Living with a velomobile

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Poiter
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Poiter » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:55 pm

I try to keep under the radar.


The press haven't caught up with me yet though.

nitramluap
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:03 pm

Baalzamon wrote:And now John has gotten himself interviewed! by the ABC and was on the breakfast morning and then GWN came out as well and got it on the night news as well, just found it
Great stuff, John... but I have to ask: why the fluoro top in a Mango?? :wink:
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Aushiker » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:12 pm

Baalzamon wrote:And now John has gotten himself interviewed! by the ABC and was on the breakfast morning and then GWN came out as well and got it on the night news as well, just found it
Well done John :)

Andrew

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:06 pm

Baalzamon wrote:And now John has gotten himself interviewed! by the ABC and was on the breakfast morning and then GWN came out as well and got it on the night news as well, just found it
Brilliant !!! Nice to put a face to the name John.

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:16 pm

Thankfully, BSMUG (Brisbane Sinner Mango User Group) has already appointed a media manager, with a wealth of pre-prepared footage to refer to. :mrgreen:

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:34 pm

Oh dear I'm outed.

Just logged on to tell you lot and put up the links but I see Stuart has beaten me to it.

I came out of the bank to find the ABC guy waiting for me. ABC studio is just over the road so I could hardly refuse. We wangled the mango into the studio, had a bit of a chat and then did the interview pretty much off the top of the head.
It aired next morning and at about 9.00 am the TV mob rang.

By the time they got here it was raining and cold standing round. Hence the top, Paul. I didn't need to remove it for a couple of runs up and down the street between the showers.
Edit. Oh you meant the flouro in the photo. Slow brain here. Put that on out of the velo. As you say not needed when riding.

There was no prior discussion with the reporter so I had no idea what she would ask. The cameraman took quite a bit of video and I see they cut and swapped around to fit. Not too bad a job for the TV news.
I hope that it helps with promoting velos.

Today we went out for a ride of about 20 km. Wife on trike with dog in trailer and me with the Mango. By the number of waves and toots quite a lot of people had seen the segment.

On the way home I passed a group of young indiginous guys who asked to take a photo. I had to act quickly to stop the guy with the half empty wine bottle who went to sit on the front. It was actually starting to buckle. He got a serve from his mate who told him it was only thin fibreglass. My fault I should have pointed out that it was fragile up front.

I moved the chain return tube from under the pulley to the side today and it more than halved the chain noise.

BTW Rhubarb and BSMUG. I don't come cheap. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

John

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:55 pm

Just had a thought Rhubarb.

If Baalzamon gets a Mango and moves down here we will be Albany Sinner Mango Group ASMUG (As Smug). :D

John

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Rhubarb » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:03 pm

il padrone wrote: .... My brother rides a Rotovelo and I am surprised by the distances he rides, seemingly so easily.....
Here's the first leg of a great ride from Harry Leiben who works for Sinner Bikes (makers of the Mango):

http://connect.garmin.com/page/activity ... id=1524580

There and back he rode over 400kms in a day. Not bad for a 50 year old. No doubt the reclined position helps out the back and joints over longer distances.

PS Check out the elevation chart though, unbelievable. I have more elevation on my 12km commute

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:13 pm

I think that flat land makes a difference.
There is a YouTube video I watched with Harry and Arjen I think riding some considerable distance to make a delivery.

Here are the vids.





Go to YouTube to read the details.

Even on ROAM and in the Rockies and all they were averaging insane distances. Can't recall if it was 200km or 200 miles per day.

I'm not fast but if I take it easy I think I'd be able to comfortably ride all day and in almost any weather. I can't say that for any of my other bikes.

John
Last edited by John Lewis on Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nitramluap
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:22 pm

John Lewis wrote: It was actually starting to buckle. He got a serve from his mate who told him it was only thin fibreglass. My fault I should have pointed out that it was fragile up front.
Yikes.

You'll get very good at telling people how fragile the front is quickly, before they get too close. I must say, I really dislike people that need to look at my Mango with their fingers. You'll get a lot of that. It is particularly bad when it is dirty. Fingers rubbed on the dirty gelcoat leaves tiny scratches which have to be polished out - same with the hood's visor. Unsupervised children are the worst!

