Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

[Alex Simmons/RST]

And another fails the IQ, er doping, test. Matteo Rabottini on EPO.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rabotti ... ve-for-epo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cycling's new clean generation.

[wombatK]

I though cycling's response to the Armstrong era doping has been a joke, but for a much bigger laugh, take a look at the NFL's idea
of getting tough on drugs. Biceps the size of tree trunks obviously grown with the help of HGH, and it's only a 4 week ban if you're
dopey enough to be caught out...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... rug-policy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ColinOldnCranky]

I though cycling's response to the Armstrong era doping has been a joke, but for a much bigger laugh, take a look at the NFL's idea
of getting tough on drugs. Biceps the size of tree trunks obviously grown with the help of HGH, and it's only a 4 week ban if you're
dopey enough to be caught out...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... rug-policy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is nothing obvious. Massive muscles may have a high correlation with doping but I'd venture that it is not the universal explanation. And therein lies the problem.

I think, with the right people driving it from the top, there is hope of a cleaner future with expanding their tools beyond simple testing such as with the more sophisticated blood passport, plus use of intelligence and heavy legal powers. And the retention of samples for later use.

[trailgumby]

Not the whole answer? Really?

Well you're right insofar as you still have to work your butt off, but what is possible with training is severely curtailed without pharmacological assistance.

Just look at the changes in player physiques over the last 25 years. Putting that down solely to training methods and diet stretches credibility hair thin. We know from other fields of "sport" (aka bodybuilding) that drug free proponents are much as they were before the steroids era.

[Xplora]

I think there has been a much stronger selection of appropriate biology for some of these sports, as well as a stronger recognition of what it takes.

15 years ago I was working with a few Balmain players, first grade and reserve grade, their lifestyles did not indicate professional athlete. Their physique didn't indicate it either.
I saw a dozen Parramatta players 6 months back, they looked like a Arnold sideshow. Much more money behind the sport over a decade means your big primary schoolers in the junior clubs have flowed through and now fill the front row in first grade. Have a look at your local race, the A grade riders are self selected in the same way, no fat blokes there even if they aren't young anymore.

So I don't buy that drugs is the sole answer. Sport naturally selects, and a bit of money makes that more worthwhile for potential tree loppers or brickies labourers to throw a ball instead.

[Red Rider]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/ro ... judgements" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great news. Timely resolutions will be very welcome.

[biker jk]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/ro ... judgements

Great news. Timely resolutions will be very welcome.

Speed is important but taking the decision away from the national federations is key.

[Red Rider]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/ro ... judgements

Great news. Timely resolutions will be very welcome.

Speed is important but taking the decision away from the national federations is key.

Absolutely. I think the two issues, leniency and sluggish outcomes, went hand-in-hand with the way many national federations handled cases. Two birds with one stone.

For comparison, in the case of Rogers, I don't think the Swiss Federation got involved, I think the UCI generally consulted with WADA to investigate, which took 4 months. Way too long still.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Maxim Iglinsky positive for EPO

To follow up his brother's positive earlier on.

That's 6 pro cycling EPO provisional suspensions in last 10 weeks.

[biker jk]

Maxim Iglinsky positive for EPO

To follow up his brother's positive earlier on.

That's 6 pro cycling EPO provisional suspensions in last 10 weeks.

The new clean era in all its glory.

[singlespeedscott]

Regardless of the era stupidity will always be found in humans.

[find_bruce]

Somewhat unusual that Maxim's test was earlier than Valentin's, but the news didn't get out until much later.

Given that Astana are part of the Movement for Credible Cycling (MPCC), (1) are Astana going to auto-suspend itself for eight days, starting on the day of the next WorldTour event, Il Lombardia on Sunday 5 October and include the Tour of Beijing starting 10 October. It would also include the event in Kakakhstan, the Tour of Almaty on Sundat 5 October.

It will also be interesting to see the Astana explanation at the next MPCC.

Can Astana remain a member of the MPCC, & if so, how much credibility does the MPCC retain ?

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Somewhat unusual that Maxim's test was earlier than Valentin's, but the news didn't get out until much later.

Given that Astana are part of the Movement for Credible Cycling (MPCC), (1) are Astana going to auto-suspend itself for eight days, starting on the day of the next WorldTour event, Il Lombardia on Sunday 5 October and include the Tour of Beijing starting 10 October. It would also include the event in Kakakhstan, the Tour of Almaty on Sundat 5 October.

It will also be interesting to see the Astana explanation at the next MPCC.

Can Astana remain a member of the MPCC, & if so, how much credibility does the MPCC retain ?

I think Vino would argue that a provisional suspension is not not yet a finalised doping sanction and until it is, it doesn't count. There is no way in the world that Astana won't ride in their home tour in some way shape or form.

[singlespeedscott]

Astana is team run by a former drug cheat. Nuff said.

