Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

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exadios
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Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby exadios » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:45 pm


crazioldjane
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby crazioldjane » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:13 pm

The old man should be charged for inproper use of a warning device.... the cyclist she be charged with assault if he hit the old ladies arm intentionally and both of them should go home... stand if front of a mirror ...and have a really good look at themselves :wink:
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby 방구 똥 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:34 pm

Oh no, terrible!

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Mububban
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby Mububban » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:24 pm

Old couple don't know the road rules. Cyclist should absolutely not have struck the car/passenger. Crazioldjane has it right, they were both idiots, both of you pull your heads in.

Not a good look though. "Angry cyclist ATTACKS little old lady!!!!" I'm sure we'll hear more of this from the bike haters...
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby NASHIE » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:54 pm

Agree with above, but will add that a little more indicating that your intending to turn right (i guess thats why they are in the right lane) may have prevented the beep.

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby alh9a5 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:24 pm

Peanuts all round in that one, though the typical "get outta my way" attitude we have come to know and expect from WA's finest...waited about millisecond before jumping on the horn.

Incidents like these really illustrate that motorists have no idea about cycling and why we do what we do. I would have taken the lane too in that situation with all the parked cars and the potential dooring zone on the left, though there was definitely a need to indicate they were intending on turning right ahead.

Very alarming that the cyclists opted to click out and stop in the middle of the road, death wish much :oops:

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outnabike
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby outnabike » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:54 pm

Not right to hit the ladies hand which should not be protruding from the car. What 70 year old suddenly has their hand out the car if not wildly gesticulating?
The cyclist might have been going to tap the car in retaliation , who knows?

Not right to honk at two bikes doing nothing wrong.
The driver might have already close passed the cyclist earlier, or due to an assumed misdemeanor earlier in the motorists eyes.

Right that the police have not charged any one so far. :)
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FXST01
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby FXST01 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:38 pm

Arms and hands inside vehicles at all times.

I noticed one rider almost made the other crash when he switched sides and abruptly stopped.
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby John Lewis » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:29 am

Looked to me like the cyclists wheels touched hence the click out.

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby cj7hawk » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:07 am

Some thoughts.

1. The cyclists had reason to be fearful for their lives. If a car behind is beeping you, they know they can't do that - so you know they are hostile - you just don't know how hostile. They are also armed and have demonstrated themselves to be dangerous. It's probably not quite grounds to assume they are going to deliberately kill you, but you do have reason to believe they may place your life in danger. Deliberately.

I thought they remained reasonably calm with that in mind.

2. If a car overtakes by a meter, it's not possible to hit it with your hand. Unless you're Michael Jordan.

3. Slapping a car is a very good way of alerting the driver that they are dangerously close to you. It should do no damage to the car. ( many people are kind of funny about people touching their cars though... and I mean funny as in they have mental problems funny. ) - The car pushed past the cyclist and they slapped it to alert the driver they were in danger. Seems reasonable enough. It sounded like a slap on metal to me - A slap on a window wouldn't have made that sound.

4. Someone shouldn't have their arms outside the car. Under the circumstances, if you need to slap the car and you accidentally get someone who has their arms outside the vehicle, it's not assault. Assault has to have intent. If they collided with another car and it amputated her arm, would she say it was assault?

5. I didn't hear anything in the video to substantiate the level of claimed pain and assault. "Oh you Bast**d..." isn't the sort of thing someone says when they experience a sharp pain. What I think happened is she wasn't struck at all, but her husband made the accusation and she went along with it.

6. Given the language from the old lady, I think we've established the sort of people who were in the car. Just because people are old doesn't mean they are good people.

7. Who rests their arm on the sharp edge of a window? The sill sure, but not the window. Sounds dodgy to me. The story doesn't add up.

So I see nothing here to blame on the cyclists. It seems it's a good example of how road users feel entitled to abuse us. More so, that they even feel that the law is on their side when they do try to push us off the road for being in their way.

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Tim
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby Tim » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:46 am

Pith poor roadcraft from the cyclists and the driver and add to that an unskilled wobbly dismount.
Bunch of plonkers, all of them.

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby XIX » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:38 pm

cj7hawk wrote:Some thoughts.

