Track Race Report Thread

[mikesbytes]

LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Xplora]

Mine is plated. Every collarbone that I've seen that wasn't punned or plated has turned out crocked, some even had a narrowed shoulder

That would reduce my frontal area so could reduce my cdA...

This is a man who is committed to Aero

[mikesbytes]

But he needs to break the other collar bone to bring that shoulder in too

[dalai47]

Not that commited!

Back to race reports. Going stir crazy housebound, so would like some reports to live vicariously through others...

[mikesbytes]

Not that commited!

Back to race reports. Going stir crazy housebound, so would like some reports to live vicariously through others...

Here's my partner doing a flying 200 at Illaware Veldrome, Wollongong

[dalai47]

Definite time to be made once she learns to hold the black line at that speed...

Saw the surgeon today after getting another x-ray. Unfortunately different angle showed bigger gap between the bones so getting it pinned next Wednesday...

[foo on patrol]

Get ya trainer set up Dalai so you can just sit on it and ride.

What will be your recovery time six weeks or more seeing as we are coming into colder months?

Foo

[dalai47]

Already got the okay from the surgeon (was the first question I asked ) to roll the legs on the trainer now as long as I don't weight the arm. So will set it up today...

Hope 6 weeks max for the recovery, but I have already booked in to see the surgeon 2 weeks after to check how it is healing. Will know more then.

[foo on patrol]

Good luck with it.

Foo

[ironhanglider]

The Heavy Tandem goes track racing!

One or two of you may have followed the Heavy Tandem thread for the last little while in the Road sub-forum. However we have now entered a new era for us by doing some track racing. I wondered about whether to start a new thread, but in the end I think that I will try and keep the track reports to the track report thread.

However I think that there is some background that needs to be filled in. I have been racing with John on a road tandem for a while with the ACTVets Cycling Club. There have been a few other tandems racing with the club over the last four years. Whilst at first we don't possess a great power/weight ratio (220kg/not much power) we are pretty competent at handling a bike and had settled into racing initially in F grade. This year I have dropped some weight, John has been doing some more miles and we are now up to D grade. Until this year there was no opportunity to even contemplate track racing. This year the ducks have lined up better and we might be able to give it a go.


October 15 2014

Well after a familiarisation session on the track bike at Stromlo, we took the bike to the velodrome on track night. Unfortunately we weren't able to get there early enough to have any sort of warm up, but this session was more about familiarisation than actual racing. We signed on in A grade, but with a total of 18 others there, it is not like it was a particularly hot field. This is the first time many of the riders had ever ridden on a banked track, since previously the track racing was on an old 1/4 mile flat track around an oval in Queanbeyan. The Bundahdome track is fairly intimidating for newcomers too, since it is too steep in my opinion. My feeling is that you should be perpendicular to the track at a reasonable race speed, and therefore on the right side of your tyres when slow, and the left side of the tyres when fast. On Wednesday we didn't even get to the middle of the tread.

Until this season the ACTVCC have done track racing at an old 1/4 mile flat track around an oval in Queanbeyan on a Thursday night with road bike and track bike divisions. This year they have changed venue to the National Capital Velodrome, known locally as the Bundahdome on a Wednesday evening. The Bundahdome is a more intimidating prospect for novices but I think that it is much safer on a number of fronts. However it is not perfect. If I were asked to design a velodrome I would try and calculate the banking such that riders at an ordinary race speed would be perpendicular to the track. Naturally the nature of the track, location, wind, surface etc would affect the designed speed however I think that the design speed should be somewhere around 45-45 on a typical outdoor concrete track, and 50-55 for an indoor wooden track. I don't know what the design speed is for the Bundahdome but I haven't been able to reach it yet. When I last raced there in the 80s every week there would be someone who would ride too slowly on the bank, touch their right pedal to the surface and slide down to the derision of onlookers. I think that it is better now mainly as the result of modern pedals offering better lean angles.

Given that the track is intimidating the club has eased slowly into racing. The first session was just a come and try, to simply do some laps, and gather email addresses etc. This week was restricted to a short session of riding in a small group to get used to swinging up, and then back on to the bunch. A two lap TT starting from the fence, and an 8 lap scratch race. We put ourselves in A grade but don't think that this in any way compares to a 'real' A grade, with a total of only 18 other riders there is not a lot of depth.

