Chain & cassette wear - not lasting >3,000km

[Nate]

Nope. So far as I'm aware there are 2 bottles of it at my place in QLD, and the bottle Nate has.
Look at their webpage.. they list online distributors. I bought mine from "My Life at Speed".

yep - same same here. so its "expensive" (depends on how you look at the cost/lifespan equation!)
first ride in & all beautiful (as you'd expect from a clean chain) - we'll see how it progresses.

I'm also doing some testing of it for "another application" (high pressure compressed air environment), and if it works - maybe the guys i'm passing it to could look into being a distributor.

[Comedian]

Nope. So far as I'm aware there are 2 bottles of it at my place in QLD, and the bottle Nate has.
Look at their webpage.. they list online distributors. I bought mine from "My Life at Speed".

yep - same same here. so its "expensive" (depends on how you look at the cost/lifespan equation!)
first ride in & all beautiful (as you'd expect from a clean chain) - we'll see how it progresses.

I'm also doing some testing of it for "another application" (high pressure compressed air environment), and if it works - maybe the guys i'm passing it to could look into being a distributor.

I'll be interested to hear how it goes.

The thing that struck me about it (and motorex dry) is they are like none of the other lubes that I tested. They look very similar to a normal oil like Morgan Blue when they go on, but they dry. I would say they almost behave like a hybrid of the dry and wet oils. It probably isn't quite as clean as a pure dry - but that could be because it's lasting 2-4x longer than the normal dry would have.

When you do go to try and clean things they don't behave normally ... as I've mentioned I used two cans of degreaser trying to get the regular off the crank. It just ignored the degreaser and the film stays.

So the upshot of that ramble is that if your "application" needs a persistent coating that can be applied and let to dry then it might be interesting. I think it would be completely unsuitable for delivery on the go with other fluids.

[Nate]

The thing that struck me about it (and motorex dry) is they are like none of the other lubes that I tested. They look very similar to a normal oil like Morgan Blue when they go on, but they dry. I would say they almost behave like a hybrid of the dry and wet oils. It probably isn't quite as clean as a pure dry - but that could be because it's lasting 2-4x longer than the normal dry would have.

When you do go to try and clean things they don't behave normally ... as I've mentioned I used two cans of degreaser trying to get the regular off the crank. It just ignored the degreaser and the film stays.

So the upshot of that ramble is that if your "application" needs a persistent coating that can be applied and let to dry then it might be interesting. I think it would be completely unsuitable for delivery on the go with other fluids.

the "application" currently uses a grease which is a blend of PTFE/PFPE (Ultimox) - which is the much cheaper alternative to Krytox - an oil like lube, which is typically used in SCUBA applications also.
(Its a moving rubber/leather/plastic piston inside of a metal sleeve)

Only the 2nd ride so far so little data, but its still a bit "wet" (i used the light ProX version), and its a little grey when wiped down.
Feels a lot like the silicon lube I use on the other stuff.
Silent & shifting really well.

Just ordered 2 nice wipperman connex sx chains too!

[Aussteve2712]

A+ huge thanks to all.

Anyone want some RnR?
Fantastic write up: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Dumo ... _3977.html

I also realised i was using a Bio lube... hmmm i think there in lies the issue.

Dumonde for me

Hi Nate, any idea where Dumonde Lite can be bought in Australia? My search on the net hasn't found anything.

Nope. So far as I'm aware there are 2 bottles of it at my place in QLD, and the bottle Nate has.

Look at their webpage.. they list online distributors. I bought mine from "My Life at Speed".

Tried that,the Australian website seems to be dead and the International website doesn't have any Australasian distributors.

