Male reproductive health and cycling

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby lobstermash » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:01 pm

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby macca33 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:24 pm

Does she also want you to give up breathing???? FFS.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:06 pm

moosterbounce wrote:Really? You'd leave her?
No idea. The thing is it's not only about the cycling. I've agree to many stupid things before. I was really put off by a lot of what she said, and I guess I'm still pretty upset about it. I pointed to one of our friends who smoked pot all throughout (the dad did) and she proceeded to tell me the kids was a bit not normal. Then the autism comment. This is very unlike her character and usually she is the one telling me not to be mean. But seriously, if this is what maternal instaincts are and I can expect this for the rest of my life, yeah, I'd consider it. Kids are a huge turning point.

Anyhow I'm going to go for a marathon ride tonight in retaliation and see how this plays out. It's going to be bloody cold, but better than sitting at home and argueing about it. I think we both need to get back to earth.

Otherwise send me some velomobile suggestions :P. Then maybe I can match Zill's 80kph on Beach road!
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby tcdev » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:41 pm

Obviously I'm not privy to what actually goes down nor the relationship dynamics in your household but after reading your accounts and your feelings towards it I've got alarm bells ringing pretty loudly here.

The problem is that if you're on shaky - or even uncertain - ground before kids arrive then I can assure you it's only going to get harder. The pressure they place on your relationship cannot be underestimated. And of course the stakes have only risen exponentially when there are other lives in the equation.

I would sit down and explain to her that her concerns are unfounded and her demands are unreasonable. Offer some compromise but I wouldn't budge on the cycling; that's your yardstick. If she won't see reason, then I guess it's up to you to decide if you can live with that sort of crazy, and/or if you think it will only get worse over time. Then either make a stand, and see how it plays out, or simply bail - at that point you've got nothing to lose.

Good luck - I hope she comes around.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby matagi » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:56 pm

Calvin27 wrote:
moosterbounce wrote:Really? You'd leave her?
No idea. The thing is it's not only about the cycling. I've agree to many stupid things before. I was really put off by a lot of what she said, and I guess I'm still pretty upset about it. I pointed to one of our friends who smoked pot all throughout (the dad did) and she proceeded to tell me the kids was a bit not normal. Then the autism comment. This is very unlike her character and usually she is the one telling me not to be mean. But seriously, if this is what maternal instaincts are and I can expect this for the rest of my life, yeah, I'd consider it. Kids are a huge turning point.

Anyhow I'm going to go for a marathon ride tonight in retaliation and see how this plays out. It's going to be bloody cold, but better than sitting at home and argueing about it. I think we both need to get back to earth.

Otherwise send me some velomobile suggestions :P. Then maybe I can match Zill's 80kph on Beach road!
Without knowing both of your and not being privy to exactly how the conversation unfolded, I would say the bit I've put in bold is the key. There is something else going on here, which has nothing to do with having kids. You need to sort out what the problem really is.

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:11 pm

matagi wrote:
Calvin27 wrote: This is very unlike her character and usually she is the one telling me not to be mean.

Without knowing both of your and not being privy to exactly how the conversation unfolded, I would say the bit I've put in bold is the key. There is something else going on here, which has nothing to do with having kids. You need to sort out what the problem really is.
Yeah, like I said her skanky friend just had a baby and revealed they were at it for over a year (even though she was basically on the pill for 8 years prior). All I hear these days, I struggled initially and shrugged it off making jokes about the quality of my seed (grandma had 12 kids). But it was as if the baby came and then all the cray cray stepped up with it. It's not even my baby it's her friends for flaps sake. I wish there was just some sort of tranquilizer for this. Add to this one of her other friends is struggling (been at it for 2 years and they are noticeably getting more cranky) while the others are in la la land. My frustration is two fold. Firstly we haven't even started tying and already I am copping this crap. We're both young, healthy and generally had no history of substance abuse and had ok diets. Statistically, we should be good. But I am forced to treat it like if I so much as look at a bike, my dna will mutate into a bloody chimera.
tcdev wrote:Obviously I'm not privy to what actually goes down nor the relationship dynamics in your household but after reading your accounts and your feelings towards it I've got alarm bells ringing pretty loudly here.

The problem is that if you're on shaky - or even uncertain - ground before kids arrive then I can assure you it's only going to get harder. The pressure they place on your relationship cannot be underestimated. And of course the stakes have only risen exponentially when there are other lives in the equation.

I would sit down and explain to her that her concerns are unfounded and her demands are unreasonable. Offer some compromise but I wouldn't budge on the cycling; that's your yardstick. If she won't see reason, then I guess it's up to you to decide if you can live with that sort of crazy, and/or if you think it will only get worse over time. Then either make a stand, and see how it plays out, or simply bail - at that point you've got nothing to lose.

