Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

I describe this as a 'renovation' as this is strictly a 'get it working and ride it' project. I have never ridden one of the early carbon tubed bikes, they were way out of my price range, so when I saw this sad example for sale in the Uni bike co-op I grabbed it as chance to find out what I missed. (it also features in the posh carbon thread at
http://bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic ... 0#p1449351

This bike was more than a bit tatty. No front derailleur, rusty (seized) chain and cassette, mismatched worn chainset and plastic pedals. It must have been stored in the open by the sea and there was a lot of furry corrosion on the lugs. As I expected this cleaned off OK

However, what shocked me was the state of the handlebars, the bartape must have been soaked continuously for some time!

The whole handlebar was like this under the tape, both sides. Fortunately it has an AheadSet stem so the whole lot came off and into the bin to be replaced by a set of bars from the spares box.
Now awaiting new cassette and chain from e-Bay before seeing what the spares shelf can supply to replace the missing and trashed parts. The brifters went to the bin as well so it may end up with down tube levers.
Wheels are OK tho as are the carbon tubes except the top lacquer coat is lifting in places which makes it look tatty. Not sure how to fix that - any suggestions welcomed.
I'm looking forward to just getting this one going and riding it, just to see what it is like.
(Also the weather to warm up so I can touch up the paint.)

Richard

Were the brifters dead, as in broken dead?

WyvernRH wrote: Wheels are OK tho as are the carbon tubes except the top lacquer coat is lifting in places which makes it look tatty. Not sure how to fix that - any suggestions welcomed.

400-600 WET-N-DRY the old lacquer off. Easy to see once you get a feel to not sand the carbon. And rattle can new coat of lacquer. Did the same sort of resto on a giant caadex for my daughter. Nice bike until she rode to work and locked it to a bollard ....would of loved to have seen a cctv of a blonde 16yr old looking around for her bike

10speedsemiracer wrote:Were the brifters dead, as in broken dead?

Internally they seem to be operational as far as I could tell, click noises were happening. They are actually 2x8 speed. However the outside is heavily corroded (see picture) and around the tops where there should be chrome, there is corrosion also some paint lift on the actual levers in places.
I still have them so if you want them drop me a line and I'll mail them up to you.

Richard

NASHIE wrote:

WyvernRH wrote: Wheels are OK tho as are the carbon tubes except the top lacquer coat is lifting in places which makes it look tatty. Not sure how to fix that - any suggestions welcomed.

400-600 WET-N-DRY the old lacquer off. Easy to see once you get a feel to not sand the carbon. And rattle can new coat of lacquer. Did the same sort of resto on a giant caadex for my daughter. Nice bike until she rode to work and locked it to a bollard ....would of loved to have seen a cctv of a blonde 16yr old looking around for her bike

Nice tip, I shall give it a go - thank you!

Cheers
Richard

Just noticed today when replacing the 125mm Easton stem with something more realistic that although the stem is what I think of as an AheadSet type, actual the headset is not! It is a normal headset with a top race and crown nut where the alloy steerer extends beyond the crown nut so the AheadSet type stem can fit. The top cap bolt is very long and screws into something at the bottom of the steerer tube well clear of the threads. Possibly part of the crown casting.



This is a new one for me, I have not seen this combination before. Were they all like that back in 1992?

Oh, you can see the repaired paint on the headlug in the photo as well, came out quite well.

Richard

WyvernRH wrote:

10speedsemiracer wrote:Were the brifters dead, as in broken dead?

Internally they seem to be operational as far as I could tell, click noises were happening. They are actually 2x8 speed. However the outside is heavily corroded (see picture) and around the tops where there should be chrome, there is corrosion also some paint lift on the actual levers in places.
I still have them so if you want them drop me a line and I'll mail them up to you.

Richard

Sorry Richard, thought I had responded, have just realised that I hadn't.

PM'd

10sps/r

Are you sure it's not just a threaless stem adapter?


The ITM Millennium stems were prob the most popular item around then. They were threadless stems which came with the adaptors as most frames still took a 1" threaded steerer.

QuangVuong wrote:Are you sure it's not just a threaless stem adapter?

Absolutely, I know what they look like. I have a bike with one fitted in fact and no this is not a separate part.
The ITM stem is a bit of a Furphy, that is a replacement for the the original Easton.
No, this appears to be aluminum fork and steerer with a threaded stem that has a separate alloy spacer that wraps the stem above the crown nut thread outside the extension to pad out the stem to the correct diameter (25.4) take the 'AheadSet' type stem.
The blue spacer is mine by the way as the ITM stem collar is shorter than the original Easton and needed padding.
All very weird....