[Aussteve2712]

All below items Shimano Ultegra...
My chains last just under 10,000km at which time they reach the .75% indicator and are replaced.
Cassettes last 20,000km app before needing replacing.
Chain rings over 20,000 and still no substantial shark toothing.
BUT...
I do lube chain with Lanotec app every 150km and wipe off excess.
I wipe the chain clean after EVERY ride with a chux wipe while running the chain backwards (takes less than 1 minute).
I relube if there has been wet roads or rain.
I also wash the chain, sprockets and derailleur rollers with a small amount of kero (using a app 40mm paintbrush) when they get black, or after a wet and dirty ride (and then relube of course).
Make sure the lube gets inside the rollers of the chain and wipe off excess. Excess lube on the exterior of the chain only attracts grit.

Lanotec is inexpensive so can afford to use regularly. I use an old TriFlow bottle that has the very thin capillary tube to apply the Lanotec along the side plates of each side of the chain while running the chain backwards.

Without lube you have metal on metal friction inside the rollers and pins of the chain.

Keeping the chain lubricated, and chain sprockets and derailleur rollers clean of grit, assists the longevity of the drive train.

Hi CoffsGal, I've been researching this myself & decided, based on your post & same location (conditions), to try Lanotec myself on my chain. I already use Lanotec in different applications for various uses, but not the bike, it just makes so much sense. My query is whether or not you have ever measured the amount you use on your chain. I've oiled my chain twice now using Lanotec & applying it through a 5ml. syringe.

[CoffsGal]

All below items Shimano Ultegra...
My chains last just under 10,000km at which time they reach the .75% indicator and are replaced.
Cassettes last 20,000km app before needing replacing.
Chain rings over 20,000 and still no substantial shark toothing.
BUT...
I do lube chain with Lanotec app every 150km and wipe off excess.
I wipe the chain clean after EVERY ride with a chux wipe while running the chain backwards (takes less than 1 minute).
I relube if there has been wet roads or rain.
I also wash the chain, sprockets and derailleur rollers with a small amount of kero (using a app 40mm paintbrush) when they get black, or after a wet and dirty ride (and then relube of course).
Make sure the lube gets inside the rollers of the chain and wipe off excess. Excess lube on the exterior of the chain only attracts grit.

Lanotec is inexpensive so can afford to use regularly. I use an old TriFlow bottle that has the very thin capillary tube to apply the Lanotec along the side plates of each side of the chain while running the chain backwards.

Without lube you have metal on metal friction inside the rollers and pins of the chain.

Keeping the chain lubricated, and chain sprockets and derailleur rollers clean of grit, assists the longevity of the drive train.

Hi CoffsGal, I've been researching this myself & decided, based on your post & same location (conditions), to try Lanotec myself on my chain. I already use Lanotec in different applications for various uses, but not the bike, it just makes so much sense. My query is whether or not you have ever measured the amount you use on your chain. I've oiled my chain twice now using Lanotec & applying it through a 5ml. syringe.

Hi Steve,

I don't measure the amount (I re use an old TriFlo bottle with a very small capillary tube) and just apply enough Lanotec over each edge of the chain, to ensure it has seeped into the spaces between the side plates and roller bushes. Probably about 1ml or 1.5ml applied. I bought a 750ml bottle about 2 years ago ($18 then) and still about 150ml left. The syringe should be good to allow the lube to be applied to just the required areas, and in the appropriate quantity. Lanotec is cheap to purchase so use often and keep chain clean.

[Aussteve2712]

Thanks for that CoffsGal. One more question, there used to be group rides from Coffs city centre but I don't see them advertised anymore, are they still happening? Do you know what group rides there are around?
Thanks again.

[CoffsGal]

Thanks for that CoffsGal. One more question, there used to be group rides from Coffs city centre but I don't see them advertised anymore, are they still happening? Do you know what group rides there are around?
Thanks again.

This is off topic so will reply with PM.

