Smart trainers and software

Baalzamon
Posts: 5470
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: Yangebup

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Baalzamon » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:00 pm

So I just grabbed an Elite Direto from Pushys with 15% off. 2 rides so far and I've had ERG mode on and I was like what is ERG mode as I was mainly in 1 gear. Googled it and went OH.

So I've been off bike for a little time for a few months. How long would I wait to do FTP test?
Masi Speciale CX 2008 - Brooks B17 special saddle, Garmin Edge 810
Image

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:19 pm

Baalzamon wrote:So I just grabbed an Elite Direto from Pushys with 15% off. 2 rides so far and I've had ERG mode on and I was like what is ERG mode as I was mainly in 1 gear. Googled it and went OH.

So I've been off bike for a little time for a few months. How long would I wait to do FTP test?
I you feel well enough, ie, well rested, good health (no cold or flu viruses) then you should give the FTP test a go.

Do a nice 5-8min gentle warm up, then set a 2% gradient and go for 20 minutes. If after 20min you still feel like you've got more in the tank, do another 2 minutes and just try to destroy yourself. Then take the best 20 minutes. If you use trainingpeaks, it'll tell you that in the summary anyway.

The FTP test is really your base line that you use for your ERG workouts, they work off that.

Baalzamon
Posts: 5470
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: Yangebup

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:42 pm

Well I've got trainerroad now. Did FTP test in that and yep felt that alrighty. Now going to do trainerroad plans with zwift overlaid. Is taking a bit to get used to ERG mode.
Masi Speciale CX 2008 - Brooks B17 special saddle, Garmin Edge 810
Image

booge
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:48 pm
Location: Wantirna South VIC

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby booge » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:58 pm

I'll start by saying I have no idea with computers. Would Zwift and a smart trainer work with a new $500ish laptop? I'm perusing the office works and JB Hifi sites but am concerned about buying something and it not working when i hook it all up. I'm not concerned with the Ultimate Zwift visual experience, just want it to work well enough.

User avatar
Tim
Posts: 2944
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:02 pm
Location: Gippsland Lakes

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Tim » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:25 pm

$500.00 won't buy you a laptop with any sort of graphics power.
Read this thread and you'll see that Apple TV is the cheapest option.

User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
Posts: 4997
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:56 am

Problem with laptops is the lack of upgradeability. You might be able to add RAM and maybe change the HDD to an SSD but not much else. IOW if the built in graphics capability isn't adequate, you won't have much option to fix that. The only way to really know is to run the software.

I had an old second hand office Windows PC I bought many years ago for ~$200 which I used for running my Computrainer using PerfPro. It did the job just fine, fortunately PerfPro software is not overly resource hungry considering its depth of options. Was a small form factor HP desktop unit.

When I tried Zwift with it, it worked. I'd say it was probably close to the limit of Zwift's minimum configuration.

It wouldn't however drive Veloreality software. The video demands were too great for the old office PC without decent in built graphics capability.

Since then I've installed a second hand 2Gb Nvidia graphics card that cost $30, an extra 4Gb of RAM for $10 to bring it up to its max capacity of 8Gb (second hand off FB buy/swap) and upgraded it to Windows 10 (no cost).

After upgrade it operates Veloreality and Zwift quite well (not that I'm using Zwift ATM). I also now use a surplus 32" Sony TV as the screen via HDMI cable (courtesy of the graphics card) and that's a nice size for the screen when on the trainer.

Now would an expensive modern graphics intensive gaming PC do a better job? Most probably but this will likely still operate for some years and cost very little. Something about making old stuff last I like doing. My next project will be replacing the HDD with an SSD and I'm keeping my eye out for bargains.

booge
Posts: 415
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:48 pm
Location: Wantirna South VIC

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby booge » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:49 am

Thanks for the replies. I've since looked at Apple TV and a monitor and that would be cheap...very cheap!

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:03 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Problem with laptops is the lack of upgradeability. You might be able to add RAM and maybe change the HDD to an SSD but not much else. IOW if the built in graphics capability isn't adequate, you won't have much option to fix that. The only way to really know is to run the software.

I had an old second hand office Windows PC I bought many years ago for ~$200 which I used for running my Computrainer using PerfPro. It did the job just fine, fortunately PerfPro software is not overly resource hungry considering its depth of options. Was a small form factor HP desktop unit.

When I tried Zwift with it, it worked. I'd say it was probably close to the limit of Zwift's minimum configuration.

It wouldn't however drive Veloreality software. The video demands were too great for the old office PC without decent in built graphics capability.

Since then I've installed a second hand 2Gb Nvidia graphics card that cost $30, an extra 4Gb of RAM for $10 to bring it up to its max capacity of 8Gb (second hand off FB buy/swap) and upgraded it to Windows 10 (no cost).

After upgrade it operates Veloreality and Zwift quite well (not that I'm using Zwift ATM). I also now use a surplus 32" Sony TV as the screen via HDMI cable (courtesy of the graphics card) and that's a nice size for the screen when on the trainer.