Richard

QuangVuong wrote:Are you sure it's not just a threaless stem adapter?

Hmm I owe QuangVuong an apology. This odd set up is a threadless stem adaptor of sorts, just not as we know it captain....

It is probably best thought of as a proto-adaptor that bears as much similarity to the modern version in the photo as a high-wheeler does to a modern racing bike .
It appears to be a piece of very thick-walled aluminium tubing (about 8mm wall thickness) cut exactly the right length and diameter to fit the length of the head tube, headset and stem clamp, while fitting snugly inside the steerer tube on the forks. The tightening bolt is almost the full length of the whole head tube/headset/clamp assembly and I can't work out without disassembly if it screws into a thread in the top of the fork crown or there is some sort of star nut down just above the fork crown. The top cap is a solid machined piece of alloy stepped to fit inside the tubing with a recess in the top for the allen bolt head. It also appears the tubing is somehow attached (by a pin maybe?) to the fork steerer, it doesn't turn or come out, believe me I've tried. Oh yes, and a tubular shim on the bit that sticks out above the headset to space out to the correct O/D to take the stem clamp.

I would be interested if anyone else has a TREK from this era to see what they have fitted. i'm starting to wonder if this is a homemade piece of kit or just an early attempt at using an AheadSet Stem on a 'normal' headset by TREK.

Richard

I think these were just a standard quill stem, and that someone has bodged up a threadless conversion...

[quote="10speedsemiracer"]I think these were just a standard quill stem, and that someone has bodged up a threadless conversion...

My original thoughts exactly but.... it seems they may have come with the AheadSet type of stem as well or there were a lot of conversions.



Photos on the web seem split 30/70 in favour of the quill stem

The thing that says factory fitting most to me is the tubular shim that pads out the central tube to fit the stem clamp. It is very well made, polished stainless steel with all edges rounded off and a perfect fit. In fact the whole thing is very well made. If it is a home build then it was someone with a lathe who knew how to use it.

Richard

WyvernRH wrote:
Photos on the web seem split 30/70 in favour of the quill stem

The thing that says factory fitting most to me is the tubular shim that pads out the central tube to fit the stem clamp. It is very well made, polished stainless steel with all edges rounded off and a perfect fit. In fact the whole thing is very well made. If it is a home build then it was someone with a lathe who knew how to use it.

Richard

Thinking more in terms of retro-fit due to the era the bikes were released and their proximity (sort of) to the arrival of threadless. Owners floating around on these bikes may have wanted to update the aesthetic, or wanted to fit the new generation of bars for whatever reason. Have even seen a couple with the adjustable head angle stems which were sort of in vogue for a short period of time. Is there a threaded steerer under all of the bits? Is very possible the shim is an item that has been cannibalized from a later bike/model, something which I will confess to having done previously.

Well, I finally got the bike reassembled and took it for a ride.

Like I said at he beginning this was not a 'back to the catalogue' restore but more of a renovation so I could ride it.
So everything except the front derailleur came out of the spares box. Final equip was:

Came with the bike:
Wheels - Shimano 600 hubs - matrix rim at the front, unknown (but nice) at the back
Brakes - Shimano 600 Ultegra
Bontrager seatpost
Down tube cable stops
Bottom Bracket- very smooth cartridge type

From the spares box:
Pell handlebars
ITM stem
SunRace 7 speed Brifters
Shimano Road Triple 50/38/26 chainset from the 90's
Shimano Road SPD pedals
Shimano 105 mid length arm rear derailleur
Bontrager bottle cages
Blue saddle
Bartape,
Brakepads
cables and small bits
Bought in:
Claris Triple Front Derailleur

Not especially light at10.25kg

The paint got a bit more work than I originally thought as the corrosion had pin pricked into the paint and required a bit more paint removal and re-spray than expected. I tried to keep all original decals and merge the new purpley paint into the blue/purple original with dubious success but the headbadge was stuffed and was replaced by an earlier TREK headbadge decal I had lying around. I wasn't originally going to change the bars but as you can see above that just had to happen.

So how does it ride? Actually really well, which surprised me a bit as I had heard they were meant to be 'whippy' but basically on short acquaintance it rides pretty much like a high quality steel frame and fairly screams around fast downhill corners. Nice tight handling.

I'm going to give it a go on the commute into Newcastle this week and see how we go.

Richard

Nice..

