Diet Thread

[ball bearing]

I had absolutely no idea that 90% of the worldwide production of B12 is fed to farmed animals. Seems a lot more efficient to take a supplement directly.

"...cattle no longer feed on grass and chickens do not peck in the dirt on factory farms. Even if they did, pesticides often kill B12 producing bacteria and insects in soil. Heavy antibiotic use kills B12 producing bacteria in the guts of farm animals. In order to maintain meat a source of B12 the meat industry now adds it to animal feed, 90% of B12 supplements produced in the world are fed to livestock. Even if you only eat grass-fed organic meat you may not be able to absorb the B12 attached to animal protein. It may be more efficient to just skip the animals and get B12 directly from supplements..."


http://baltimorepostexaminer.com/carniv ... 2013/10/30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Nobody]

I heard the same about B12. So looks like most people are indirectly taking vitamins whether they want to or not.

I also heard that 40% of all Americans take some form of vitamin supplement.

[Baalzamon]

I heard the same about B12. So looks like most people are indirectly taking vitamins whether they want to or not.

I also heard that 40% of all Americans take some form of vitamin supplement.

And if they have Leaky Gut it's a waste of $$$ as it won't get fully absorbed.

[Nobody]

And if they have Leaky Gut it's a waste of $$$ as it won't get fully absorbed.

I thought that leaky gut was about absorbing too much of some things rather than too little.

Leaky gut is marked by inflammation and autoimmune diseases like arthritis.

[Nobody]

Speaking of leaky gut and autoimmune diseases, that is what McDougall's latest webinar is about.



Newsletter recommended from the webinar on ten cases of arthritis cured by diet.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl ... ncases.htm

[stinhambo]

For something that smells so good it's tastes like s##t

Tastes AND smells bad to me. I used to drink Mother for my energy fix but I binned them off at Christmas and I have heaps more natural energy now!

[Baalzamon]

Speaking of leaky gut and autoimmune diseases, that is what McDougall's latest webinar is about.



Newsletter recommended from the webinar on ten cases of arthritis cured by diet.
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2014nl ... ncases.htm

https://www.google.com.au/#q=keto+arthritis

Well imagine that. Look what keto does.

[Nobody]

I went looking for information on long term weight loss of low carb diets and found the following article. The results were better than I thought they were going to be, but still not great. The subjects in most cases lost less than 5kg and their health markers didn't improve much after either one or two years.

http://newspaper23.com/ripped/2014/11/h ... _-full.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A description of the four diets which were compared below:
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/weight-watchers-diet
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/atkins-diet
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/south-beach-diet
http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/zone-diet

I've posted before how the weight watchers diet was a long term statistical failure when analyzed. But reading about it I can see that its structure is similar to my own diet plan in that it has varied restrictiveness based individually on the food itself. The points system just makes it an easier - although less informed - way of doing it. Mine is obviously far more restrictive for both allowed food types and the amounts eaten of food that can add weight.

[twizzle]

If the reference intake for carbs is 240g/day, does eating 239g count as "low carb"? Such a grey area.

Carry on.
See ya.

[Nobody]

If the reference intake for carbs is 240g/day, does eating 239g count as "low carb"? Such a grey area.

Carry on.
See ya.

I linked an article in this post. It was < 130g of carbohydrate a day is considered low carb.

We will.
See ya.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Some articles that I found interesting:
http://www.financialexpress.com/article ... er/206662/
http://www.financialexpress.com/article ... dy/204160/
http://www.financialexpress.com/article ... ab/203465/
http://www.9news.com.au/health/2016/01/ ... overweight

Below is one about the 16% digestive burn of a vegan diet. I had been looking for this online some time ago and had to quote it from one of his books.
http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/the-negative-calorie-effect
Add 15% fibre loss to that and your calorie intake can be 30% higher than an animal based diet for the same net intake IME.

[Baalzamon]

If the reference intake for carbs is 240g/day, does eating 239g count as "low carb"? Such a grey area.

Carry on.
See ya.

Not for me. I have around 21 net carbs and 36 total carbs with 15 fibres. Over 200g fats and around 80-90g protein

[Nobody]

[softy]

This is the real question??

