Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Crawf
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Crawf » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:10 pm

Bluejay87 wrote:
Crawf wrote:Would you be missing out on anything if you purchased one second hand? i.e would you not get any of virtual training stuff? I'm not sure what comes bundled with it for a first time purchaser?
Only thing to check would be warranty. There is no software bundles.
Thanks.
Picking up a used one :)

Bluejay87
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Bluejay87 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:51 pm

Crawf wrote:
Bluejay87 wrote:
Crawf wrote:Would you be missing out on anything if you purchased one second hand? i.e would you not get any of virtual training stuff? I'm not sure what comes bundled with it for a first time purchaser?
Only thing to check would be warranty. There is no software bundles.
Thanks.
Picking up a used one :)
What did they charge you? Generally seem to hold their value well

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cancan64
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby cancan64 » Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:53 pm

I purchased mine 2nd hand...i just checked that the firmware was up to date and away i went...
“Some say he isn’t machine washable, and all his potted plants are called ‘Steve’.

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Xplora
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:11 am

Ok team, I just bought a kickr. I have an iPad2,iphone5,old school iMac and use a power meter, a Garmin 800 and golden cheetah. I just want to do steady state intervals over 30s to 20m long. Nothing complicated. What do I do?

vosadrian
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby vosadrian » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:29 am

The Wahoo app in ERG mode is good if you are happy to alter the ERG power manually while riding. If you want to put an interval workout that changes the power automatically (so you are just a hard working passenger on the pain train), then it is not the best. HurtsERG is a good free app for your iphone that will do that, but we have found it can cause occasional ANT dropouts if you are recording the workout on a garmin. With Hurts ERG you can set up your own workouts or use preset ones. Just set your FTP and press start and it controls the ERG power.

Then there is Zwift... pay a subscription but it will now do ERG interval training sessions. There are a bunch of other options also that cost money.

The KICKR in ERG mode is a great workout. You have no choice. You either do the commanded power or you grind to a halt. It is also a great way to train high cadence, as the same power in ERG mode always feels a bit easier in higher cadence. I think ERG mode is the best training... simulations modes (like Zwift normally) require the rider to set the amount of effort, so the training level is more dependant on individual motivations (so some people over train and others under).

Bluejay87
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Bluejay87 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:33 am

I'd encourage you to try Zwift for steady state intervals. Just something extra to watch to keep motivation up. Also does a reasonably accurate job of logging the kms for your efforts on strava . You get 2 free months if you are strava premium member. You will need a PC and ant+ dongle though.

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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Bluejay87 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am

Sorry missed where you said you had iMac. Not sure on the specs of that or whether it'll be enough for Zwift.

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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby vosadrian » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:37 am

We use Zwift on a ~2012 iMac.

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Xplora
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:24 pm

Why the conflict with BT/iphone and Ant/garmin at the same time?

No way I am doing Zwift, or trainerroad. Just not necessary for me. Heck I can get sufferfest files free... Sounds like I just need to give hurts ergo a run. Golden Cheetah looks good too... But then I need the PC nearby!

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kb
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby kb » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:53 pm

Xplora wrote:Why the conflict with BT/iphone and Ant/garmin at the same time?

No way I am doing Zwift, or trainerroad. Just not necessary for me. Heck I can get sufferfest files free... Sounds like I just need to give hurts ergo a run. Golden Cheetah looks good too... But then I need the PC nearby!
You also need to upgrade the Kickr firmware to support the ANT+ FE profile if you want to use Erg mode with Golden Cheetah. Hurts ergo works.
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby vosadrian » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:28 pm

Xplora wrote:Why the conflict with BT/iphone and Ant/garmin at the same time?

No way I am doing Zwift, or trainerroad. Just not necessary for me. Heck I can get sufferfest files free... Sounds like I just need to give hurts ergo a run. Golden Cheetah looks good too... But then I need the PC nearby!
KICKR can do ANT and BT at the same time, but when you are using Hurts Ergo with a garmin, it is using both. It seems that Hurts Ergo may overload the KICKR with commanded BT power messages and it then sometimes skips sending ANT messages to the garmin. This seemed to only happen on the later version of KICKR firmware. The earlier one did not have an issue. All it means is that your garmin will autopause from time to time and sometimes it would get a run of constant stop start for 15-20 seconds which could be annoying. It would throw out averages for speed/power etc. Note that you can upload directly from Hurts ergo to Strava, but you will not get cadence and HR data in your activity. If you record with a garmin you can get cadence/HR/speed/power.