Now would an expensive modern graphics intensive gaming PC do a better job? Most probably but this will likely still operate for some years and cost very little. Something about making old stuff last I like doing. My next project will be replacing the HDD with an SSD and I'm keeping my eye out for bargains.

All I’m running is a little Lenovo tablet PC for PerfPro Studio and a Tacx Neo - it is fine. Maybe have a video going in the background. It won’t do Zwift though.

I did want to put up a big screen - but it’s not a priority at the moment. I’m only using the trainer setup for my own purposes. If I wanted to do more, I know it can be done. Add more trainers, and get some proper stationary bike frames, fitted with 105 components.

For now what I have works extremely well. :)

But for Zwift I would recommend building a PC, or get a gaming computer. Building a PC is a bit of a nuisance though.

Rorschach
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:14 pm
Location: Beeliar, WA

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Rorschach » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:00 pm

Hi All
Looking at a trainer as I am not getting time to get out and about with a newborn in the house (not that I was all that much anyway...) and am looking at picking up a Kickr Snap as there isn't much in the way of cheap/second hand units knocking about, and I'd to use my Elemnt Bolt head unit to control if possible. Would be looking at using with a late 2017 MacBook Pro initially, which seems to tick the boxes specs-wise
Is a Snap worth it for the money given I can't leave it out all the time, and probably won't use it enough to warrant going direct drive. Primary use will be to build up base fitness, get some KMs into my legs and do some Zwifting.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 am

Rorschach wrote:Hi All
Looking at a trainer as I am not getting time to get out and about with a newborn in the house (not that I was all that much anyway...) and am looking at picking up a Kickr Snap as there isn't much in the way of cheap/second hand units knocking about, and I'd to use my Elemnt Bolt head unit to control if possible. Would be looking at using with a late 2017 MacBook Pro initially, which seems to tick the boxes specs-wise
Is a Snap worth it for the money given I can't leave it out all the time, and probably won't use it enough to warrant going direct drive. Primary use will be to build up base fitness, get some KMs into my legs and do some Zwifting.
Here is your solution:

https://www.bikebug.com/tacx-t2900-flux ... 64997.html
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/09/wah ... iew-2.html

It's not that much more expensive. The non direct drive trainers in my experience always give dramas with tyres slipping, etc - or you have to use a special trainer tyre/wheel to avoid burning up your normal tyres. It's just a pain. The extra money might save you the effort of replacing tyres or having a specific trainer wheel/tyre combo.

2017 Macbook Pro should work fine. Depending on what software you want to use with it, you might need to get MS Windows and run it in either VMWare Fusion or even Virtual Box (should be free, but a bit complex to install).

Rorschach
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:14 pm
Location: Beeliar, WA

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Rorschach » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:28 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Rorschach wrote:Hi All
Looking at a trainer as I am not getting time to get out and about with a newborn in the house (not that I was all that much anyway...) and am looking at picking up a Kickr Snap as there isn't much in the way of cheap/second hand units knocking about, and I'd to use my Elemnt Bolt head unit to control if possible. Would be looking at using with a late 2017 MacBook Pro initially, which seems to tick the boxes specs-wise
Is a Snap worth it for the money given I can't leave it out all the time, and probably won't use it enough to warrant going direct drive. Primary use will be to build up base fitness, get some KMs into my legs and do some Zwifting.
Here is your solution:

https://www.bikebug.com/tacx-t2900-flux ... 64997.html
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2018/09/wah ... iew-2.html

It's not that much more expensive. The non direct drive trainers in my experience always give dramas with tyres slipping, etc - or you have to use a special trainer tyre/wheel to avoid burning up your normal tyres. It's just a pain. The extra money might save you the effort of replacing tyres or having a specific trainer wheel/tyre combo.

2017 Macbook Pro should work fine. Depending on what software you want to use with it, you might need to get MS Windows and run it in either VMWare Fusion or even Virtual Box (should be free, but a bit complex to install).
Cheers for that.
I did look at the Kickr Core and other ones, but thought I'd save some $$$ with the Snap. Turns out you also need a thru axle adaptor at the cost of >$100, which makes it even more comparable. Still need a cassette and chain whip, but thats doable.
Have parallels for my MacBook, so can use that at the minute, but would prefer something MacBook compatible.

NASHIE
Posts: 1193
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:16 pm
Location: Perth, WA

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby NASHIE » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:09 pm

FWIW, just picked up a 2nd Taxc Vortex for $300 paired to apple se phone, then screen mirror to TV through old version apple TV and all works well.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:22 pm

Any idea on downloading a segment from Strava to import into trainer software (PerfPro studio):

https://www.strava.com/segments/10205155

I've done that above segment for real and I think it'll be a perfect one for a long trainer session - it's almost 1430m climbing. I guess it would work alright on a direct drive trainer.

I couldn't find an obvious way to download it from Strava, as a last resort I was thinking to copy my ride and then crop the duplicate and use that, if the Garmin recorded it accurately.