Not having practiced starts off the fence, or even standing starts on a velodrome before, we were always going to be behind the 8 ball for the two lap TT. sure enough we were the slowest of the A grade group, but I was very pleased to see that we were faster than all of the B grade group.

For the scratch race we lined up at the back and as is my lot that put us behind Ally. Whilst she is a good rider, she is pint-sized and offers hardly any shelter. They started off with full lap turns which put 4 riders behind us, however then some gaps started opening up from a couple of riders ahead of us. Thereafter a couple of riders slotted back in in front and as the laps counted down I could sense some nervousness behind, as people knew that they were out of position and would have to make a move to get back into contention. We weren't about to launch though, partly because we were a bit under geared and were running out of top end speed as the pace picked up, but mostly because we were mostly out there for the experience, and with it being John's first time on a velodrome I was happy to simply be in the action, without the need to be silly about it. Sure enough two started to come through from the back with 2 laps to go. We started to find some space at the bell, and whilst we got alongside Ally's hip in the back straight, the race was being decided ahead of us. We weren't able to get past Ally be we finished 3 wide with a couple of riders behind us.

We did wonder how we'd be accepted but no-one so much as raised an eyebrow, and more to the point there was lots of "see you next week"s being said at the end. We'll be returning hungry for more. (and probably with a bigger gear).

Cheers,

Cameron

[foo on patrol]

Good stuff Cameron, you'll get there with more practice.

Foo

[ironhanglider]

22 October - The Bundahdome

Well we got there, but not a lot happened...

The night started well. We got out to the track before the 1800 kick off with enough time to at least put the bike together and get changed, but not enough to get onto the track. During the week a parcel arrived, and I'd managed to put a 15T cog on rather than the 16T to give us a bit more top end speed. I don't know if it is just my pedalling gone to rubbish, the combination us or what, but I used to be comfortable with starting the track season on an 88" and moving up to 90" or 92" for the fast races like a motor pace. Last week with 89.4" I felt we were under geared, so with what I used to consider a massive 95.4" gear on this week we were confident that we had eliminated the under-geared feeling.

We were called up for the opening 8 lap scratch race and we made our way onto the track first and got ourselves sorted on the front. At the off we accelerated smoothly away and took the bunch up to speed. After 3/4 of a lap we swung up, and found that the bunch was strung out like Brown's cows. It took us until the next bend for the back of the bunch to close up enough for us to come down again. After that we slowly moved forward as the others swung off and settled in behind and we were sitting pretty in 4th or 5th wheel behind Anton when Long socks went off the front for a bit of a dig but it was fairly short lived. The response was too much for one who slipped back on the inside, but Anton was closing the gap nicely as far as I was concerned, so we just followed. With 2.5 laps to go there was a bit of hesitation when Long socks swung up and initially no-one wanted to go through but then there was a change of mind and the speed was on again as we came past the lap board with 2 to go. Then coming out of turn 2 we were putting on more pace when <crack>... That was a bad sound what was it? Don't know, it all seems to be working ... until we got to turn 4 when <bang>... Bad time for power failure. The chain had broken so were left freewheeling at high speed as the bunch approached the bell. We just rolled around on the duckboards for another lap before heading for the grass and rolling to a stop. Night over for us.

The rest of the night had a 2 lap handicap based on the times from last week. Due to a (perceived?) reluctance to have riders held for the start, and the impracticality of starting from the fence on the banks, the handicap was started from off the fence with a time gap. The format favoured the limit riders for the moment, but calling the times may have been a little less than accurate. What followed was a Mystery Race of between 5 and 9 laps + 1 after the bell, complete with the bell ringer waving the bell with the donger held such that it wouldn't ring for the first few occasions. The B grade race was particularly good. After a slow start Glen clearly had got bored, so he charged off in the hope of an early bell. It didn't come and the race behind broke down into a trio, another pair and the also-rans. When Glen got the bell he had already started to run out of steam, Craig burst out of the stragglers to finally get past him at the start of the finish straight to be a clear winner with Glen barely hanging on for second having made all the running.