[Tim]

...apply the Lanotec along the side plates of each side of the chain

I used to do this but with modern chains it isn't necessary. One drop on the roller is enough.
The bushing underneath/inside the rollers is split. Lube will make it's way through the split, along the pin and out to the side plates.
With a thin lube consistency capillary action works quite quickly to disperse the lube throughout all the moving parts of the chain, side plates included.
Sheldon Brown explains it very well. The newer modern chain is actually called "bushingless". Scroll down the article and see Lubricant Flow.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

[eeksll]

...apply the Lanotec along the side plates of each side of the chain

I used to do this but with modern chains it isn't necessary. One drop on the roller is enough.
The bushing underneath/inside the rollers is split. Lube will make it's way through the split, along the pin and out to the side plates.
With a thin lube consistency capillary action works quite quickly to disperse the lube throughout all the moving parts of the chain, side plates included.
Sheldon Brown explains it very well. The newer modern chain is actually called "bushingless". Scroll down the article and see Lubricant Flow.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chains.html

good post. I was just about to ask if what CoffsGal posted was necessary since that has never been the way I do it.

[Nate]

So 3,000km later...

Unfortunately i did it quite non-scientifically and changed a few variables at the same time, this however saved both time & money.

What i changed:
- lube: went across to dumonde tech
- chainring: swapped the FSA for a shimano
- chain: went from KMC el cheapo, to wipperman 11sx (stainless inner)

What didnt change:
- riding: same route, same style/gears
- cassette: shimano 105

result: after another 3,000km - ZERO measurable chain wear
Why?
I think the chainring was an issue - a mate was using the same rings & confirmed they used a sophisticated alloy of aluminium & butter. they wear INSANELY quick.
Lube - i think thats the other big factor, moving from the bio oil to dumonde - its so much easier to keep clean, one pass with the chain cleaner for 1min makes it look like 10 rinses in an oil bath.

I also just got an ultrasonic cleaner - OMGosh! what comes out of the chain is incredible, as clean as it looks its like there's a little squid in there inking away!

[trailgumby]

I've had FSA in the past. It's been short-lived rubbish and the first thing I'd swap out of the drivetrain on any bike purchase. Their external cup bottom brackets are expensive junk (killed three in under a year) and their cranks spindles are just a fraction of a mm too big to fit properly in a Shimano BB.

What did you get for an ultrasonic cleaner, and where did you source it from? Oh, and what do you use for solvent? Been thinking about going down that route myself.

[Patt0]

My first chain lasted ~3000km. I was a disappointed after reading people getting 10,000km. I did what I was told, wiped the chain and put on the the latest and greatest lubes.

On my second chain and now at 3000km and have no measurable wear. Same lubes, same 105, 11sp chain. Difference?? I clean the chain after every rainy commute.

A chain is only as clean as the solvent that cleans it, well it can be a little cleaner if you also air blow it. I use four progressively cleaner pots of mineral turps.

[Duck!]

I've had FSA in the past. It's been short-lived rubbish and the first thing I'd swap out of the drivetrain on any bike purchase. Their external cup bottom brackets are expensive junk (killed three in under a year) and their cranks spindles are just a fraction of a mm too big to fit properly in a Shimano BB.

There are some who suggest the FSA acronym is for Faulty Stuff Attached...

[kb]

Doh! Looking at my bike

Code: Select all

SEATPOST        FSA SLK
HANDLEBAR       FSA ENERGY COMPACT
STEM            FSA SLK
...
CRANKSET        FSA SLK 52X36
HEADSET         FSA IS2 1-1/8 X 1-3/8”
BOTTOM BRACKET  FSA PF30

I'm doomed!

[cyclotaur]

Interesting....I've done a documented 38,000kms on my basic FSA crankset and only changed the little ring once, the original big ring is still fine. I would probably use 2 chains per year, so about 4500-5000kms per chain.

I've never worn out a cassette, though I've changed over a few (for more low gears eg. 27>30>32) and run 3 different wheelsets. probably use the one wheelset 75% of the time though.

I'm not obsessive about the drivetrain, probably clean and lube every 2-3 weeks, and maybe pull the whole thing off every couple of months for a thorough clean.

