The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby cerb » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:56 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby cerb » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:10 am
I end up doing a bit more high-Tempo work and a bit less Threshold work, but have the added effect of some over-unders thown in to get some VO2 and anaerobic build going on too. I also get a higher training load from a race than I do from a HIIT session, as there aren't the rest periods between intervals.
I have always thought that racing is a great way to train for racing, but have never had the time to get out for more than one race per week...
Thoughts on 2x weekly zwift races each week instead of 2x 'traditional' HIIT sessions as training for crits (only crits)? Will I be missing anything doing this?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby jules21 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:30 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby jules21 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:32 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby march83 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:48 am
I guess I should plan some crits while i'm on a hot streak?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby g-boaf » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:00 pm
That's a nice w/kg. I wish I can do very little and manage that - but that's not happening.march83 wrote:After doing almost nothing but commuting for the past few months, with my performance manager absolutely flat-lining, my injuries all making themselves known and just generally being quite tired (not enough food, too much uni + work), i seem to have accidentally stumbled upon a nice bit of form. last weekend, I knocked a few seconds off my PB up a local climb with 5.91w/kg for 5 minutes, then last night I posted a season best 20 minute FTP test of 4.96w/kg.
I guess I should plan some crits while i'm on a hot streak?
I've swapped things around a bit and have two rest days together, that's working pretty well.
Haven't decided what else I'm doing in terms of riding so far outside of just whatever weekend riding I want to do, but I've got a few overseas trips planned, one or two in Europe (particularly France and Switzerland) and one a bit closer to home.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby cerb » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:21 pm
March83 - nice one! That's massive! Are you a relative lightweight by any chance? I'm nowhere near that level, but my FTP would need to be over 450W to hit 5W/kg, which is never going to happen...
I'm 6'4" (race weight is 86-87kg and at that weight, I don't have much to lose) and it feels like it's physiologically easier for shorter people who can attain a much lower body mass to be able to reach high W/kg. I see plenty of 'shorter' people generate 300-350W FTP, which leads to those sorts of W/kg numbers. But (non-pro) FTP above 400W is pretty unrealistic, which means i'm destined to never get much over 4W/kg FTP....
I guess this the real reason I stick to crits - W/kg is less of an issue as pure output reigns.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby ft_critical » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:27 pm
I have been doing a few Zwift races. It is great racing but a depressing reality check. At 3.7w/kg FTP I am just mid-pack B grade in the big Euro races. Zwift recognises the pure watts affect, so bigger riders get a benefit at the same w/kg. Doubly bad for me then at a lowish absolute output.cerb wrote:Sorry to hear about the crash and subsequent DNS Jules. Did too much TSS send you OTB?
March83 - nice one! That's massive! Are you a relative lightweight by any chance? I'm nowhere near that level, but my FTP would need to be over 450W to hit 5W/kg, which is never going to happen...
I'm 6'4" (race weight is 86-87kg and at that weight, I don't have much to lose) and it feels like it's physiologically easier for shorter people who can attain a much lower body mass to be able to reach high W/kg. I see plenty of 'shorter' people generate 300-350W FTP, which leads to those sorts of W/kg numbers. But (non-pro) FTP above 400W is pretty unrealistic, which means i'm destined to never get much over 4W/kg FTP....
I guess this the real reason I stick to crits - W/kg is less of an issue as pure output reigns.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby jules21 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:16 pm
I raced cerb. turns out sore thumb is not too bad on a roadie on the hoods and drops. but still spoiled it a bit.cerb wrote:Sorry to hear about the crash and subsequent DNS Jules. Did too much TSS send you OTB?