Good luck - I hope she comes around.
Yeah that's my point. I'm 100% with you there. I can see this only getting worse once the kiddlings arrive and can not imagine dealing with this sort of stuff with extra workload and less sleep. I think this is one time in life where I have to stand firm and hold ground. I will probably get away with being able to cycle, but that's not what worries me. It's the craziness and lack of control (talking down other's kids and making stupid connections aggressively) that is of more concern. I think now that I have gone for my evening ride, I'll sit it out for a week. Let things cool down and then bring up the topic. I think I just need to mentally prepare myself with the possible outcomes and some evidence as well.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby ValleyForge » Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:48 pm

Putting relationship stuff to one side for a moment....

Failure to conceive would only attract medical attention, if neither partner had ever conceived in other relationships and had now been trying (doing it properly :P ) for 12 months. And even then, most GPs won't get excited. They'll say wait a bit longer. Then when you make an appointment for the Infertility clinic - it will happen the day before!

And I can tell you cycling is great for the pelvic floor muscles. And the buttocks. And the thighs. And great for stamina too. Just sayin....
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby Calvin27 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:26 pm

ValleyForge wrote: And I can tell you cycling is great for the pelvic floor muscles. And the buttocks. And the thighs. And great for stamina too. Just sayin....
Pfft, you don't need stamina to procreate. It's those without it that have 'accidents'. :P.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby TheKaptone » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:33 pm

She sounds like she is just seeing how Keen you are for kids. Given that you are complaining about this and all there other stuff you are going to lose when the baby comes along, you may need to ask yourself some tough questions before you with to much about not riding. If you are not riding loads as you put it I don't think you will be missing to much of you don't ride for a while but that could be an excuse for drier lying issues in your minds regarding a child

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby cyclotaur » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:00 am

Good grief - she must be pretty hot if you're still together, is all I can say....

I'm sorry but I'd leave this woman and hope to find someone more rational, mature and intelligent.

I reckon you're lucky and being given an early warning of life for the next 30 years if you stay together and breed with this one.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:46 am

NeillS wrote:It's got nothing to do with health. She's testing the waters to see if she can control you fully before the kids come along. Bail now. She's not a keeper.

I agree with this. Maybe it isn't so, but the reasoning for the demands seem pretty unfounded.

It is something both of you have to resolve, you are together, so it is important. And when you have kids, that is a bigger responsibility again. If you go ahead, you will likely have to give up riding for some time anyway.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby fat and old » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:56 am

Calvin27 wrote: It's not ridiculous it's just out right offensive, inconsiderate and stupid. I actually lost it so bad when she said that. It's this that makes me think twice. Imagine the sort of rubbish I'll have to deal with downthe line if this is only the start.
I can. But only you can decide it she (and the relationship.....two separate things) is worth it. Me? If not married or financially tied, I'd bail....just based on that post.

Can't help with procreation except to say I was working hard, smoking weed, drinking alchohol and partying hard when my wife conceived our first. He finished a double degree then went on to a master. Second one finished a degree with honours and is taking over the business.

Maybe put it back on her...."what have you done before we met that may make it hard for you to conceive and then blame me?"

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby rapunzel » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:07 am

Finding this thread rather interesting. Not sure why you would want advice from a bunch of randoms online for such an important personal issue... but heck, if everyone else is going to throw in their two cents, I might as well, too!

Interesting that everyone wants to write her off as crazy so fast without really knowing much about you, her, the relationship, and the real issues at play. This is also very one sided.

First, you are in a relationship with this person, so there must be reasons for that to have happened and continued to the point of discussing having children.

Second, why the continued reference to the ‘skanky’ friend and the fact that she has been on birth control for 8 years? This seems unrelated to your relationship with your partner and the current dilemma, other than the fact that their discussions may have added to your partner’s concerns with falling pregnant and having a healthy child. Is there some other issue at play in relation to this friend that you need to address?

Time to really know yourself: do you actually want children? This is the main question to start. If not, it is probably a deal breaker for the relationship without any of the other things going on with your partner contributing. Is labelling her crazy or saying cycling is so important just a way of avoiding having to make a call on the kids/no kids issue?

If you DO want children, the next important question is – do you want children with this woman? The answer will dictate what you do next. If you do want them with her, then you may need to continue on to: When do you actually want to have children? When does she want to have them? Can this be negotiated to a result you are both satisfied with?

As for the ‘crazy’ label – you stated that some of this is out of character for her. Why might she be saying such things, then? The first thing that comes to my mind: Fear. Anxiety. This is just my opinion – I could be way off mark. But she has made it clear she wants to have children with you, and is now terrified in some way that something will go wrong. She may not fall pregnant. There may be something wrong with the child. Her way of expressing this is unfortunately causing grief for you and the relationship now. But if you both care about the relationship, you will both take the time to get to the real issues: Why is she so anxious? What are the fears? How can you help her overcome them in a realistic manner? What are your concerns and how can she work on these with you?