The post mortem on the chain showed that it was the joining link that had let go. The head of one of the pins had partly sheared off and pulled through the narrow part of the keyhole. We have had a joining link fail on the road before, but that was in the process of changing chainrings with a heavy side load and an old chain. I'd gone to some effort to get these chains in line so that was not going to be an issue here or so I thought. It looks as if we simply found the weakest link. It now looks as if I'll have to join the chain with an old style outer link with straight pins using a chain breaker, since a classic 3 piece joiner will be too wide.

Just to rub it in there will be a break of 2 weeks whilst some repairs are carried out, so no more track racing for a while. On the bright side the big gear was ticking along pretty well while it lasted, so we might keep it on.

I don't know whether it is just a tandem thing to use big gears, but I did talk about gears with our local Commonwealth Medalists about what they used for the kilo and the sprint in Glasgow. In the order of 108" for the women and 112" for the men. I can barely imagine trying to push those gears off a standing start. Mind you I don't have any expectation of challenging them for a spot in Rio either. Sadly there is no sprint in Rio, only Kilo, pursuit, and road, so the sprinter types will be spending the next year and a bit getting ready for just over a minute of racing.

Cheers,

Cameron

[foo on patrol]

Lucky that you were sitting when it let go, Cameron.

Foo

[ironhanglider]

We were lucky Foo although we don't get out of the saddle much, mainly because that has to be coordinated, so the instinctive little standing bursts are not in our repertoire at this stage. I have once seen a chain break and get jammed in the rear wheel causing it to lock up, and also in the process pushing the tyre off. The rider had to get down from the banking on just his rim and did the next half lap on the duckboards with a trail of sparks behind. It was an impressive feat of bike handling. (This was Rod Price who was a decent trackie of the late 70's - 80's).

5 November - ACTVCC - Bundahdome

Another day at the races, another adventure.

We got there in enough time to set up, register etc, but not quite get onto the track before they called an end to the warm up. We had hopes that the chain dramas were behind us. The first race was just an 8 lap scratch race, with the main event for the night to be a 20 lap points race, and an Italian pursuit for a bit of fun. We lined up at the back of the field for the scratch race. Sadly half a lap in we had a similar but quieter bang noise to last time from the chain/s We pressed on hoping that it was isolated but it continued intermittently for the rest of the race. As the race panned out we found ourselves at second wheel at the bell, but were unable to produce any more speed, so we got swallowed up in the crowd down the back straight and finished 7th in the end.

Afterwards an inspection revealed that the drive chain was a fraction looser than I usually run it, and one of the straight pins in the link that I had used as a joiner was sticking out just a bit further than it should, so I pushed it a bit further over, and pulled the wheel a bit further back before the start of the points race hoping that we had it solved. No dice. The race had barely started when we got the same noise again, so we gracefully slid out the back and withdrew. We stayed in the centre and I did my best to provide a commentary, which is a it hard when I know so few of the riders names.

We did get on to the track again after the racing was over because I wanted to do some low speed testing down the bottom to find out how slow we can ride before we ground a pedal. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was slower than I thought which may be useful if we need to stay high on the track.


End of race report, now for the tech.

Not surprisingly I had a good look at the chains after that. I am now pretty sure that the noise came from the two chains clashing and getting caught against each other. We are running a right side drive with some old 105 double cranks for the stoker. There is not a lot of space to run two chains beside each other on a double so we were using narrow chains (9spd) which looked to have sufficient clearance when unloaded. Not a lot but enough. The 105 cranks were intended to be used with a 113 square taper BB spindle, and the interwebs told me that a 107mm BB spindle would give me a good chainline with a chainring in the outside position. Apparently not. Examination revealed that the cog lines up better with the inner ring or at least the gap in between, so the chain was on an angle. This may have been enough to drag the drive chain a little inward under load to cause it to foul the synch chain, especially for the links with the pins that stick out that bit further.

Problem identified, now how to solve it...

I could use washers to space the rings further apart, but to put them on the inside of the spider would likely cause the sync chain to rub against the frame (it goes around the back of the chainring and is pretty close now). If I used them on the outside of the spider that would only make the chainline worse and I don't want to do that. (I could solve the chainline by re-spacing the hub and dishing the wheel but I'm reluctant to do that either).