there are road races you would be competitive in. footscray run some flat winter road races out west, e.g. Little River, Balliang. you'd do well in the VRS Tour of South West and of course there's the Warny but you need lots of time to train for thatcerb wrote:I guess this the real reason I stick to crits - W/kg is less of an issue as pure output reigns.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby jules21 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:18 pm
you've got to take Zwift with a grain of salt though. easy to drop weight on Zwift. also it obviously doesn't adjust for PM error. you need to enjoy it for what it is, rather than compare yourself with others.ft_critical wrote:I have been doing a few Zwift races. It is great racing but a depressing reality check. At 3.7w/kg FTP I am just mid-pack B grade in the big Euro races. Zwift recognises the pure watts affect, so bigger riders get a benefit at the same w/kg. Doubly bad for me then at a lowish absolute output.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby RichB » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:52 pm
Very easy and too tempting for some, coincidentally I've never bumped into so many sub-65kg people in my life.jules21 wrote: you've got to take Zwift with a grain of salt though. easy to drop weight on Zwift. also it obviously doesn't adjust for PM error. you need to enjoy it for what it is, rather than compare yourself with others.
I compare current results with old, and also gauge how I'm going against usual suspects in the races though I don't put too much in that either tbh. I generally ignore anybody these days if I don't know them or haven't raced them previously.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby march83 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:04 am
Currently bouncing between 80 and 85kg (AT) 6'1". If I could escape some of the stress in my life (uni, work, kids) and spend a few months focusing on getting weight down there's really no reason why I couldn't be in the mid-high 70s.cerb wrote:March83 - nice one! That's massive! Are you a relative lightweight by any chance? I'm nowhere near that level, but my FTP would need to be over 450W to hit 5W/kg, which is never going to happen...
I'm 6'4" (race weight is 86-87kg and at that weight, I don't have much to lose) and it feels like it's physiologically easier for shorter people who can attain a much lower body mass to be able to reach high W/kg. I see plenty of 'shorter' people generate 300-350W FTP, which leads to those sorts of W/kg numbers. But (non-pro) FTP above 400W is pretty unrealistic, which means i'm destined to never get much over 4W/kg FTP....
I guess this the real reason I stick to crits - W/kg is less of an issue as pure output reigns.
This last 20 minute test was at 412W but TBH it wasn't a proper test because it wasn't a 100% effort - I started slowly thinking I would be happy to just do 400W, and I didn't destroy myself in the last few minutes to finish it so I probably left a few watts on the table. That's not to say that it wasn't really, really tough, it just wasn't truly maximal. I can do 425 on my day I think.
I'm just really surprised that despite being pretty stressed, eating strangely (deficit all week, surplus on the weekend) and not doing any training which is particularly intense or structured I'm still maintaining a pretty high level. All I'm really doing at the moment is maybe 2 or 3 hours of sweet spot a week if i'm lucky and the rest of my kays are short, stop-start commutes with relatively low intensity.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby jules21 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:30 am
yep. I don't even bother with power-ups most of the time. it's just training - the harder the better.RichB wrote:Very easy and too tempting for some, coincidentally I've never bumped into so many sub-65kg people in my life.
that's quite a lot of powermarch83 wrote:This last 20 minute test was at 412W
anyway, my training is suffering right now due to 1 of our dogs who has taken to jumping on the bed in the middle of the night, then growling at me when I move my feet and interrupt her sleep.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby cerb » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:34 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby g-boaf » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:42 am
March, that is enormous. You are clearly doing things the right way to get that sort of power. Respect!march83 wrote:Thanks gents.
Currently bouncing between 80 and 85kg (AT) 6'1". If I could escape some of the stress in my life (uni, work, kids) and spend a few months focusing on getting weight down there's really no reason why I couldn't be in the mid-high 70s.cerb wrote:March83 - nice one! That's massive! Are you a relative lightweight by any chance? I'm nowhere near that level, but my FTP would need to be over 450W to hit 5W/kg, which is never going to happen...
I'm 6'4" (race weight is 86-87kg and at that weight, I don't have much to lose) and it feels like it's physiologically easier for shorter people who can attain a much lower body mass to be able to reach high W/kg. I see plenty of 'shorter' people generate 300-350W FTP, which leads to those sorts of W/kg numbers. But (non-pro) FTP above 400W is pretty unrealistic, which means i'm destined to never get much over 4W/kg FTP....
I guess this the real reason I stick to crits - W/kg is less of an issue as pure output reigns.
