) at any junction.
Because hook turns are uncommon, motorists may not expect you to do it, so I would suggest make eye contact with the driver as you pull up in front of them to ensure they have seen you.

[Wixxy]

http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFil ... elines.pdf


I read this and understand more now on this type of crossing - it talks of a circular light at such stops, is this on all uncontrolled crossings or do some omit a light. It actually has a light on one side that should be facing southbound traffic not the pedestrian ie all three mounted lights facing the same way. This confused me no end in trying to guess when to cross and wonder why there was no light if crossing from the other side.

[Wixxy]

I see your saying do it as a sort of hook turn? Is that feasible as your positioning yourself in front of the lights on the eastbound junction. I've never done a hook turn and only just found out you do them on the left lane of a roundabout - is a controlled / uncontrolled junction the same?

Yes, this is essentially a hook turn and these are legal in WA (and most states) at any junction.
Because hook turns are uncommon, motorists may not expect you to do it, so I would suggest make eye contact with the driver as you pull up in front of them to ensure they have seen you.

Would you not have to do this with the northbound lights on green and merge with traffic or your "jumping" the lights even though the path is in front of the junction it's also within the intersection which is why it's not clear-cut to me.

[wellington_street]

Would you not have to do this with the northbound lights on green and merge with traffic or your "jumping" the lights even though the path is in front of the junction it's also within the intersection which is why it's not clear-cut to me.

None of the signals apply to vehicles (i.e. bicycles) leaving the path, so you can go whenever you want. However I would want to wait until there is a safe gap, which is most likely at the tail end of when Beechboro Road has the green.