The interview went well but I can't help get the feeling that they were partly taking the piss to be honest, particularly the ABC interview.

Also, I'm a little perplexed that you say you were 'led to believe' the Mango would be faster, John, as you mentioned in the interview. Had you entered your power data into the speed calculator before? When punching the numbers into the speed & power calculator, my actaul cruising speed is spot on with the predicted speed:

http://www.hembrow.eu/personal/kreuzotter/espeed.htm

I'm 70kg, 173cm tall and can output a sustained ~200W below my anaerobic threshold for many hours. I can output much more for anaerobic sprints but this results in an oxygen debt that needs to be repaid so that's not really relevant. This gives me an on-the-flat cruising speed of 43km/h which is precisely what I comfortably cruise at.

The figures are also correct when I substitute the Mango Sport for my road bike (on the drops) - I cruise at about 34km/h on it (aerobic).
My bike is heavier than your bike. :D

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:29 pm

Hi Paul,

Yes I'd agree with the comments on taking the proverbial. I think it goes with the territory. Particularly with those breakfast programmes. The interviewer Andrew was in fact very interested in the mango and we had quite a talk about it afterwards. Had he not been so tall I might have let him try it out.

When it comes to the speed I have played with the calculator but I have no real idea of my power only to say it is not great or at least not sustainable. I can just hit 30 on the flat but cant maintain it for more than probably 30 seconds.
From my reading I'd decided I'd be somewhat faster than I currently manage. in fact I am a bit and that may improve. I'd love to have the chance to try one of those power meter devices and see what I in fact can produce.
More to the point is that in the interview you are having to respond quickly and off the top of your head so you don't always manage to say what you intend. I've done quite a few interviews over the years both for TV and radio and although I'm used to it it never seems to get easier.

John

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:41 pm

Now Here's an Odd Thing

Riding to town and back the other day there was a fairly strong wind. Going it was more or less a quartering tail wind from the left and returning a quartering head wind from the right.

Going to town is generally down hill whereas returning is more up.

On the way in I averaged around 22.5 and returning the average went up to 24.1 by the time I got back to my turn off on the highway.

Note that the average improved even though the return is more up hill.
Normally I'm a lot slower than that on this ride.

The only thing I can put the improvement down to is that there was some sort of sail effect a bit like tacking a yacht assisting me.

John

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby il padrone » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:56 pm

John Lewis wrote:The only thing I can put the improvement down to is that there was some sort of sail effect a bit like tacking a yacht assisting me.
Does not make much sense. Yachts run much faster on a broad reach downwind than they can close-hauled into it.

Should be the same for velomobiles :|
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby John Lewis » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:32 pm

yes.

That's why I can't figure it out.
There was obviously something at work though and I don't know what.

John

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Joeblake » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:51 pm

Perhaps with the wind running over the shell there was an aerofoil "lift" over the front of the velo which reduced the air pressure and therefore the wind resistance, which meant you went faster.

I used to sail a 12 foot Surfcat and during light breezes I found tensioning up the battens in the sail generated more lift by giving the sail more of an aerofoil shape.

Joe
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Joeblake » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:56 pm

I suppose one way to test that theory would be put to put the velo on a scale and weigh in still air and then run a big fan on the front, and see if the weight changes. Theoretically, there should be some weight reduction.

Joe
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby il padrone » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:33 am

Certainly correct that sails are aerofoils. That's how a yacht sails upwind, however it's still not fast, and the principle of an aerofoil relies on an asymmetrical shape. I'm not sure that it works with a symerical shape like a velomobile, especially a bullet rather than a foil. Also, most of the pressure is sideways. A sailboat gains forward motion from this by having the sail at an angle to the hull - not the case with a velomobile.

Image


I reckon it is more likely to be some sort of physical/psychological difference eg. you were more warmed up for the home run; or you were expecting a hard push homewards so rode it that much harder without realising.
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Joeblake » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:09 am

Just looking at this photo it seems to me that with the flat bottom and curved top the shell vaguely resembles an aerofoil shape.

Image

Joe
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby il padrone » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:19 am

Joeblake wrote:Just looking at this photo it seems to me that with the flat bottom and curved top the shell vaguely resembles an aerofoil shape.
Yes, the flat bottom of the Mango makes it slightly aerfoil in side view (and it does have holes in it). But I was talking about the plan view. An aerofoil in side view would give lift - not necessarily something that would produce higher speed.



