Paediatric is a separate class of problem. And it's important to note that so often the parents are also of that similar body habitus. As for "hooked for life", I disagree and is a defeatist mentality. Through maturity, the will can develop in the right environment to action a change.ball bearing wrote:When parents feed their children greasy, sugar laden foods from their infancy there is not a lot of free-will going around. By the time they are three years-old they are hooked for life - unless they are extraordinary perceptive.
A really interesting speech on obesity
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:29 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby ZepinAtor » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:47 pm
Agree with most of the above discussion & some good info/links being posted thanks.sogood wrote: Blowing off all that smoke, it truly all comes down to that "weak will". A 1st world problem of "life is too good".
Addressing the "weak will" statement. I personally see too many people who do not like the state of their health or lack there of, the shape of their body (mainly the large variety) & do not like the food they consume.
Almost all of them do not know what to do or where to start. This I believe is where the problems stem from. They either just don't bother & continue on their miserable journey of ill health, or as already stated go on some crazy/expensive yo-yo dieting routine which inevitably fails leaving them out of pocket & disillusioned due to their "weak will".
Breaking years & years or a life time of bad habits is a tough call for anybody let alone the "weak willed" who in my opinion are doomed. I mean just look around next time you're doing the weekly shop & play spot the thin person. They're a rare breed these days due to the unlimited availability of utterly rubbish food which goes completely unmonitored into the trolley, home to the pantry/fridge then eventually into the stomachs of the entire family. It only takes one un-educated, although good intentioned member of the family who purchases all the food to start the inevitable cycle of "bad habits" & poor food choices. They (the food purchaser) mums & dads across the world are almost committing a criminal offence with the utter rubbish they're feeding their children.
We all know the detrimental effects of passive smoking for which there are laws (smoking in vehicles/public areas/enclosed spaces) to protect the young. 600,000 people world wide are reported to die yearly from passive smoking alone. Obesity related illnesses are ten times that of passive smoking, "BUT" there are "NO" laws protecting people from causing obesity.
Supermarkets = $$$ not good health
Takeaway = $$$$$$$ not good health
Health food stores = $$$ not good health
Wouldn't it be fantastic if the bar code on all items scanned at the supermarket had a sugar/fat/fibre counter attached. After you reach your quota of 50g of sugar/person/day, lights & sirens start flashing & the food police take you away for questioning. Fat chance
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:05 pm
I agree. This is where things get complicated and gives rise to the diet industry to create a multi-billion dollar commercial market. It really is a shame that citizen in the society could not make use of the simple healthy eating message that has been bombarded out from primary school days. Balanced diet (fruit, vegi, meat) and outdoor exercises. And given the liberal society attitude of individuals' rights and free market, citizen are being tempted and sucked into all the commercial food marketing. Isn't that's the state of the matter?ZepinAtor wrote:Addressing the "weak will" statement. I personally see too many people who do not like the state of their health or lack there of, the shape of their body (mainly the large variety) & do not like the food they consume.
Almost all of them do not know what to do or where to start. This I believe is where the problems stem from. They either just don't bother & continue on their miserable journey of ill health, or as already stated go on some crazy/expensive yo-yo dieting routine which inevitably fails leaving them out of pocket & disillusioned due to their "weak will".
I would further advance this. Whilst McDonald and fast foods have been branded to be the evil of our society's obesity problem. Would you agree that one can still remain trim whilst staying with McDonald food? I say yes, and another reason why it's about the will, and how one regulates one's caloric intake.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:03 pm
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby ZepinAtor » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:17 pm
That would be a case of poor diagnoses.twizzle wrote:Apparently, the blame should be laid with the GP.
The blame should be laid with the supermarkets/takeaway outlets/suppliers/parents & all governing bodies related to food sales.
Food labelling should follow that of cigarette regulations. On the side of a can of Coke should be a photo of the guy in the above article.
All lollies,chips & confectionary should be in plain grey packaging. Sorry kiddies, but suck it up & face reality
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby Mrfenejeans » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:22 pm
Nothing better than a can of coke after a long ride
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby ZepinAtor » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:32 pm
Well on that note then all cans of sugary beverages should be a warning to consume only after 2 hours of intense exercise.Mrfenejeans wrote:And we should all wear beige and become beigists http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beigist.
Nothing better than a can of coke after a long ride
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby ball bearing » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:09 pm
Don't read the following:Mrfenejeans wrote:And we should all wear beige and become beigists http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/beigist.