I could swap the rings over and have the sync chain on the outside, which could give me lots more room to play with, but I'd have to put in a longer BB because the bigger chainring would definitely foul the frame. The extra space would let me put a regular 1/8" chain on for the drive chain. The problem with this approach is that it would put the sync chain much further away from the centreline of the bike and having the sync chain outboard puts more twisting force into the frame, and whilst not a complete noodle this bike does flex noticeably as it is.

I could also revert to a 'conventional' crossover drive with the sync chain on the left. This would let me solve all the chain issues in one go. The problem is that proper tandem cranksets in 165mm length are both rare and expensive and commonly only available in 110mm BCD. Special tandem track cranks do exist but are obscenely expensive and I couldn't get them in a hurry even if I wanted to.

However typically I've decided to do a cobbled together crankset with backward pedals and loctite. If that sounds odd, it is because cranks with spiders normally have right hand threads, but cranks on the left side of a bike have left hand threads. To swap the cranks from one side to the other means that the threads are in the wrong direction hence the loctite and a long pedal spanner. The other issue is that pedals come in a left and right. Fortunately the pedals I have are capable of being disassembled, which means that I can reassemble them with the right hand threaded spindle in the left pedal (and vice versa in front) in order to screw them into the cranks. By going down this route we can get away with only having to buy 1 regular crankset, and a pair of pedals. (this is because the stokers cranks will have two right hand threads). John already had a pair of identical pedals on his wind trainer, so that will provide the extra right hand threaded pedal spindle. The extra pedals for the trainer will be a pair of spds because that's what john has on his road tandem during the week. I have already ordered a 165mm crankset with a 144mm BCD which will let me use my existing track chainrings and cogs with a 1/8" chain, this will also open up the gear choices a bit.

If the new crank arrives soon I might be able to get it all up and running by next Wednesday and hopefully provide a more complete race report for a change.

Cheers,

Cameron

[ironhanglider]

Well the new cranks and tyres arrived and duly got fitted, as did the modified pedals so against the odds we managed to get out and race today. I wasn't quite happy with the 50T chainring I had and the way it fitted onto the new crank, so I tossed a coin and came down with putting the 51T on.

However the chains are now straight and the traditionalists can relax now that we are using a 1/8" drive chain. The bike is now running quietly too, except for a wheel speed tick, which I'm guessing is to do with a valve moving in the rim.

Wednesday 12 November: Bundahdome

First on the menu tonight was a 10 lap scratch race. With no warm-up there were no expectations. We did find out instantly that we were slow off the fence and a big gap opened upbefore we even got to the first bend. We didn't panic because were were confident of chasing them down, however a nervous Nelly behind us decided that they needed to close the gap now! There were now 5 riders in front of us with another 8 or so behind. A couple of surges and full lap turns and we found ourselves on the front with 5 laps to go. Having done our bit we pulled up and with no gaps big enough for us we dropped back to the tail. At the bell there was still a gaggle in front of us with us having neither the speed nor the space to work our way through. We hung in there at the tail though to at least finish for a change.

Next was a 4 lap handicap. We were given a mark of 17s with a group of 3 at 15s I don't know the other marks except the backmarker was on 8s. Given our poor start in the previous race I hoped for better, but it didn't happen. I was planning on swinging up at the end of the back straight to go looking for the back of the trio, but a quick glance showed that Ally was already coming round us so that idea got shelved. Ally did her bit on the front and swung up to leave us back on the front with 2 to go. A glance at the shadows told me that there were enough riders on our wheel that there was no option to go looking for any help, so we set to work to try and at least make it as quick as we could. Not surprisingly there were still all there strung out behind us at the bell. We wound it up as best we could, but we got well and truly jumped in the final bend, by two riders, wiith Al third just sneaking past at the death for third by about half a wheel.