User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
Posts: 4997
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:24 pm

Don't know about Strava but you could create the course file via other means, or use your own Garmin file to import into PerfPro.
http://perfprostudio.com/CourseInfo.aspx

You can then use the PerfPro course editor to edit the course, e.g. crop out anything before/after the segment.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:49 pm

Thanks Alex. I will do some experiments now that the run of beautiful dry weather in Sydney seems to be over.

PerfPro I see also has an iOS remote control app:

https://youtu.be/P6PSQ2A5rOo1

It’s a bit expensive at nearly $15, but it’s extremely useful. Just so long as the iOS device and the computer running PerfPro are on the same network it all runs very smoothly so far as I’ve tried it.

User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
Posts: 4997
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:28 am

g-boaf wrote:Thanks Alex. I will do some experiments now that the run of beautiful dry weather in Sydney seems to be over.

PerfPro I see also has an iOS remote control app:

https://youtu.be/P6PSQ2A5rOo1

It’s a bit expensive at nearly $15, but it’s extremely useful. Just so long as the iOS device and the computer running PerfPro are on the same network it all runs very smoothly so far as I’ve tried it.
Nice. I don't use the remote app, I just use a remote mouse, which usually isn't much and do the calibration from the handlebar controller. But I can see how it might be handy at times.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:51 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
g-boaf wrote:Thanks Alex. I will do some experiments now that the run of beautiful dry weather in Sydney seems to be over.

PerfPro I see also has an iOS remote control app:

https://youtu.be/P6PSQ2A5rOo1

It’s a bit expensive at nearly $15, but it’s extremely useful. Just so long as the iOS device and the computer running PerfPro are on the same network it all runs very smoothly so far as I’ve tried it.
Nice. I don't use the remote app, I just use a remote mouse, which usually isn't much and do the calibration from the handlebar controller. But I can see how it might be handy at times.
Yeah, it’s pretty good and seemed to just work right away. I think it’d be perfect with a cheap iPad on wifi and setup on a stand beside the bars.

I still have the laptop on a small table beside the bike, this will let me move it further away and still control everything needed on screen. Then eventually set up a big screen on the wall (or a projector).

User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
Posts: 4997
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:51 pm

I had a ride on Zwift today. I'm using the trial option, they give you 25km to test it out. I had ridden it before but it's been a while so they must reset the trial period every so often.

One thing I forgot about Zwift is you don't have much option when it comes to gradients. In other software I have you can limit the simulated gradient, which is useful considering my condition! And double digit gradients are not much fun on the Computrainer when wheel speed is very low.

In any case, I was just looking to do a general ride of about 40-min and I ended up with 45-min. It seemed to pass reasonably quickly. About as quickly as everyone was passing me!

I had one real life mechanical with a rear cog derailment that needed me to get off and put the chain back on. Due to using a spare wheel which has a cluster that doesn't quite match the shifter set up and if I'm not careful while in my lowest gear I can still select one more that's not actually there! A consequence of the steep simulated gradient as I search for another gear!

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:55 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:And double digit gradients are not much fun on the Computrainer when wheel speed is very low.
I remember that, always slipping tyres. That's pretty much why I love those direct drive trainers, they do away with all of the wheel on roller issues.

Is there any support left for Computrainer these days, or is it just a matter of hope it keeps going and then find something else when it fails? (they usually make a burning smell or worse, go bang quite loudly).

User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
Posts: 4997
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:26 am

g-boaf wrote:Is there any support left for Computrainer these days,
e-bay I guess

That said they are, by and large, extremely robust units. Must still be a heap of them out there.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:16 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Don't know about Strava but you could create the course file via other means, or use your own Garmin file to import into PerfPro.
http://perfprostudio.com/CourseInfo.aspx

You can then use the PerfPro course editor to edit the course, e.g. crop out anything before/after the segment.
Just found I could use Strava routes to create them, export as GPX and bring them straight in. Neat!

Just brought in these:
https://www.strava.com/routes/17613575 (Guillestre-Risoul)
https://www.strava.com/routes/11376924 (Brixen-Plancios)
https://www.strava.com/routes/17613800 (Valloire - Les Deux-Alpes)

I've done all of those IRL, but the third one I doubt I'll do on the trainer, I'm not crazy enough to do that. :lol: The first one has been done in under 37 minutes in real life, that's a heck of a brutal speed. :shock:

User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
Posts: 4997
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:07 am

Yeah, there's not much you can't do with PerfPro. You can even create your own video training sessions - import your own video and power meter file and voila - instant training session. You can of course edit the session to make it more suitable for indoor.

User avatar
g-boaf
Posts: 21320
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby g-boaf » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:09 pm

Wahoo Kickr Bike:



New to the market, but not available in meaningful numbers just yet.

I also notice that the Wattbike Atom seems to be available in Australia now - $3.5K. This seems reasonable compared with the usual smart trainers given you don’t have to supply your own bike.

User avatar
ft_critical
Posts: 2099
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:06 pm
Location: watching the 11
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby ft_critical » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:32 pm

And they are trialling both steering and braking on Strava now.

User avatar
Alex Simmons/RST
Expert
Posts: 4997
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: Smart trainers and software

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:35 am

Steering on a trainer is stupid. Steer like that on a bike and you'd crash.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users