Nothing better than a can of coke after a long ride
"Soft drink doubles pancreatic cancer risk: study..."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-02-09/s ... udy/325222" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"One soft drink a day increases prostate cancer risk..."
http://health.ninemsn.com.au/dietandnut ... ancer-risk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"...The study, published in the respected American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, is far from the first to link the sugary soft drinks which lead to poor health. Previous research has flagged up heart attacks, diabetes,weight gain, brittle bones, pancreatic cancer, muscle weakness and paralysis as potential risks.
In the spring of 2005, research showed a strong correlation between esophageal cancer and the drinking of carbonated beverages..."
http://www.wakingtimes.com/2012/12/05/j ... 0-percent/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby elantra » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:22 pm
Beware of any medical research that gets into the news.ball bearing wrote:Do you believe that first-world humans are losing their strong will? Considering that obesity has increased along with the production of foods that are engineered to be irresistible I am reluctant to blame obese persons entirely.sogood wrote:
Blowing off all that smoke, it truly all comes down to that "weak will". A 1st world problem of "life is too good".
""Junk food 'as addictive as heroin and smoking'..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... oking.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The media objective is to sell papers - not report scientific accuracy.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:27 pm
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:53 pm
Yes, blame everyone else but picking up responsibility for oneself. Even better when there's money in return. Sometimes one wonders what's the legal profession's role in all these.twizzle wrote:Apparently, the blame should be laid with the GP.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:00 pm
Good on you for getting back to basics! They are the best for you.twizzle wrote:I spend a crapload of time in my kitchen making up the food for work so I don't succumb to buying something "easy". Everywhere you go, it's about convenience & profit.
As for profit, it doesn't stop at the corporate level. Due to severe financial cuts, even medical/health researchers have to focus on applied research that pays for the institution. Making sensationalistic headlines in the news and profit making ventures are considered to be positive outcomes for the research institution. As such, there's spin, or often synergistic spins with media outlets to report their latest work. All a bit unfortunate. Irrespective, there are still well founded research that offer valuable knowledge.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby Comedian » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:03 pm
My belief is that if everyone did an hours exercise a day they would be a lot healthier for it. Unfortunately though too many people get an a+ only for creative ways to avoid exercise.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby ZepinAtor » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:05 pm
How completely unreasonable......................people acting responsibly for the sake of their own healthsogood wrote:Yes, blame everyone else but picking up responsibility for oneself. Even when there's money in return.twizzle wrote:Apparently, the blame should be laid with the GP.
I'd almost guarantee the majority of shoppers never read the nutritional info labels & of the very small amount who do most probably don't know what they're reading anyway
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:11 pm
Mandatory MCQ at every supermarket check out. Wrong answer blocks the purchase of referenced "junk" food... Will never happen!ZepinAtor wrote:I'd almost guarantee the majority of shoppers never read the nutritional info labels & of the very small amount who do most probably don't know what they're reading anyway
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby Comedian » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:41 pm
Interestingly in some aboriginal communities they have just that. They have pre paid cards, and they can only be used to purchase healthy food from the community store. If they want to purchase junk food then that has to be paid for with cash.sogood wrote:Mandatory MCQ at every supermarket check out. Wrong answer blocks the purchase of referenced "junk" food... Will never happen!ZepinAtor wrote:I'd almost guarantee the majority of shoppers never read the nutritional info labels & of the very small amount who do most probably don't know what they're reading anyway
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby sogood » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:45 pm
Quite sad isn't it? When a society has to resort to such measures.Comedian wrote:sogood wrote:Interestingly in some aboriginal communities they have just that. They have pre paid cards, and they can only be used to purchase healthy food from the community store. If they want to purchase junk food then that has to be paid for with cash.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby Comedian » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:55 pm
Yeah it is sad. I suspect it's effective at ensuring that they provide healthy staples for their family. I can't say they looked greatly healthier than the people of other communities I've been through. I'll ask them when next I'm out that way. They are usually pretty friendly.sogood wrote:Quite sad isn't it? When a society has to resort to such measures.Comedian wrote:sogood wrote:Interestingly in some aboriginal communities they have just that. They have pre paid cards, and they can only be used to purchase healthy food from the community store. If they want to purchase junk food then that has to be paid for with cash.
I suspect there would be a snowballs chance of getting a workable variation of that scheme into general society though.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby dynamictiger » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:03 pm
In simple terms I suffer what is usually termed middle aged spread. I did not suffer middle aged spread in my 30's and it only began when i turned 40.