Well, this bike never ceases to amaze me with things it throws at me. Work and stuff had precluded anything but a couple of short rides around town but I had wondered why the rear wheel was quite heavy. I just thought it was the deep rim maybe...
Anyhow one morning I find the rear tyre has gone flat. Oh well break out the tyre levers..and that's what I did, broke two Park tyre levers for no movement. So, I fetched out the1970's alloy tyre levers and after a lot of agro got one bead off and felt inside to pull out the tube but it still felt hard. Maybe some one has put Finlec or the like in there? If so why did it go down? So after more extensive agro with the metal tyre levers I got the tyre right off the rim and found this.



Yes, someone had put a 23c tyre inside the outer 25c tyre and the inner tube was inside the inner tyre! What sort of person does this and why? I have never seen this before in many decades of riding and fixing bikes. Is this a common thing in Oz cos I can see very little advantage in it

Richard

I know this sort of thing was done in a bikeshop in Mildura to combat the '3-corner jacks' in years past (the early 1980's). The extra thickness helped combat the penetration of the long thorns of the 3-corner jacks. I can't remember the bikeshop's name but it seemed like a time proven practice. It was not your ordinary bikeshop either as they were into their MS Five-Stars.

Because of their shape, the jacks would always land with one really tuff, centimetre long thorn facing up making then a real hazard for cyclists. You had to ask yourself, "Do I want to sacrifice low rolling resistance for puncture-proofness?"

I was given a 2300 several months ago, my body won't cope with this style of a bike anymore, but will fix it up for a friend's kid eventually. Seems to have lived a life in Minnesota going by the sticker.

Same situation, stored in salt air locally, some bare bits of carbon weave, corrosion near the seat post, brifters don't work yet, 9 speed cassette - which I doubt the shifter or the 600 derailleur likes, chain rusted near solid, mountain platform bike pedals that have dodgy bearings etc, etc. Wheelset is totally trashed, is there anyone making retro style rims still - everything seems to be anodised black now?

hunch wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:37 pm

is there anyone making retro style rims still - everything seems to be anodised black now?

Off the top of my head:

Mavic Open Pro
H Plus Son Archetype or TB14
Pacenti Brevet
Velo Orange Voyager or Enterprise
Velocity rims come in silver, as do Soma

P!N20 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:23 pm

hunch wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:37 pm

is there anyone making retro style rims still - everything seems to be anodised black now?

Off the top of my head:

Mavic Open Pro
H Plus Son Archetype or TB14
Pacenti Brevet
Velo Orange Voyager or Enterprise
Velocity rims come in silver

+1 for the Velocity rims.

Also SunXCD which are available in 32h and 36h. Think SunTour, but modernised.

Sun M13II or CR18
Mavic Open Sport or Open Elite

All those have machined sidewalls.

Looks like a few more options than I expected.

Managed to break a tyre lever and had to resort to the end of a spoon to remove the tyres. No doubling up like Wyvern's episode, rubber on the bead cooked onto the aluminium and tore off on removal....only 14mm wide rim too.

Keen to add my example to this topic.
I have been waiting for an opportunity to build this bike up from a frame that i purchased from a friend more than 2 years ago.
It is far from being the final version - for a start the saddle needs to be swapped for something more appropriate and which does not have "Koga Miyata" stamped on it !!!
Anyhow here she is....





The headset is totally fascinating - you can just decipher the faded printing that says "Dia Compe A-Headset"
They were the first engineering/ component manufacturers to introduce the A type headset that is now standard practice.
What is also remarkable, i scrounged some 1990's style brake levers from LBS and they are branded "Cane Creek", which company apparently started as the reinvention of the American office of the Asian Dia Compe organisation about 25 yr ago.

i just pulled out of my in laws shed, my trek 2300 that i bought in the early 90s. looking forward to cleaning it up, may have to replace the brifters with some claris brifters as the shifters are shot

Haven't checked here for a while, appears there's a few out there! I see in one of the brochures, there's mention of them being popular as a tri bike - early 90s probably coinciding with the zenith of that sport, which might explain the numbers.

Plan didn't pan out, it's 62cm, the kiddo, at this stage at least, is a bit too short to clear the top bar. It feels extremely odd to me...haven't ridden a drop bar bike for 10+ years though. This one was made in 94 going by components, other than the wheels, everything is pretty much original, has "carbon" sticker instead of "composite" up top.

The brake cable routing, if anyone encounters it again, was a pain, there's something like a mini pool noodle the cable is supposed to run through as well as the tube. Installed a 13 26 cassette for a little less incline hostility and the big chain ring was quite bent over a distance somehow as well, you get the intermittent rub on the cage at the extremities, even with it pretty true, so might have to spring for a new one.

Paint needs touching up really too, the brochure from that era says black chrome, which appears to be a dark silver metalflake, not really my cup of tea.