A really interesting speech on obesity

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sogood
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:30 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:But there are MILLIONS out there and they are NOT all weak willed and inferior beings undeserving of the pure and beautiful temples that we all think we have earned by the sheer weight of some innate superiority. That does NOT explain why things are so different today as it was in our parent s and grandparents day. Blaming the internet and TV and lack of work ethic does not cut it...
"Weak willed" does not make one "inferior". That's just a part of the range of human personality traits.

Fact is, there is no obesity problem in a famine. As such, even genetic, biochemical and other psychological traits can be overcomed by simple caloric reduction. To lose weight, one just have to do it, and do it right. No ifs ands or buts.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:44 am

sogood wrote:Fact is, there is no obesity problem in a famine. As such, even genetic, biochemical and other psychological traits can be overcomed by simple caloric reduction. To lose weight, one just have to do it, and do it right. No ifs ands or buts.
Your starting argument was a simple one liner that is dismissive of things that are complicated. And this is just one more of the same.
sogood wrote:Intellectualising and sensationalising to the Nth degree are mere excuses to those who "can't lose weight". Eat less "rubbish food", eat healthy, exercise more and you are guaranteed to lose weight. Yes, there'll be an initial period where one will feel different and uncomfortable, but weight loss will ensue. Excuses will just fog one's objective.
Unfortunately, and much as people may like it to be otherwise, most things in life are NOT simple to explain, diet and obesity being one of them. And it needs explaining, not explaining away.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:50 am

ColinOldnCranky wrote:Your starting argument was a simple one liner that is dismissive of things that are complicated. And this is just one more of the same.
Weight loss and control of obesity does not have to be complicated. It's only complicated when people tries to compromise their worldly desires. As said, obesity is never a problem in a famine or during wars. And people still live through it.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:03 pm

sogood wrote:As said, obesity is never a problem in a famine or during wars.
Doesn't take much willpower when there isn't any food available.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:10 pm

twizzle wrote:
sogood wrote:As said, obesity is never a problem in a famine or during wars.
Doesn't take much willpower when there isn't any food available.
That's enforced. But in our 1st world environment where supply easily covers demands, will power is what it takes.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:22 pm

sogood wrote:
twizzle wrote:
sogood wrote:As said, obesity is never a problem in a famine or during wars.
Doesn't take much willpower when there isn't any food available.
That's enforced. But in our 1st world environment where supply easily covers demands, will power is what it takes.
Then stop bringing up war/famine as a comparison.

I'd be willing to bet your willpower is just as weak as everyone elses. And if you refute this, how about you prove it by going without food for the next seven days and report back when you succeed.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:58 pm

:wink:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:I see a mountain of hubris here.
Agreed. I hope I'm not contributing to that. I try not to.
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Yes, some fat or less healthy people find excuses and are the master of their own misfortune. But there are MILLIONS out there and they are NOT all weak willed and inferior beings undeserving of the pure and beautiful temples that we all think we have earned by the sheer weight of some innate superiority.
I agree with you that obesity is not a function of will. I have been obese and now I am at a 'normal' weight. My will power has not changed. Being weak willed did not make me obese.
ColinOldnCranky wrote:Well guys, it's luck. It is luck because no-one can explain WHY these noble attributes that people are claiming are with them and not with others. When we can explain why it is then it ceases to be luck. It instead has an inevitability.
I don't agree it's luck either. As far as I can tell it comes down to a basic understanding of what to eat and how much. People eat a lot of processed food which are hyperpalatable and yet unsatisfying which means that in the first place they consume too many calories but later are hungry again and consume more calories to compensate. We are also a nation of chronic overeaters. This can partly be explained by hyperpalatable foods but not completely. Perhaps it is a function of being raised in a post-war era with food abundance by war parents who lived through a time of food scarcity. However, none of this explains why some people are susceptible to overeating and some are not. This is simply not understood.

My point is that researchers believe that conditioned hypereaters can take back control. However, this is going to going take massive changes in the way we manufacture and market food. Pretty much not going to happen. People could learn how to not overeat but it would take a massive education campaign and people would need to be motivated to change. Some people are not motivated to change and this is another not understood piece of the puzzle. How come one overweight person wants to be healthier but another doesn't? Nobody knows.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/comp ... to-stop-it

There is also an element of food security where people on lower incomes value energy (calories) over nutrition. Calories are cheap, nutrients are not. Compare the price of an apple pie to apples in terms of energy/$ and you will get the idea.