This is all assuming you actually WANT to work through it with her, and she is capable of taking part in that, too...

Some on here have suggested talking with a doctor to go through all the fertility information – excellent idea. Or see a counsellor to figure out the emotional issues related to having children. This is an opportunity to strengthen your relationship and really connect with each other if you can both see past the surface. It can be hard work though; emotions run high in such scenarios (as she has already clearly shown you). And you have to know what you both really want, and whether it is possible to work together on it at this time. Any possible future child needs this from you – because whether you stay together as a couple or not, that child would need you both working as a team in parenting them.

As someone else said: the cycling will be up and down for a while once you have a child. You will have much more complex demands placed on yourself and your relationship than just whether you can ride or not – the cycling is just a façade on the real issues. Your personalities and how you manage thing together is much more telling for outcomes. I would personally caution against the suggestion of questioning her vs you on what may make it hard to conceive - this is a relationship trap: whose fault is X? Besides being toxic to your relationship, this kind of behaviour would likely continue on into your family conflicts with the future child, too. Not ideal.

Find the root cause and deal with that. Can she see what is happening? Do you actually want this? If it is not what you actually want, be up front and honest so she can also move on and find someone who does want to have children with her.... and you can keep riding to your heart's content!

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby softy » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:38 am

If you research domestic voilence, what your partner is doing fits into the criteria.

I know this doesn't help your situation, as you are with her and can't change her. Obviously you like her and want to have children with her.

Your real problem is not making a good argument for cycling, as a woman who is emotional attached and wanting a child is far from thinking straight. So saying cycling doesn't affect conceiving is just a waste of time.
I hate to say this cliché, but it is just a stage she is going through. Tell her what she wants to hear, but keep doing what you want.
When she says why are you still riding, just reply, "to keep myself healthy and maintain my weight" if she goes on, just work off and do something else. Don't engage her crazy arguements.

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby barefoot » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:43 am

If you're down to tit-for-tat retaliation, ultimatums and scoring points against each other, then you need to do some serious relationship work before you even contemplate making new humans.

This isn't about cycling and sperm quality.

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:58 am

softy wrote: I hate to say this cliché, but it is just a stage she is going through. Tell her what she wants to hear, but keep doing what you want.
When she says why are you still riding, just reply, "to keep myself healthy and maintain my weight" if she goes on, just work off and do something else. Don't engage her crazy arguements.
Not doing that. That is just kicking the can down the road. It gets worse when there is a kid on the way. Sorry, but that's a bad idea.
barefoot wrote:If you're down to tit-for-tat retaliation, ultimatums and scoring points against each other, then you need to do some serious relationship work before you even contemplate making new humans.
I don't think there is much point scoring against one another. But definately ultimatums are there. I agree on the part about working it out before making humans though. This is the big issue for me. If she being aggressive and irrational at this point, I'm not keen on raising little humans up like this.
barefoot wrote: This isn't about cycling and sperm quality.
It was. But looks like that part is sorted.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby softy » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:03 pm

Whats the bet if you mention discussing this with a doctor or relationship counsellor, she will go balllastic!

Give it a try and report back?

I bet she uses the guilt trip, " you are so selfish" words for your riding and eating.

Choice, that is the problem, we make our own choices to behave how me like, we can only understand ourselves and do what we decide, we choose to change. The problem is our society doesn't respect this, control or manipulation, is promoted as a powerful personal trait in our society, why socio paths are rewarded in bussiness. If you don't stick to your own boundaries you will resent yourself. Conversely, the more her gets you to comply the more she will do it.

Please understand I am not picking on woman as this can happen in reverse. It is about personal boundaries and other people making you bend them. They use words like, "if you really loved me / or cared you would", would what? They expect you to already know this, so there is no defence, it is just a non argument you can never win, so why respond and give it traction.

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby Calvin27 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:14 pm

softy wrote:Whats the bet if you mention discussing this with a doctor or relationship counsellor, she will go balllastic!

Give it a try and report back?

I bet she uses the guilt trip, " you are so selfish" words for your riding and eating.

Choice, that is the problem, we make our own choices to behave how me like, we can only understand ourselves and do what we decide, we choose to change. The problem is our society doesn't respect this, control or manipulation, is promoted as a powerful personal trait in our society, why socio paths are rewarded in bussiness. If you don't stick to your own boundaries you will resent yourself. Conversely, the more her gets you to comply the more she will do it.

Please understand I am not picking on woman as this can happen in reverse. It is about personal boundaries and other people making you bend them. They use words like, "if you really loved me / or cared you would", would what? They expect you to already know this, so there is no defence, it is just a non argument you can never win, so why respond and give it traction.
Yes, I did that initially and, no she did not go ballistic. She just maintaind the same high level of ballistic. I think logic triggers it.