3rd on the programme was a win-and-out race. The format was new to me with a couple of laps to get organised followed by a sprint every second lap down to 4th. At the start we again found ourselves off the back, but we remedied that in time for Al to do a flyer off the front just before coming to the bell. Some disappointed sighs around me suggested that the others had decided that there was no point in chasing. We made no such decision and did make some good ground before only getting up to Al's back wheel by the line. This now left us on the front and even with a small gap, however we were easily picked up by the chasing riders before the next bell. Just like the first race we really couldn't accelerate fast enough to put the others under pressure, so we simply led out got rolled, and found ourselves on the front again at the next bell. Rinse and repeat, 4 sprints, 4 second places, three failed attempts to lead out from the front.

Finally was an all-in scratch race. We had lined up mid field so after our poor start (again) had allowed a gap to open there was a group off the front and another group with us at the front further back. This time we were able to swing up and get to the back, so we were able to follow wheels for a while. By this time both groups were starting to fracture, so we were picking up stragglers as we went. Then with 2 laps to go we moved toward the front again. At the bell we set sail after the leaders and actually made quite a lot of ground in the last lap, but it was too little, too late.

However we were at least in amoungst it today and finished every race that we started, so despite no results to speak of, we were well satisfied. We might have a try with a smaller gear next week though.

Cheers,

Cameron

[foo on patrol]

Well the new cranks and tyres arrived and duly got fitted, as did the modified pedals so against the odds we managed to get out and race today. I wasn't quite happy with the 50T chainring I had and the way it fitted onto the new crank, so I tossed a coin and came down with putting the 51T on.

However the chains are now straight and the traditionalists can relax now that we are using a 1/8" drive chain. The bike is now running quietly too, except for a wheel speed tick, which I'm guessing is to do with a valve moving in the rim.

Wednesday 12 November: Bundahdome

First on the menu tonight was a 10 lap scratch race. With no warm-up there were no expectations. We did find out instantly that we were slow off the fence and a big gap opened upbefore we even got to the first bend. We didn't panic because were were confident of chasing them down, however a nervous Nelly behind us decided that they needed to close the gap now! There were now 5 riders in front of us with another 8 or so behind. A couple of surges and full lap turns and we found ourselves on the front with 5 laps to go. Having done our bit we pulled up and with no gaps big enough for us we dropped back to the tail. At the bell there was still a gaggle in front of us with us having neither the speed nor the space to work our way through. We hung in there at the tail though to at least finish for a change.

Next was a 4 lap handicap. We were given a mark of 17s with a group of 3 at 15s I don't know the other marks except the backmarker was on 8s. Given our poor start in the previous race I hoped for better, but it didn't happen. I was planning on swinging up at the end of the back straight to go looking for the back of the trio, but a quick glance showed that Ally was already coming round us so that idea got shelved. Ally did her bit on the front and swung up to leave us back on the front with 2 to go. A glance at the shadows told me that there were enough riders on our wheel that there was no option to go looking for any help, so we set to work to try and at least make it as quick as we could. Not surprisingly there were still all there strung out behind us at the bell. We wound it up as best we could, but we got well and truly jumped in the final bend, by two riders, wiith Al third just sneaking past at the death for third by about half a wheel.

3rd on the programme was a win-and-out race. The format was new to me with a couple of laps to get organised followed by a sprint every second lap down to 4th. At the start we again found ourselves off the back, but we remedied that in time for Al to do a flyer off the front just before coming to the bell. Some disappointed sighs around me suggested that the others had decided that there was no point in chasing. We made no such decision and did make some good ground before only getting up to Al's back wheel by the line. This now left us on the front and even with a small gap, however we were easily picked up by the chasing riders before the next bell. Just like the first race we really couldn't accelerate fast enough to put the others under pressure, so we simply led out got rolled, and found ourselves on the front again at the next bell. Rinse and repeat, 4 sprints, 4 second places, three failed attempts to lead out from the front.

Finally was an all-in scratch race. We had lined up mid field so after our poor start (again) had allowed a gap to open there was a group off the front and another group with us at the front further back. This time we were able to swing up and get to the back, so we were able to follow wheels for a while. By this time both groups were starting to fracture, so we were picking up stragglers as we went. Then with 2 laps to go we moved toward the front again. At the bell we set sail after the leaders and actually made quite a lot of ground in the last lap, but it was too little, too late.

However we were at least in amoungst it today and finished every race that we started, so despite no results to speak of, we were well satisfied. We might have a try with a smaller gear next week though.

