Handmade bike from Melboure
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Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby hurricanebert » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:30 pm
great forum, have been browsing through it for a while and finally found time to join.
Wondering if anyone can help with this frame. It was made for Bob Pratt in Paraparaumu, NZ, by a recently arrived Italian immigrant frame builder living in Melbourne. It was made between 1979 - 1981 and Bob was selling them under the brand name PEX.
I don't know how to attach photos, so hopefully this link will work for pictures of the frame. As you can see it's a pretty distinctive frame and is well made.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75434604@N04/
Anyone know who the frame builder was? Or possibilities?
Have started restoring it by stripping the paint and found it has been repainted in the past and has a ding it the top tube (probably from the bars??) that was hidden with filler.....
Thanks for any info on this frame.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby stumpjumper » Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:11 pm
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby silentbutdeadly » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:10 am
Nice socks too...
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Re: Handmade bike from Melbourne
Postby hurricanebert » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:21 pm
Thanks for the photos. Not sure about the socks being nice...
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby hurricanebert » Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:23 pm
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby msg » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:26 am
I can take some photos of my bike when I get home tomorrow if you want to see them.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby hurricanebert » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:21 pm
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby msg » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:10 pm
Sorry it took so long to get back to you with the photos. The love hearts in the head stem ---------- are the signature of the Guerciotti factory and are in all steel and alloy frames(dont know about the carbon frames as I have never been close enough to one to check).I got mine from Super Elliots in about 1988 and it still has all of its original running gear from then except for the wheels that got upgraded two months ago, but I still have the originals in the shed at home. Now about your frame, I am going to guess that it might be older than mine just becouse the cable alighniners under the bottom bracket are brazed on items and mine are plastic. How much older than mine that it is I have no idea. If you want photos of anything in particular just say, I have finally worked out how post photos so it will be quicker than this lot.
Matt Gray
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby munga » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:01 am
i don't think there's anything to suggest that the blue bikes is a guerciotti.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melbourne: Lugs
Postby freshpatents » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:02 pm
Yep, the lugs are nothing to go but, for example I have a Cecil Walker and another frame in the shed with those same lugs.
Those one weren't that special in their day. Basically nowadays you can buy any lug you like, and not to highjack your thread but have a look at these or others on the NOVA site
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-fra ... COMBO.html
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby msg » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:31 pm
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby hurricanebert » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:20 pm
Thanks for the replies.
Whilst I would like it to be a Guerciotti I don't believe it is. Perhaps the guy that made it in Melbourne, being a recent italian immigrant and experienced frame builder had worked for Guerciotti in Italy and had access to their lugs?
It's certainly providing hard to narrow down as to who bulit in in Melbourne.
Thanks for all you help,
Brett
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby siennatrack » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:07 pm
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby spirito » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:29 pm
Not only were you told wrong but you're also adding misinformation of your own making.msg wrote: I was told that the love hearts were the signature of Guerciotti and that no one else used them.
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby spirito » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:12 pm
msg wrote:You are right about the Italian heritage of the frame, It is made by Guerciotti.
Wrong. And a stupid assertion.
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby spirito » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:30 pm
The wrap-around stays are more redolant or in the style of British than Italian frame builders. Not a hard fast rule but a fair generalization. Hard to say but I'm thinking the story has got confused somewhere down the line (which often happens).hurricanebert wrote:
Wondering if anyone can help with this frame. It was made for Bob Pratt in Paraparaumu, NZ, by a recently arrived Italian immigrant frame builder living in Melbourne. It was made between 1979 - 1981 and Bob was selling them under the brand name PEX.
I don't know how to attach photos, so hopefully this link will work for pictures of the frame. As you can see it's a pretty distinctive frame and is well made.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75434604@N04/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Anyone know who the frame builder was? Or possibilities?
Brian Rourke frames (Paul Washington has been their main builder since the early 70's) often feature such wrap around stays with stylized heart cutouts.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60987663@N ... otostream/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=121536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Of course there are more than likely others who built in the same style and perhaps even here in Oz. You'll have to correlate these details with others such as vent holes, miter styles, serial numbers etc to track down who the builder is/was. Sometimes you'll never know and there will be lots of red herrings from the large amount of misinformation out there.
Looks like a nice frame, Good luck
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby Velo13 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:38 pm
No, it is highly unlikely that Guerciotti built frames from ORIA Hi-Tensile.hurricanebert wrote:Whilst I would like it to be a Guerciotti I don't believe it is. Perhaps the guy that made it in Melbourne, being a recent italian immigrant and experienced frame builder had worked for Guerciotti in Italy and had access to their lugs?
I remember these frames in the late 80s - mass produced in Italy, but usually cheaper ORIA tubings, the best of which was plain gauge CrMo. They rode okay though.
Europa bought masses of them, and they were often under Abeni stickers. I must have built up about three dozen of the things .... that was a loooong time ago.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby morini » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:14 pm
I've seen lots of frames with heart cut outs Including a number of eighties trade frames from Technotrat and Falk. I'm sure there's dozens depending on who made them and who supplied the lugs.
If it hasn't got clues like pantos, engraved drop-outs, 27.2 seat post etc then it's a waste of time trying to guess. I've got half a dozen frames sitting my shed that I'd love to think were all top qual Italian jobs but I just know that if they were, it'd be obvious.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby BRLVR.v2 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:37 pm
Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.msg wrote:
Sorry it took so long to get back to you with the photos. The love hearts in the head stem ---------- are the signature of the Guerciotti factory and are in all steel and alloy frames(dont know about the carbon frames as I have never been close enough to one to check).I got mine from Super Elliots in about 1988 and it still has all of its original running gear from then except for the wheels that got upgraded two months ago, but I still have the originals in the shed at home. Now about your frame, I am going to guess that it might be older than mine just becouse the cable alighniners under the bottom bracket are brazed on items and mine are plastic. How much older than mine that it is I have no idea. If you want photos of anything in particular just say, I have finally worked out how post photos so it will be quicker than this lot.
Matt Gray
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby spirito » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:29 am
True ... both Prugnat S4 and BoCaMa comp. lugs were used widely in the late 70's to mid to late 80's and featured what looked like heart cutouts but in fact were cast/pressed/manufactured that way. Many builders high and low used the same lugs.morini wrote:
I've seen lots of frames with heart cut outs Including a number of eighties trade frames from Technotrat and Falk. I'm sure there's dozens depending on who made them and who supplied the lugs.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27880623@N05/4582139612/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://mysite.verizon.net/imagelib/site ... lx_pichg3m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not as many builders actually hand cut out their own hearts. Much easier to spot.
Cranky Jim wrote: God did not invent gears. Men invented gears ... because we are not gods.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby munga » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:35 am
still no help to OP with regard to his frame tho
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby Velo13 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:18 pm
Tecnotrat - yeah them's the ones.BRLVR.v2 wrote: Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby morini » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:58 pm
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby funnybike » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:53 pm
Also commonly known as Tecnocrap, for fairly obvious reasons.Velo13 wrote:Tecnotrat - yeah them's the ones.BRLVR.v2 wrote: Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.
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Re: Handmade bike from Melboure
Postby Velo13 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:38 pm
That they were. But they were not expensive at the time. The store I worked in retailed them for $450, when a good euro frame was well over $1000 (that would have been SL though).funnybike wrote:Also commonly known as Tecnocrap, for fairly obvious reasons.Velo13 wrote:Tecnotrat - yeah them's the ones.BRLVR.v2 wrote: Thats one of the tecnotrat built ones , same as the europa badged imports.
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