Yes guilt trip. This is standard, no?

Yes, hard stance here. I just wanted to be sure I didn't miss some study on recreational cyclists.

Yes, thus I am not responding until the dust settles.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby softy » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:17 pm

"
Not doing that. That is just kicking the can down the road. It gets worse when there is a kid on the way. Sorry, but that's a bad idea.
"

It may look like that, but sometimes "less is more"
I am not saying be rude, just respond honestly, say what you are thinking and move on, or say I don't want to discuss it further. You are allowed to make these choices. It is not being dis-respectful.

Timing can change alot of things, kicking it down the road may allow a different light to shine on the subject.

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby softy » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:20 pm

That is good news, she didn't go ballistic,
I would follow through with the suggestion to discuss with the doctor, you will probably both pick up some tips, and understand the process better, effects and no no's involved.

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby g-boaf » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:24 pm

Calvin27 wrote:
softy wrote:Whats the bet if you mention discussing this with a doctor or relationship counsellor, she will go balllastic!

Give it a try and report back?

I bet she uses the guilt trip, " you are so selfish" words for your riding and eating.

Choice, that is the problem, we make our own choices to behave how me like, we can only understand ourselves and do what we decide, we choose to change. The problem is our society doesn't respect this, control or manipulation, is promoted as a powerful personal trait in our society, why socio paths are rewarded in bussiness. If you don't stick to your own boundaries you will resent yourself. Conversely, the more her gets you to comply the more she will do it.

Please understand I am not picking on woman as this can happen in reverse. It is about personal boundaries and other people making you bend them. They use words like, "if you really loved me / or cared you would", would what? They expect you to already know this, so there is no defence, it is just a non argument you can never win, so why respond and give it traction.
Yes, I did that initially and, no she did not go ballistic. She just maintaind the same high level of ballistic. I think logic triggers it.

Yes guilt trip. This is standard, no?

Yes, hard stance here. I just wanted to be sure I didn't miss some study on recreational cyclists.

Yes, thus I am not responding until the dust settles.
Well, you could use this time to let your knee recover (as you wrote in the 6k club topic). As for the arguments, you won't win them, but shouldn't part of being together be the fact that you can discuss things together? You have to resolve it before going any further.

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:09 pm

I'm a bit worried about what, is going on in her head! :?

I'd been racing 6yrs when I met my wife and we were married 12yrs before kids and she was on the pill from 13yrs (medical reasons) and she fell pregnant within 6mths of going off it, so cycling = problems for getting pregnant = BS :wink:

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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby Zippy7 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:36 pm

Calvin27 wrote: Yes, I did that initially and, no she did not go ballistic. She just maintaind the same high level of ballistic. I think logic triggers it.
Interesting thread. Seems like you feel your discussion with her is like talking to a brick wall.

Sounds like she has taken the high ground - She is right, and therefore anything you say that she doesn't agree with is automatically wrong.

I didn't read how old she is. The woman's age is a significant factor - she might be just wanting an excuse to blame you, or some activity of yours, or just want to establish a dominance precedent over you.

In any event, you are right to consider this a red-flag event and worthy of further consideration.
If she blames you now, she will definitely continue to blame you as time goes on. I've been married 18 years - it doesn't get easier, but BOTH parties must compromise to make it work. That's not just you giving in each and every time.

Hopefully you will work through your issue, to the benefit of both of you.
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby tcdev » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:25 pm

I think there's a lot of good advice in this thread, and some advice I definitely don't agree with. But I do think a lot of people have missed the point on the fertility issue and the fact that you haven't even started trying. For all you know, you could go off contraception and she'll get pregnant when you share a straw drinking a milkshake...

I'm also pretty sure that you're comfortable with both the actuality and the timing of having children, otherwise the discussion wouldn't have gotten this far. The question remains then, as someone in this thread put it, do you want children with this woman?

Is it a phase? Perhaps. Is it borne out of fear? Perhaps. My wife had a work colleague who was put on a very strict diet when they were conceiving, including no meat. Granted, they did have fertility issues and the wife's clock was definitely ticking, so there was method to the madness and he probably did the right thing by adhering to it. Problem was, the crazy didn't stop, even when the baby arrived!

For example, the grandmother wasn't allowed to hold the baby for several weeks/months after the birth - because the wife thought it would interfere with the baby bonding with her. Also, no visitors in the house when the baby was sleeping - in case it got woken (I think every parent knows that's just digging a deeper hole). No surprise she was a staunch anti-vax'er too.

In the end they divorced when the baby was a toddler.

Just sayin' :roll:
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Re: Male reproductive health and cycling

Postby zill » Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:38 am

tcdev wrote: In the end they divorced when the baby was a toddler.

Makes me think of the analogy with team sky in this year's giro. Looking for marginal gains then lose huge chunks of time from something that could have been (easily) preventable.

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