[biker jk]

Astana is team run by a former drug cheat. Nuff said.

Yes this is a huge problem. There's also Riis (Mr 60%) at Tinkoff-Saxo. I recall the UCI suggesting they were going to ban drug cheats from running cycling teams but I'm not sure where the proposal ended up (probably abandoned).

[Xplora]

Matt White was back in charge of OGE after some time out from Cycling Australia IIRC?

I can appreciate the sentiment around Armstrong running a team in the future, but no drug cheats decimates the possible candidate pool to the point where pro cycling doesn't have a credible management structure

[biker jk]

Matt White was back in charge of OGE after some time out from Cycling Australia IIRC?

I can appreciate the sentiment around Armstrong running a team in the future, but no drug cheats decimates the possible candidate pool to the point where pro cycling doesn't have a credible management structure

It depends on your definition of "credible". Mine is probably different to yours in that having drug cheats run pro teams suggests the opposite of credible. I also doubt that there isn't a pool of prospective team managers who weren't drug cheats. Sending a strong message that if you cheat you will never be allowed to be part of team management sounds sensible to me.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

At least half of the DS's at this year's TdF have had a known doping infraction.

[ldrcycles]

Matt White was back in charge of OGE after some time out from Cycling Australia IIRC?

I can appreciate the sentiment around Armstrong running a team in the future, but no drug cheats decimates the possible candidate pool to the point where pro cycling doesn't have a credible management structure

It depends on your definition of "credible". Mine is probably different to yours in that having drug cheats run pro teams suggests the opposite of credible. I also doubt that there isn't a pool of prospective team managers who weren't drug cheats. Sending a strong message that if you cheat you will never be allowed to be part of team management sounds sensible to me.

+1, if you can't stick to the rules, don't be a part of the sport.

[Xplora]

^^^ In principle I totally agree with your sentiment ldr, but the reality of the Armstrong years (including that crazy year where Cadel was the first placed nondoper in 2006 <?> in 8th place) is that the pool of future managers is actually quite small once you refuse to include any past dopers.

Alex, that is quite a hefty figure!

Reality is that cycling is shagged as a sport for a few decades until you get blokes like Cadel and Rogers coming through and taking up DS positions for the long term. Assuming they are clean too

[toolonglegs]

Rogers ? ...

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Alex, that is quite a hefty figure!

Some time back I went through the list of DS's and cross referenced with the dopeology database. The only variation was I included Vinokourov in my checks even though he wasn't officially named by Astana as such, it was pretty clear he was.

If you had the team staff rosters, you could probably do same with all key personnel.

While there is a line that suggests that such a clear out would mean inadequate resource/talent to manage bike racing and it helps to have someone that has been through the pressure to help prevent others from falling into the same trap, I'm of the view that it is these people that kept more ethical people out of the sport to begin with, removing their opportunity to learn, develop and gain experience. Some people can learn and change their ways, especially when external circumstances were the major factor in driving that behaviour, but not all of them. My problem is that many of those external factors have not changed all that much.

[find_bruce]

Somewhat unusual that Maxim's test was earlier than Valentin's, but the news didn't get out until much later.

Given that Astana are part of the Movement for Credible Cycling (MPCC), (1) are Astana going to auto-suspend itself for eight days, starting on the day of the next WorldTour event, Il Lombardia on Sunday 5 October and include the Tour of Beijing starting 10 October. It would also include the event in Kakakhstan, the Tour of Almaty on Sundat 5 October.

It will also be interesting to see the Astana explanation at the next MPCC.

Can Astana remain a member of the MPCC, & if so, how much credibility does the MPCC retain ?

I think Vino would argue that a provisional suspension is not not yet a finalised doping sanction and until it is, it doesn't count. There is no way in the world that Astana won't ride in their home tour in some way shape or form.

Hold onto your hats folks

Vinokourov calls MPCC president Roger Legeay
Legay says “If the rider doesn’t want a counter-analysis then the team would auto-suspend itself. If he asks for the B-sample, however, we must wait for the result of the counter-analysis."
Vinokourov speaks to Maxim Iglinskiy.
Iglinskiy says I want my B sample tested
Results of B sample won't be available before Sunday
Astana ride in the Tour of Almaty

Some people can learn and change their ways, especially when external circumstances were the major factor in driving that behaviour, but not all of them. My problem is that many of those external factors have not changed all that much.

You are not alone in thinking that Alex.

[biker jk]

Apparently Maxim Inglinskiy will confess on Monday, so the B sample request was to allow Astana to ride in their home tour.

[Xplora]

I'm of the view that it is these people that kept more ethical people out of the sport to begin with, removing their opportunity to learn, develop and gain experience.

This is certainly the tragedy of it. I don't think it's necessarily different to the rest of the working world... ethics are treated to 2nd fiddle by many people. At least we know the cheats are cheating.