Not that you can loose weight but what is the TOTAL health benefit.

I run into so many people who go, i lost weight it works yippee! That is all they want to know.

[Nobody]

I run into so many people who go, i lost weight it works yippee! That is all they want to know.

Most people have off loaded their health care responsibility to the medical profession. However the medical industry is really just sick care. They have a conflict of interest since they get payment per procedure, not by health result.

Most GPs aren't really active in giving diet advice unless there is an extreme problem. Considering the offended/hostile response they get from some these days, that's no surprise. I believe the offense is brought about by a recent normalizing of higher body weight and a developing anti fat shaming attitude. Even then, their medical education doesn't include the dietary prevention of chronic illnesses. To be effective, they would have to educate themselves on the topic. That is why you get some educating their patients in low-carb to lose weight. One significant medical journal is trying to change this.

On the topic of people getting heavier, I see a medical specialist every 6 to 9 months. She is aged probably in her low 40s and a vegetarian. Every time I see her she has put on a noticeable amount of weight. I'm mildly temped to mention diet but she seemed to be hostile toward my diet course already and doctors generally think they know everything. So I won't mention it since I'm not employed to help her diet issues and don't want the rebuttal. As said before, I may be vocal here about diet as a means to helping some, but in real life I'm more resistant to mention it unless the subject is initiated by someone else. Even then I'm expecting an offended/hostile response from most. Generally people don't like the thought of change and the commercial media and the food industries have been teaching them for decades that they are eating correctly.

Anyway, I've posted about this before here. This post is really for those who haven't heard it before.

[Nobody]

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/sodium- ... lt-debate/

I'm glad the video above was done to explain the J or U curve sometimes seen in salt studies. I have been skeptical of the results in the past knowing there are often industry influences. Therefore I went with the < 2000mg WHO recommendation because being an international body, they are less influenced by industry. But on seeing the video I'm happy that I ditched all added salt some months ago.

However my blood pressure (BP) hasn't got any better. Still 115/65. I've noticed that when my diet gets to a point, the small differences in salt, healthy fats etc don't seem to make any significant difference to blood tests or BP. Even weight doesn't vary by much. To me it points to how tolerant the body can be. It's just that most people are abusing their bodies without realizing it to the point of seeing measurable changes.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.bicycling.com/food/hydration ... more-water

[CKinnard]

On the topic of people getting heavier, I see a medical specialist every 6 to 9 months. She is aged probably in her low 40s and a vegetarian. Every time I see her she has put on a noticeable amount of weight. I'm mildly temped to mention diet but she seemed to be hostile toward my diet course already and doctors generally think they know everything. So I won't mention it since I'm not employed to help her diet issues and don't want the rebuttal. As said before, I may be vocal here about diet as a means to helping some, but in real life I'm more resistant to mention it unless the subject is initiated by someone else. Even then I'm expecting an offended/hostile response from most. Generally people don't like the thought of change and the commercial media and the food industries have been teaching them for decades that they are eating correctly.

Anyway, I've posted about this before here. This post is really for those who haven't heard it before.

I didn't know you regularly saw a medical specialist. Can I ask what specialty?
I think if you drilled down deep, you'd find she has no idea of the general energy density of food groups let alone comfort food, nor her average energy expenditure.
But I'll back you 100% that many doctors overestimate their knowledge, about most stuff, especially preventative medicine, and lifestyle adjustments for facilitating healing (there's no product to sell in these cases!)
Most just don't know how to say "I don't know, but I'll devote 15 minutes to researching it after clinic today".

I think the paradox is highlighted by this. The medical literature shows undisputedly at this time in history that a survival advantage is to be found in plant based whole foods eating. And yet, the majority of doctors do not eat this way. Why so?

If the medical profession wants to use science to infringe on people's free will regarding vaccination, for the apparent undisputed health benefits of vaccinations, then they must also take equally seriously what the science says about diet. But they don't! Before anyone retorts, it is a give obese people and the malnourished are immuno-compromised and are therefore a greater infectious disease risk to others. But you don't see the govt banning fat people from working in or attending child care centers!