Cheers,

Cameron

What is this seconds? We raced off mtrs on the Track when I raced.

This was called a Miss N Out in my day.

What size gear were you on Cameron?

Don't be in a hurry for results yet, hone your handling and riding skills on the Track first so you have everything perfect, then stick it to them.

Foo

[mikesbytes]

Foo, the win-and-out race is where the winner wins the first sprint, the remainder stay on the track for the second sprint and the winner of that sprint takes second, the remainder stay out....

[KGB]

An alternative version of the win n out is where there first sprint is for 5th, next for 4th, then third etc. Much more tactical as riders either sit back and risk it all or get more and more despo as the springs go by. Anyone left that doesn't Einstein the final sprint is effectively last.

[Derny Driver]

What is this seconds? We raced off mtrs on the Track when I raced.

Foo

Well foo you must be in the international /european / uci mindset of track racing.
Here in Australia we have lots of silly made-up circus races now.

Snowballs, win'n'outs, one lap screamers, time blasters, mystery races ....
"Wheelraces" too are an aussie invention but Ive never seen one handicapped with time rather than metres.

PS I have tickets for the Austral wheelrace and the Australian madison championships in Melbourne next month.

[mikesbytes]

An alternative version of the win n out is where there first sprint is for 5th, next for 4th, then third etc. Much more tactical as riders either sit back and risk it all or get more and more despo as the springs go by. Anyone left that doesn't Einstein the final sprint is effectively last.

Ah haven't done that one. Would be funny if no one want's 5th trying to track stand before the finish line

[bigfriendlyvegan]

An alternative version of the win n out is where there first sprint is for 5th, next for 4th, then third etc. Much more tactical as riders either sit back and risk it all or get more and more despo as the springs go by. Anyone left that doesn't Einstein the final sprint is effectively last.

Belgian win and out. We did one the other week at Lidcombe. Great fun and a different strategy to play.

[ironhanglider]

What is this seconds? We raced off mtrs on the Track when I raced.

This was called a Miss N Out in my day.

What size gear were you on Cameron?

Don't be in a hurry for results yet, hone your handling and riding skills on the Track first so you have everything perfect, then stick it to them.

Foo

Damn internet connection, lost my reply...

Traditional handicaps rely on having people to hold up the riders, apparently there has been reluctance to do this in the past (from riders or holders I'm not sure). This track is too steep to start from the fence in the bends so having everyone start off the fence in the home straight is a workable solution.

I'm sure we'll race a traditional elimination sooner or later. I don't think that that format will do us any favours since our opponents will only have to gain a single bike length to get past us, yet we'll have to gain a tandem bike length to get past someone else. I suspect that we'd have to ride from the front until we get picked off at leisure.

We were on a 98", which was too big. Our first outing was on a 90" which was too small. Next week we'll have a go with a 94.5" I think. I did most of my track racing on a 90" with a 92" as my big gear for the fast races. John's max cadence is a bit lower than mine and his pedalling action is far from smooth. I'm still encouraging him to get a proper bike fit done partly to determine whether he can be smoothed out with a better position, or by some training drills.

We're still getting used to the dynamics on the track and we are working on communication. It is difficult for John to tell when I am talking (barking orders) to others or to him. Once as we were approaching another rider rapidly, I shouted at him to stay down, all of a sudden John eased off. We are also a bit hampered with regard to getting out of the saddle. On the road I announce when we need to do it, then 'ready ... up'. This amount of coordination takes far too long on the track, and there's certainly no element of surprise. The instinctive little bursts of acceleration where you bounce out of the seat for 5 pedal turns are not part of our repertoire. If we can work on it, it will make a difference to our woeful acceleration.

Cheers,

Cameron

[mikesbytes]

Anyone know of any videos from the Clarence st Cup? I came away from the event with an inflamed muscle that took a week to get better and I want to look at my riding on that night

[mikesbytes]

Anyone know of any videos from the Clarence st Cup? I came away from the event with an inflamed muscle that took a week to get better and I want to look at my riding on that night

Becoming harder to find that I thought, Crafty doesn't know who's got one

[Row-D]

Try this: http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=yout ... D-xXz7kil0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;