1. The cyclists had reason to be fearful for their lives. If a car behind is beeping you, they know they can't do that - so you know they are hostile - you just don't know how hostile. They are also armed and have demonstrated themselves to be dangerous. It's probably not quite grounds to assume they are going to deliberately kill you, but you do have reason to believe they may place your life in danger. Deliberately.

I thought they remained reasonably calm with that in mind.

2. If a car overtakes by a meter, it's not possible to hit it with your hand. Unless you're Michael Jordan.

3. Slapping a car is a very good way of alerting the driver that they are dangerously close to you. It should do no damage to the car. ( many people are kind of funny about people touching their cars though... and I mean funny as in they have mental problems funny. ) - The car pushed past the cyclist and they slapped it to alert the driver they were in danger. Seems reasonable enough. It sounded like a slap on metal to me - A slap on a window wouldn't have made that sound.

4. Someone shouldn't have their arms outside the car. Under the circumstances, if you need to slap the car and you accidentally get someone who has their arms outside the vehicle, it's not assault. Assault has to have intent. If they collided with another car and it amputated her arm, would she say it was assault?

5. I didn't hear anything in the video to substantiate the level of claimed pain and assault. "Oh you Bast**d..." isn't the sort of thing someone says when they experience a sharp pain. What I think happened is she wasn't struck at all, but her husband made the accusation and she went along with it.

6. Given the language from the old lady, I think we've established the sort of people who were in the car. Just because people are old doesn't mean they are good people.

7. Who rests their arm on the sharp edge of a window? The sill sure, but not the window. Sounds dodgy to me. The story doesn't add up.

So I see nothing here to blame on the cyclists. It seems it's a good example of how road users feel entitled to abuse us. More so, that they even feel that the law is on their side when they do try to push us off the road for being in their way.
I have to say I agree with pretty much all of this.

The guy has come up behind them at speed, while they are at a reasonable pace for the intersection and with fairly decent traffic around them. Surely the police should be speaking to the couple as well as this would be bordering on reckless driving.

Probably not a great idea hitting the car (I dont believe they have hit her), as in this case the car had passed and there was no longer any danger. But I will admit to touching up the odd wing mirror in my time.

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby Derny Driver » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:42 pm

XIX wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:Some thoughts.

1. The cyclists had reason to be fearful for their lives. If a car behind is beeping you, they know they can't do that - so you know they are hostile - you just don't know how hostile. They are also armed and have demonstrated themselves to be dangerous. It's probably not quite grounds to assume they are going to deliberately kill you, but you do have reason to believe they may place your life in danger. Deliberately.

I thought they remained reasonably calm with that in mind.

2. If a car overtakes by a meter, it's not possible to hit it with your hand. Unless you're Michael Jordan.

3. Slapping a car is a very good way of alerting the driver that they are dangerously close to you. It should do no damage to the car. ( many people are kind of funny about people touching their cars though... and I mean funny as in they have mental problems funny. ) - The car pushed past the cyclist and they slapped it to alert the driver they were in danger. Seems reasonable enough. It sounded like a slap on metal to me - A slap on a window wouldn't have made that sound.

4. Someone shouldn't have their arms outside the car. Under the circumstances, if you need to slap the car and you accidentally get someone who has their arms outside the vehicle, it's not assault. Assault has to have intent. If they collided with another car and it amputated her arm, would she say it was assault?

5. I didn't hear anything in the video to substantiate the level of claimed pain and assault. "Oh you Bast**d..." isn't the sort of thing someone says when they experience a sharp pain. What I think happened is she wasn't struck at all, but her husband made the accusation and she went along with it.

6. Given the language from the old lady, I think we've established the sort of people who were in the car. Just because people are old doesn't mean they are good people.

7. Who rests their arm on the sharp edge of a window? The sill sure, but not the window. Sounds dodgy to me. The story doesn't add up.

So I see nothing here to blame on the cyclists. It seems it's a good example of how road users feel entitled to abuse us. More so, that they even feel that the law is on their side when they do try to push us off the road for being in their way.
I have to say I agree with pretty much all of this.

.
Me too

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby 방구 똥 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:17 pm

His friend has a fly12. It would be interesting to see the other side of the story!

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:58 am

As always, show me the full video, starting 60 seconds prior to the riders becoming visible.