[ball bearing]

I think the paradox is highlighted by this. The medical literature shows undisputedly at this time in history that a survival advantage is to be found in plant based whole foods eating. And yet, the majority of doctors do not eat this way. Why so?

I'm beginning to love this guy, Dr Michael Greger. I've had conversations about disease preventative diets with a couple of doctors and they both said that they only know what the dieticians tell them.

[Nobody]

I didn't know you regularly saw a medical specialist. Can I ask what specialty?

Haematology. Haemochromatosis.

I think if you drilled down deep, you'd find she has no idea of the general energy density of food groups let alone comfort food, nor her average energy expenditure.

I wouldn't get a chance to find out I'd say.

But I'll back you 100% that many doctors overestimate their knowledge, about most stuff, especially preventative medicine, and lifestyle adjustments for facilitating healing (there's no product to sell in these cases!)
Most just don't know how to say "I don't know, but I'll devote 15 minutes to researching it after clinic today".

Totally agree. You'd know better than me.
Dr: I think (I know), therefore I am.

I think the paradox is highlighted by this. The medical literature shows undisputedly at this time in history that a survival advantage is to be found in plant based whole foods eating. And yet, the majority of doctors do not eat this way. Why so?

How many really know about it? Even if they did, I think most MDs went for the fancy job to have the fancy life. Eating plant based probably isn't part of that. More factors than just the science. Even smart people can suffer from dysrationalia.

If the medical profession wants to use science to infringe on people's free will regarding vaccination, for the apparent undisputed health benefits of vaccinations, then they must also take equally seriously what the science says about diet. But they don't! Before anyone retorts, it is a given that obese people and the malnourished are immuno-compromised and are therefore a greater infectious disease risk to others. But you don't see the govt banning fat people from working in or attending child care centers!

Banning some outliers is probably a bit easier than restricting a third of the population. Especially considering that if increasing at the same rate as the US of 5% per year, it will only be 9 years until they are the majority of the population. How will the pollies deal with that? Seems like a sure way to get yourself voted out in the future.

But I take your point. I just think that diet is still a form of entertainment for nearly everyone in wealthy countries. The low read number of this thread is testament to how little people care. They often stay that way even after getting chronic illnesses, which goes to show how addictive the western diet really is.

[CKinnard]

Ah, I'd forgotten about your haem. Incidentally, I've had two clients recently who had all the symptoms, but were positive for only a few of the blood markers. Apparently there's 3 or 4 and you have to positive for all before dx is confirmed.

Don't worry about the low readership too much Nobody.
Just follow your own path. I sense in the future you will have lots of opportunity to communicate to a larger audience, who want what you have.

Meanwhile, I am off to see my rheumatologist tomorrow for a follow up on gout. I've been under too much work stress for the last year, so in 4 weeks I am taking off for a month.

[Nobody]

Ah, I'd forgotten about your haem. Incidentally, I've had two clients recently who had all the symptoms, but were positive for only a few of the blood markers. Apparently there's 3 or 4 and you have to positive for all before dx is confirmed.

If they have ferritin iron overload but are negative for the genetic test, then they could have NAFLD and/or just be eating too much beef. A liver MRI is the best way to get a quick diagnosis. I had genetic, blood and liver echo testing with venesection (bleeding) treatment to confirm.

I'm genetically positive for H63D. I've had ferritin iron overload. Have high saturation caused by low TIBC and high general blood iron levels, so will continue to iron load. My ferritin (main long term indicator of iron loading) has been in the normal range for some months now. I'm due to be bled again next month (3 monthly).

I'm still bringing in too much iron, but reluctant to go more grain based as it usually adds more weight and it's not quite as healthy. As posted in a video from Andrew Perlot previously, a raw diet gets more iron actually absorbed.

Don't worry about the low readership too much Nobody.
Just follow your own path. I sense in the future you will have lots of opportunity to communicate to a larger audience, who want what you have.

Thanks, but that comment was just for illustration purposes. I'm not chasing readers, just the truth. People can take it or leave it. By posting I'm probably benefiting myself more than anyone else as it reinforces the message in my own mind. 2 years ago I couldn't give a real good answer as to why the diet worked or its benefits. Now if someone asks me I can bore them with all kinds of details.