This last 20 minute test was at 412W but TBH it wasn't a proper test because it wasn't a 100% effort - I started slowly thinking I would be happy to just do 400W, and I didn't destroy myself in the last few minutes to finish it so I probably left a few watts on the table. That's not to say that it wasn't really, really tough, it just wasn't truly maximal. I can do 425 on my day I think.
I'm just really surprised that despite being pretty stressed, eating strangely (deficit all week, surplus on the weekend) and not doing any training which is particularly intense or structured I'm still maintaining a pretty high level. All I'm really doing at the moment is maybe 2 or 3 hours of sweet spot a week if i'm lucky and the rest of my kays are short, stop-start commutes with relatively low intensity.
Well, you are talking to one now. I can get lower than 60kg if I eat properly and ride a lot.RichB wrote:Very easy and too tempting for some, coincidentally I've never bumped into so many sub-65kg people in my life.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby ft_critical » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:42 pm
Take it with a grain of salt,maybe. I am coming to the inevitable conclusion that there are some people with massive natural ability. Look at March above 5.3w/kg on 2hrs of sweet spot and commutes. I managed 3.9w/kg on the 20 min Zwift climb for 8th of 22 in B grade, 2min down on the winner in a one hour race. Of course I still find it rewarding otherwise I wouldn't do it. But exposure to the global gene pool is still confronting.RichB wrote:Very easy and too tempting for some, coincidentally I've never bumped into so many sub-65kg people in my life.jules21 wrote: you've got to take Zwift with a grain of salt though. easy to drop weight on Zwift. also it obviously doesn't adjust for PM error. you need to enjoy it for what it is, rather than compare yourself with others.
I compare current results with old, and also gauge how I'm going against usual suspects in the races though I don't put too much in that either tbh. I generally ignore anybody these days if I don't know them or haven't raced them previously.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby andrewjcw » Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:30 pm
There's natural ability and there's hard work. Both are factors in any success. Humans have a tendency to attribute all their own success to hard work and all other's achievement to natural ability. Anyone > 5w/kg has had a lot of quantity and quality of riding. You have to remember some people's commutes are better training than other's coach developed training programs. There's also a big difference between developing fitness and retaining it. There's also the matter of not everyone that says they have 5w/kg ftp actually has (although I wouldn't ever bring that up without good reason).ft_critical wrote:I am coming to the inevitable conclusion that there are some people with massive natural ability. Look at March above 5.3w/kg on 2hrs of sweet spot and commutes. I managed 3.9w/kg on the 20 min Zwift climb for 8th of 22 in B grade, 2min down on the winner in a one hour race. Of course I still find it rewarding otherwise I wouldn't do it. But exposure to the global gene pool is still confronting.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby ft_critical » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:13 pm
Andrew, I understand the generalisation you are making. It isn't true in my case, far from it. I have raced for many years and chipped away at 'all' the things that hold me back. One thing I have noticed through all this is that I can control many of the attributes required for success; diet, fatigue, peaking, mind, time, weight, environment, equipment, coaching, race position, race craft etc, but I can't move my trained optimum key outputs much at all; FTP, 5min, 5s power etc.andrewjcw wrote:Humans have a tendency to attribute all their own success to hard work and all other's achievement to natural ability.
I guess, because I am not a professional rider, I can accept these limitations and continue on. It took a while to reach that attitude by-the- way. In club, state and national comps you see it, but I think because you can see all the data real time and the pool of people racing is larger, Zwift just makes the differences much more obvious.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby RichB » Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:38 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby g-boaf » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:28 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby RichB » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:58 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby g-boaf » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:09 pm
4.55 for the hour.RichB wrote:Nice one g-boaf, what sort of w/kg does that equate to?
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby RichB » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:32 pm
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby g-boaf » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:53 pm
There were some fast people on Zwift today.
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Re: The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)
Postby tomee » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:43 am
Due to time constraints i've had to cut back commuting to work which in my mind makes me stress less as i hate riding on roads during weekdays.
I've never done a structured plan but i like having something to follow and stick to.
Only a week into it and i've adjusted my sleep so i now wake up at 5am to perform the workouts.
I've gone low volume first as i wanted to see how my body responds to the training stress.
anyone else done a TR plan and seen good progress?
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