I did decide to do something about it. And whilst I did originally consult with a nutritionist to assist in getting myself pointed in more or less the right kind of direction overall my underlying philosiphy is pretty simple. IT TOOK NEARLY 20 YEARS TO GET THE SHAPE YOU ARE NOW. HOW CAN 1 YEAR OF CAREFUL EATING AND EXERCISE HOPE TO REVERSE THAT MANY YEARS OF 'BAD' HABITS?
Fad diets are the same. Somehow in 6,8 or 10 weeks I am going to reduce my pants size. Yes I can do it. I have in fact done it with a peak loss of nearly 3 kilograms in a week. However to achieve this I had to prepare for about 8 weeks, take a week off work by myself, I went to a gym class every day, then had morning tea, spent an hour or so in the gym, then had luinch, then went swimming for a few miles in the afternoon for 5 days in a row. Not fast just regular and I lost near 3 kilograms in a week. Which was the cause diet or exercise? Or combination of both? I don't think a fad diet could hope to acheive these sort of gains.
When I look in the mirror in the morning now, I am not where I want to be...and this is an entirely different topic...however I can see the fat previously around my upper torso sliding down my body over the weeks and forming a donut around my middle and kidneys. I imagine by this time next year if I can sustain my current regime or increase it, then I may start to see an impact on this, and perhaps the year after I may be approaching the shape I want to be in. This seems realistic or more realistic than expecting to achieve these gains in a year.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:32 am
Yes it can. This is what I did and lost 25kg. This took around 4 years. Not a crash diet, this is eating regular, normal, healthy food, just not too much! Incidentally, I have had no problems losing weight in the past on crash diets. However, I have never been able to keep the weight off because I have always seen the "diet" as temporary. However, I now continue to eat as I am now used to and my weight is stable. It would have been good if the article explained how much calorie deficit caused the participants to go into "starvation mode". My calorie deficit must not have been very much because my weight loss was slow but steady and my body didn't start storing fat.wombatK wrote:Unfortunately, some people will hear part of this report and see it as justification for why they can't lose weight.twizzle wrote:And in "news"...
Linky.
In this day and age, the underlying cause of obesity is pretty well known - yet not newsworthy. Yet it's newsworthy that the scientists understanding more about how the body goes into low-metabolism mode?
The article/research is really a critique of fad or crash diets. What it doesn't explain is weather a gradual decrease in calorie
intake and sustained increase in exercise can defeat the neuro-peptides activity. If the neuro-peptides action is
an evolutionary response to deal with starvation due to sudden events (flood, plague etc.,.), then it might make
sense that gradual changes would not be defeated by it.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:53 am
Calories in vs calories out is an incomplete fact. It absolutely matters what the quality of those calories are. Imagine in a day that my breakfast is a cup of sugar sweetened coffee with some kind if mega-muffin monstrosity that seem so popular these days. Lunch is a sandwich with a nice hunk of apple slice. Afternoon tea is chocolate. After work snack is fruit juice and toast with honey. Dinner is nachos with apple crumble, ice-cream and custard and when I get "starving" before bed time I eat a couple of spoons of icing. Compare this to a banana smoothie made with greek yoghurt, coconut milk and milk for breakfast, a coffee with no sugar for morning tea. A salad for lunch with boiled egg and an apple for dessert, half a handful of nuts for an after work snack with a glass of water and sweet potato fritters with salad for dinner followed by some nice cold watermelon. Assuming the serving sizes were appropriate so that the calories consumed on each day are exactly the same, will these two eating plans produce the same outcome? No, but according to calories in vs calories out, they should. On day one, you would experience frequent hunger. On day two, that is less likely. I know, because that is how I used to eat vs how I eat now. I used to be hungry all the time and every time I was hungry I ate. Now I am hungry at meal times and only eat then. You need a calorie deficit to lose weight but if the food you eat makes you constantly hungry, there is only a certain amount of time you will be able to withstand the hunger pangs before caving in and eating something you shouldn't.sogood wrote:KISS principle and honesty are good. Whether one can take the truth is a separate question.twizzle wrote:A rather simplistic approach given the wealth of information now available re. metabolism, hormones, food quality, studies on the effects of dieting etc. etc.
Not that I don't disagree with you that people use every excuse under the sun not to lose weight, but the mantra of "eat less, exercise more" is completely useless at getting people to change, and unlikely to succeed. Given that calories appears to be hopeless measure of "fuel value", and that "dieting" is statistically a waste of time, people need more concrete advice than "eat less" and "you are weak willed".