Meanwhile, I am off to see my rheumatologist tomorrow for a follow up on gout. I've been under too much work stress for the last year, so in 4 weeks I am taking off for a month.

Good for you. I'm on leave currently and for another couple of weeks. For me, summer and autumn are the best times to take leave.

Is your diet tuned to avoid gout currently? Have you done an elimination diet in the past?

[CKinnard]

I still have regular deviations from the ideal diet for gout or longevity Nobody.
But as I said, I will be getting my life more under my control this year and reducing work stress.
It's mainly stress that effects my blood sugar and cravings.

Essentially, when being good, I eat :
brekky : green smoothie or porridge with berries, seeds.
lunch : large salad with can of legumes, or salad roll.
dinner: vege and protein, with or without starch.
snacks : fruit or muesli bars or nuts.

When I am bad, it's a (healthier) thai stir fry takeaway and bottle of wine, and maybe a few beers and a sweet bakery treat after riding on the weekends.

Anyway, I think many people struggle to get their appetites controlled when their stressors are not, and that's certainly the case with me.

As for elimination diets, I certainly have. And 4 day fasts, etc. As I allude, when my stressors are managed, I have no trouble sticking to an optimum diet.

I know I am run down at the moment, as I am having a lot of trouble getting over a RTI that has been around for 5 weeks. Really looking forward to the holiday.

Re who reads this thread, yes I presume you are like me in that writing about this stuff helps to clarify it in your own mind, and improve your ability to communicate your ideas.

[Nobody]

Thanks for the clarification. Was trying to understand whether gout was still a problem for you with a good diet or not. Looks like not.

I'm currently eating:
Brekky : (bowl 1) oats, linseed, fruit. (bowl 2) beans, walnuts
Lunch : rice, mixed veg, broccoli, tomato paste. OR sweet potato, tomato paste
Dinner: Little to nothing. Eat some fruit, or salad, or rice cakes to satiation
Snacks : fruit (usually a meal's worth of Cal throughout the day)

Macro: ~C81:F9:P10
Density: < 1 Cal/g

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Currently reading Dr Greger's "How Not To Die".
Started with Part 2 which is what he eats and recommends. I ran an average recommended diet through Cronometer to get:

Macro: C70:F17:P13
Density: 1.1 Cal/g
Total Cal: 1623

Too much fat for chasing minimum body weight IMO. At least for me. At this stage I think he's wound up in the science - of which some could still be dubious/commercially motivated - which is fine since we need answers to specific questions. But I think this "ticking all the boxes" attitude may be clouding the bigger picture for him.

Almost all the studies are done on people with poor diets, so any addition of a particular healthy food is going to make a large difference. The real question for people already on a healthy diets is; does adding 4 times as many beans make a real difference? From what I've read from Novick on the McDougall forums, the difference gets smaller the better your diet gets. My experience has been that adding extra beans adds more body weight.

As much as I post Greger's videos, buy his book etc, I don't agree with everything he says. His diet appears to be more toward the Fuhrman extreme of nutrient dense foods more than starches.

I currently believe that if a total diet's macros, essential fats and corrected Cronometer results are all OK and it's all whole food, then there should be little more to worry about.

[Baalzamon]

[CKinnard]

Nobody, I find Americans are really low on veges and salad. So maybe Gregor is recovering from that.

Just spent the whole day with a work mate over at you know where. It was refreshing to be in the company of such friendly and wholesome people!

[Nobody]

http://www.goodfood.com.au/good-food/fo ... mgwqz.html

Another good example of why not to take dietary advice from newspaper articles. Not even a mention of a whole food vegan diet, even though it would easily be the healthiest there. I've read that nutritionists don't like it because it skips whole food groups and they have been trained to think that is bad. Well if "confections" is a food group, then I think it's safe to skip some food groups. I find it strange that dairy gets it's own food group even though it's really just part of the meat food group. Just goes to show how much influence the dairy industry has.

The Mediterranean Diet get the nod for the best diet, but that can be done poorly too. I believe the real Mediterranean Diet of 50 years ago was quite different from what most people think it is today. It was far more like WFPB then mainly due to poverty in the region.