Has that canopy been Photoshopped on? And the front of the shell?
Mandatory helmet law?
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Joeblake » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:42 am

I never mentioned sideways lift. In any case, given that in plan the shell is bilaterally symmetrical, then any putative lift vector generated from side to side would be wholly or partially cancelled out, varying with the angle of incidence on the wind.

Joe
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Joeblake » Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:57 am

il padrone wrote:


Has that canopy been Photoshopped on? And the front of the shell?
John Lewis:

I sent the picture of mine to mate in Brisbane. He commented that he thought the hood was ugly. Indeed he thinks the Mango is too.
Anyway he sent me this GIMP job of mine to show me how he thought it ought to look.
Joe
To acquire immunity to eloquence is of the utmost importance to the citizens of a democracy
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nitramluap
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:23 am

John Lewis wrote:Hi Paul,

Yes I'd agree with the comments on taking the proverbial. I think it goes with the territory. Particularly with those breakfast programmes. The interviewer Andrew was in fact very interested in the mango and we had quite a talk about it afterwards. Had he not been so tall I might have let him try it out.
Hi John,

Yes, it is a shame. I certainly would have expected more from the ABC but then they don't have a very good track record with their television breakfast show and I simply cannot stand our local ABC radio breakfast talking head.
John Lewis wrote:When it comes to the speed I have played with the calculator but I have no real idea of my power only to say it is not great or at least not sustainable. I can just hit 30 on the flat but cant maintain it for more than probably 30 seconds.
From my reading I'd decided I'd be somewhat faster than I currently manage. in fact I am a bit and that may improve. I'd love to have the chance to try one of those power meter devices and see what I in fact can produce.
30km/h on the flat would equate to about 100W at the crank. 50W at the crank will give you roughly a cruising speed on the flat (no wind) of 19km/h. A colleague of mine does does pre-operative anaerobic threshold testing and I was able to go on her machine for a bit of fun. At least I know the figures are accurate. Many devices for measuring power output are not very accurate. I hear stories of riders who claim to have a power output (aerobic) of 500W or more... that's just nonsense. Lance Armstrong at his peak had a sustained output below his AT of 370W and we was shoulders above the competition!

I'm pretty happy with 200-250W!
John Lewis wrote:More to the point is that in the interview you are having to respond quickly and off the top of your head so you don't always manage to say what you intend. I've done quite a few interviews over the years both for TV and radio and although I'm used to it it never seems to get easier.
Yes, I've done a few too. Even if you think you've said everything clearly it can be very easily edited to sound different. I'm slowly learning from my mistakes. My interviews have been with respect to mandatory bicycle helmet laws, not the Mango. In fact, I don't think anyone is particularly interested in it here in Brisbane. I'm sure they think I'm either mad or disabled.

Cheers,

Paul
My bike is heavier than your bike. :D

nitramluap
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby nitramluap » Sun Jun 10, 2012 11:25 am

John Lewis wrote:Now Here's an Odd Thing

Riding to town and back the other day there was a fairly strong wind. Going it was more or less a quartering tail wind from the left and returning a quartering head wind from the right.

Going to town is generally down hill whereas returning is more up.

On the way in I averaged around 22.5 and returning the average went up to 24.1 by the time I got back to my turn off on the highway.

Note that the average improved even though the return is more up hill.
Normally I'm a lot slower than that on this ride.

The only thing I can put the improvement down to is that there was some sort of sail effect a bit like tacking a yacht assisting me.

John
Nah... I reckon you're just getting used to the velomobile and you're starting to open her up! :-D
My bike is heavier than your bike. :D

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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:01 pm

John Lewis wrote:Just had a thought Rhubarb.

If Baalzamon gets a Mango and moves down here we will be Albany Sinner Mango Group ASMUG (As Smug). :D

John
Now I would need a job down there to do that, or pay off my all my debts. Already thinking about that one and just riding and picking up the odd job here n there :)
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Re: Living with a velomobile

Postby smoran » Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:12 pm

nitramluap wrote: I'm sure they think I'm either mad or disabled.
Crazy like a fox :-)

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