Everyone is different - genetics, their ability to extract glucose from food, their hormone responses to food intake. "Dieting" is not the solution.
You are absolutely right, the plethora of diets, diet helps, diet theory are there to "entertain", to educate and to motivate, all psychological therapy than direct weight loss therapy. At the end of the day, they all fall back to the common pathway of calories in vs calories out.
Blowing off all that smoke, it truly all comes down to that "weak will". A 1st world problem of "life is too good".
Yes, there is actual research that demonstrates this: http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/51. Worth a read.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:02 am
I can't agree with "hooked for life". I used to think that I was addicted to sugar and that I could never break the addiction. Not true. Once I started eating home made whole foods, I stopped craving sugar. The rest was breaking habits. So, if I was used to eating at 3:00 in the afternoon, I would get hungry at 3:00 in the afternoon. It didn't matter what I had for lunch. I defeated the habits by eating healthy snacks at those times, say a piece of fruit and some nuts, then cutting the quantity, then cutting the snack all together. Now I just eat mainly at meal times. I might have half a handful of nuts with I get home from work but I now eat 3 or 4 times a day. I used to eat 9 or more!sogood wrote:Paediatric is a separate class of problem. And it's important to note that so often the parents are also of that similar body habitus. As for "hooked for life", I disagree and is a defeatist mentality. Through maturity, the will can develop in the right environment to action a change.ball bearing wrote:When parents feed their children greasy, sugar laden foods from their infancy there is not a lot of free-will going around. By the time they are three years-old they are hooked for life - unless they are extraordinary perceptive.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:05 am
I find the same thing. If I buy lunch, even from a place that serves healthier food, I am always hungry before I leave from home. This is obvious with junk food but what about a large slice of vegetable quiche with chick peas and salad? I would have thought that would keep me going but it doesn't. Only the food I make at home and take to work keep me going until home time, which is a real PITA!twizzle wrote:I have to be pretty careful about what I eat these days. The result is that I can't access food easily anywhere - the Q & D solutions are things like tinned sardines/smoked fish/deli meats with a salad kit from Coles. Just about everything else on the shelves is on my "avoid" list. Check out a vending machine anywhere - 99% is loaded with sugar while proudly proclaiming that it's "low fat". I spend a crapload of time in my kitchen making up the food for work so I don't succumb to buying something "easy". Everywhere you go, it's about convenience & profit.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby Toolish » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:17 pm
Based on what I have learnt in the last couple of weeks it is probably because most places that sell you food like that still add sugar to the mix, which spikes insulin and the hormonal response is to get hungry again.casual_cyclist wrote:I find the same thing. If I buy lunch, even from a place that serves healthier food, I am always hungry before I leave from home. This is obvious with junk food but what about a large slice of vegetable quiche with chick peas and salad? I would have thought that would keep me going but it doesn't. Only the food I make at home and take to work keep me going until home time, which is a real PITA!twizzle wrote:I have to be pretty careful about what I eat these days. The result is that I can't access food easily anywhere - the Q & D solutions are things like tinned sardines/smoked fish/deli meats with a salad kit from Coles. Just about everything else on the shelves is on my "avoid" list. Check out a vending machine anywhere - 99% is loaded with sugar while proudly proclaiming that it's "low fat". I spend a crapload of time in my kitchen making up the food for work so I don't succumb to buying something "easy". Everywhere you go, it's about convenience & profit.
I have spent my life battling my weight. I do a tonne of exercise, 6-10 hours a week of dedicated exercise time depending on the week, but don't lose weight. I have done 3 half ironman triathlons, still no weight loss.
At one stage I got almost to a good weight which was when I was at university and I was often home at lunch time and had no money for take away so I would buy bulk chicken and veges and pretty much lived off that. In hindsight I was eating low cals but also low carb. I wasn't hungry, I was running a bit, but it was mainly that I ate good quality food.
I have tried restricting calories and I end up absolutely starved...I am looking now at lowering carbs and upping fat and protein to see how that goes.
I am currently reading "Why we get fat, and what to do about it" : http://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Get-Fat-Ab ... 0307474259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Worth a read if you enjoyed the youtube speech. Also Vinnie Tortorich has a podcast worth a listen on this sort of thing (although it does get pretty off topic)
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity
Postby sogood » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:59 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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