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Xplora
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:08 pm

It's making a strong case for golden cheetah right now.

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kb
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby kb » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:50 am

vosadrian wrote: KICKR can do ANT and BT at the same time, but when you are using Hurts Ergo with a garmin, it is using both. It seems that Hurts Ergo may overload the KICKR with commanded BT power messages and it then sometimes skips sending ANT messages to the garmin. This seemed to only happen on the later version of KICKR firmware. The earlier one did not have an issue. All it means is that your garmin will autopause from time to time and sometimes it would get a run of constant stop start for 15-20 seconds which could be annoying. It would throw out averages for speed/power etc. Note that you can upload directly from Hurts ergo to Strava, but you will not get cadence and HR data in your activity. If you record with a garmin you can get cadence/HR/speed/power.
Interesting. I've had those speed issues with trainerroad on the iPhone but hadn't twigged to the cause. I guess the other option is wahoo sensors which can transmit BT or ANT
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kb
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby kb » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:53 am

Xplora wrote:It's making a strong case for golden cheetah right now.
Especially longer term. The workout editor is fun to play with but doesn't save yet :-). Mark has a couple of new tutorial videos up. Not sure if there are any dev releases scheduled though.
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby vosadrian » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:22 am

I suspect the issue with ANT dropouts when using some apps commanding BT will be fixed with firmware updates at some point, but I believe it is still an issue with current KICKR firmware (not beta).

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Xplora
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:32 am

The hurts ergo looks like a winner, and gets around a few issues. Would be best to save as a .fit file... But no HR? Wahoo's app is way behind the competition but it's possible they don't want to catch up!

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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby vosadrian » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:47 pm

You might be able to get cadence and HT using Hurts ergo if you get BT versions of sensors that can connect to the phone and then be recorded by Hurts.... or you can record everything on your garmin like we do, but you may get the dropouts... or may not. We have experienced them with our setup since the KICKR firmware update about 8-10 months ago (and I am not aware of a way to downgrade firmware). I think there is another fairly cheap app that can do intervals, but I have not used that and not sure if it has the same issues as Hurts with the ANT dropouts.

In my case, I hardly every use the KICKR. My wife uses it several times a week. She likes to watch catchup episodes of her TV shows we have recorded on our PVR while on the trainer, so she is not interested in something like Zwift and a phone app is much simpler than getting a PC based setup going (bootup, login, start app, establish connection verse wake up phone and start app in 5 seconds). I think if it was me I would at least try zwift workouts on a free trial and then decide if it is worth the subscription fee.

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Xplora
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:57 pm

I am of a similar opinion to Mrs Vos. Catch up on TV... I am an avowed tightarse tho.

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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Bluejay87 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:35 pm

I can do TV shows on longer enduro trainer rides but anything more intense and I'm in too much pain to concentrate.

Xplora, clearly not that much of a tight ass if you bought a Kickr!

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Xplora
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:24 pm

I buy the cheapest whiskey, Aldi cola, and I don't buy breakfast on the coffee ride :lol:

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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:01 pm

Spare ant+ USB key anyone? ??????

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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:04 pm

Also wanted to mention the workout is incredible. Ran a test, it's imperceptible until you reach threshold on a ramp test, but it's relentless. Very impressed. I am going to build up slowly with the intervals, it's very intense.

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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Krank » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:03 pm

Hi Xplora.

what ramp test do you use (if TR, name of test)?

How do you build up 'slowly' with intervals?


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Xplora
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby Xplora » Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:39 pm

Download the ERG file, away you go. MAP tests are all the same. gradual increases in resistance, and take the last minute once you blow out. 75% of that is FTP. Or thereabouts ;)

How do you build up with intervals? Easy. If you think your FTP is 300, do your first 2x20 at 240w. A week later, 20 at 245 then 20 at 250. See how you feel. Keep slowly increasing the power. Yes... you are under threshold by a lot (only 75%%!) but you run the risk of severe injury and fatigue doing this kind of training because you just don't ride like this on the road.

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kb
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Re: Seeking info on Wahoo Kickr

Postby kb » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:22 am

Xplora wrote:Download the ERG file, away you go. MAP tests are all the same. gradual increases in resistance, and take the last minute once you blow out. 75% of that is FTP. Or thereabouts ;)
One thing to note though, is most ERG file "players" are scaled to your FTP. This may make a difference in a ramp test, as it means the step size and the ramp rate no longer match the protocol. Could be worth at least resetting to the same FTP each time.
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