Bet we won't see it tho'...
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:01 pm

Derny Driver wrote:
XIX wrote:
cj7hawk wrote:Some thoughts.

1. The cyclists had reason to be fearful for their lives. If a car behind is beeping you, they know they can't do that - so you know they are hostile - you just don't know how hostile. They are also armed and have demonstrated themselves to be dangerous. It's probably not quite grounds to assume they are going to deliberately kill you, but you do have reason to believe they may place your life in danger. Deliberately.

I thought they remained reasonably calm with that in mind.

2. If a car overtakes by a meter, it's not possible to hit it with your hand. Unless you're Michael Jordan.

3. Slapping a car is a very good way of alerting the driver that they are dangerously close to you. It should do no damage to the car. ( many people are kind of funny about people touching their cars though... and I mean funny as in they have mental problems funny. ) - The car pushed past the cyclist and they slapped it to alert the driver they were in danger. Seems reasonable enough. It sounded like a slap on metal to me - A slap on a window wouldn't have made that sound.

4. Someone shouldn't have their arms outside the car. Under the circumstances, if you need to slap the car and you accidentally get someone who has their arms outside the vehicle, it's not assault. Assault has to have intent. If they collided with another car and it amputated her arm, would she say it was assault?

5. I didn't hear anything in the video to substantiate the level of claimed pain and assault. "Oh you Bast**d..." isn't the sort of thing someone says when they experience a sharp pain. What I think happened is she wasn't struck at all, but her husband made the accusation and she went along with it.

6. Given the language from the old lady, I think we've established the sort of people who were in the car. Just because people are old doesn't mean they are good people.

7. Who rests their arm on the sharp edge of a window? The sill sure, but not the window. Sounds dodgy to me. The story doesn't add up.

So I see nothing here to blame on the cyclists. It seems it's a good example of how road users feel entitled to abuse us. More so, that they even feel that the law is on their side when they do try to push us off the road for being in their way.
I have to say I agree with pretty much all of this.

.
Me too
And me. The noise from the strike is inconsistent with the sound made from striking flesh. It's a knock sound. Striking flesh sounds like a slap.

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:35 pm

trailgumby wrote: And me. The noise from the strike is inconsistent with the sound made from striking flesh. It's a knock sound. Striking flesh sounds like a slap.
Mirror fold that hit an outstretched hand?
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby trailgumby » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:31 pm

Mulger bill wrote:
trailgumby wrote: And me. The noise from the strike is inconsistent with the sound made from striking flesh. It's a knock sound. Striking flesh sounds like a slap.
Mirror fold that hit an outstretched hand?
Yep, quite possible.

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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:47 pm

crazioldjane wrote:The old man should be charged for inproper use of a warning device.... the cyclist she be charged with assault if he hit the old ladies arm intentionally and both of them should go home... stand if front of a mirror ...and have a really good look at themselves :wink:
Notwithstanding a pretty poor bit of riding (I judge not as we all do so occasionally, cleats and duress can make us come a little unstuck from time to time) I think the driver and passenger have little to complain about. And I certainly would not accept that the riders did actually contact the lady. Either way the lady has some explaining to do before she is believable.

I think the driver has a cheek to make a report. About the only thing that is clear and unambiguous in the whole video is the unwarranted use of the horn intended to assert his absolute right to the road over that of the riders. And that may, in this instance, have contributed to some bad riding from the cyclists that itself put the cyclists at risk.

Both parties escalated the incident somewhat but only one party gets my empathy.

On a more general note I do not like the way that slapping a car is considered to be overly aggressive in the eyes of motorists and the media. It does no harm to the car and should be about as offensive to most as a horn being tooted or an angry shout. We have become a culture that too easily cries "assault" out of self righteousness. I am not excluding cyclists from that last comment.
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Re: Police Investigate Road Rage Attack

Postby Cycleops70 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:07 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: On a more general note I do not like the way that slapping a car is considered to be overly aggressive in the eyes of motorists and the media. It does no harm to the car and should be about as offensive to most as a horn being tooted or an angry shout. We have become a culture that too easily cries "assault" out of self righteousness. I am not excluding cyclists from that last comment.
Nothing seems to create red mist faster than touching someone's car.

Funny thing is, if you don't like your car being touched, then don't drive it within touching distance of people.

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