However, i'm not commuting and pick my days to ride. Daily commutes in all conditions can be pretty tough on drivetrains.

[Nate]

What did you get for an ultrasonic cleaner, and where did you source it from? Oh, and what do you use for solvent? Been thinking about going down that route myself.

Fleabay...
35W something cheap with an Australian plug
"Multi Purpose Ultrasonic Sonic Wave Cleaner Jewellery Glasses Watch Cleaning New"
$40 delivered, "600ml size"

I just use liquid degreaser & works a treat to remove the dumonde - as its not sticky.
2-3 passes with degreaser, then 2 with water, a very light rub with lannox on the outer plates to stop rust forming & then lube it up.

[trailgumby]

Daily commutes in all conditions can be pretty tough on drivetrains.

Yeah, that's me. Rule 9.

But I choose my weapon. Not the road bike.

[Comedian]

I did my chain again on the weekend. I've been riding a fair bit, and it's lasted three weeks. It wasn't noisy but shifting was starting to degrade. Again.. I do try and remember how good this is considering that when using more normal oils I was re-applying twice a week. I just haven't got time for that.

[eeksll]

What did you get for an ultrasonic cleaner, and where did you source it from? Oh, and what do you use for solvent? Been thinking about going down that route myself.

Fleabay...
35W something cheap with an Australian plug
"Multi Purpose Ultrasonic Sonic Wave Cleaner Jewellery Glasses Watch Cleaning New"
$40 delivered, "600ml size"

I just use liquid degreaser & works a treat to remove the dumonde - as its not sticky.
2-3 passes with degreaser, then 2 with water, a very light rub with lannox on the outer plates to stop rust forming & then lube it up.

by "passes" do you mean turning it on 3 times or swapping out the liquid with each degreaser pass?

either way thats still quite a lengthy process. I have been thinking about getting the ultrasonic cleaner, dropping the chain in and coming back later is kinda appealing.

[Nate]

by "passes" do you mean turning it on 3 times or swapping out the liquid with each degreaser pass?

either way thats still quite a lengthy process. I have been thinking about getting the ultrasonic cleaner, dropping the chain in and coming back later is kinda appealing.

ummm both...
its a cheapie that has a default 3 minute time. so you turn it on, do something, press it again...

but def 3 swaps of the liquid - first 2 passes its REALLY filthy, then cleans up really quickly.

[Comedian]

So my mate rings me up.. I kind of look after her bike. "my bike's started changing like rubbish... it's like it's got a broken cable or something. It just won't change up!". Me - "ok bring it over".

So, I get the bike ... In the stand it's changing OK.. but looks a bit slow. It's set to the outside and I comment on this and she says "I wound it because it wasn't shifting up". So we just changed the cable but I loosen it off and check it. It's fine. So then I touch the chain.. looks a bit shiny in the middle. It's got nothing... just a hint of black comes off on my fingers. That will be it.

Me: When did you do the chain? "Oh.. before race XXXX". Ok

So, I look and add it up. It was pretty much one month ago. In that time she's done 1005k of commuting in all conditions, training and racing. I reckon Dumonde lasts OK.

[Lurkin]

Uncovered after ~1500kms and just one dose of lube:

Perfect setup. Can you advise of the chainguard and where to get one? Im unsure if it will work for me given it will need to suit a full suspension mtb, but it may just get a little cutting

[ironhanglider]

Uncovered after ~1500kms and just one dose of lube:

Perfect setup. Can you advise of the chainguard and where to get one? Im unsure if it will work for me given it will need to suit a full suspension mtb, but it may just get a little cutting

It's a Hebie chainglider, but it'll only work with a single cog front and rear. I'm sure that there are some dual suspension bikes around with hub gears that don't vary the chain length with compression, but I don't imagine that they are common. If you have to cut holes in it, it won't work as desired.

Cheers,

Cameron