Overall though I have not seen a convincing model which explains why so many people are obese. It really is unprecedented and cannot be simply explained away by "will".
ColinOldnCranky wrote:When many of you guys are fifty or sixty or seventy and have fallen behind then it will not necessarily be because you are weaker or less deserving than me or someone else here. But if you too easily dismiss others out there as weaker and less deserving then there will be some ironic justice in your misfortune.
Things change as we age and we need to adjust our eating accordingly. Those who don't will end up fat. Personally, I weigh less than I did 15 years ago because back then I ate a lot of energy dense/nutritionally poor foods. I have swapped this around and now eat mostly nutritionally dense/energy poor foods which I plan to continue eating for life. I can't prove that this will keep me lean until 50, 60 or 70 but I am confident that it will. For those who don't I don't see them as "weaker and less deserving". It took me 42 years to figure out what to eat and I have two degrees including a masters. I don't judge people who have not figured it out yet because I didn't find it easy and I don't imagine it would be easy for them either. In this regard I find the common advice to "eat less and exercise more and you will lose weight" spectacularly unhelpful.
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For an angry rant, you made a lot of sense
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:40 pm

twizzle wrote:Then stop bringing up war/famine as a comparison.

I'd be willing to bet your willpower is just as weak as everyone elses. And if you refute this, how about you prove it by going without food for the next seven days and report back when you succeed.
War and famine are the hard evidence that weight loss can be achieved, irrespective of genetic and other biological factors. Ignore that and we can get back to the big buck diet business.

I have never promoted mine or anyone else's will power, but simply pointing out that will power will determine the outcome. If the attempt is half hearted with lots of excuses, then there will be no weight loss.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:10 pm

sogood wrote:
twizzle wrote:Then stop bringing up war/famine as a comparison.

I'd be willing to bet your willpower is just as weak as everyone elses. And if you refute this, how about you prove it by going without food for the next seven days and report back when you succeed.
War and famine are the hard evidence that weight loss can be achieved, irrespective of genetic and other biological factors. Ignore that and we can get back to the big buck diet business.

I have never promoted mine or anyone else's will power, but simply pointing out that will power will determine the outcome. If the attempt is half hearted with lots of excuses, then there will be no weight loss.
There is no way it is as simple as will power. The hard cold reality is that obese peoples brains work differently to normal weight peoples brains. http://technorati.com/lifestyle/article ... -a-recent/

The part of the article I liked best is this: "if ONE IS CONSCIOUS that he or she has that malfunction in the prefrontal cortex. One can perhaps retrain or rewire himself/herself, creating new pathways of behavior and reaction". This implies that a person must become self-aware if they want to lose weight and keep it off.

This is what it took for me to go from an obese adult to a normal weight adult, a process that took many years:

1. recognition that I was obese and needed to do something about it

2. becoming aware that I felt stressed when eating and training myself to calm down and relax when eating

3. realising that I ate way too fast and training myself to slow down, chew my food and actually enjoy the flavours of my food. This was
my hardest habit to break and took a lot of practice.

4. reducing my portion sizes because they were too big, initially by reducing the size of dinner plate I used and later by crude measurement (because I refuse to calorie count or weigh my food)

5. learning to stop eating when I felt full instead of overeating. Considering I had overeaten for my entire life, this was not easy to do

6. before eating anything to be more aware of if I was actually hungry or eating out of habit, boredom, stress, because I was thirsty or eating out of habit

7. switching from high sugar foods (like flavoured yoghurt) to no sugar alternatives (like plain greek yoghurt)

8. switching to whole food based snacks like apples, cheese and nuts instead of processed foods. This required planning ahead and buying these foods in advance. I found that if I had ready access to healthy alternatives I wasn't tempted to snack on processed foods.

9. switching meals to whole food based meals like salads and home made curries instead of processed foods. This required planning ahead, buying food in advance and preparing it in advance.

10. switching to water instead of calorie laden drinks like soft drinks, flavoured milks and fruit juice

Of course this hasn't been easy and you will notice that 1-6 are behavioural/cognitive and nothing to do with what I was eating. The behavioural/cognitive skills were the hardest to master and took the most effort. The actual food related steps 7-10 were easy and take virtually no will power at all although preparing meals in advance does take some effort.

I wouldn't say that obese people lack will power. I would say they lack self-awareness and have bad eating habits along with making food choices that perpetuate their obesity.

Some light reading:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162- ... 91704.html
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/be ... -willpower
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dr-khan ... 25514.html
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby twizzle » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:48 pm

sogood wrote:
twizzle wrote:Then stop bringing up war/famine as a comparison.

I'd be willing to bet your willpower is just as weak as everyone elses. And if you refute this, how about you prove it by going without food for the next seven days and report back when you succeed.
War and famine are the hard evidence that weight loss can be achieved, irrespective of genetic and other biological factors. Ignore that and we can get back to the big buck diet business.

I have never promoted mine or anyone else's will power, but simply pointing out that will power will determine the outcome. If the attempt is half hearted with lots of excuses, then there will be no weight loss.
Once again laying the blame purely on the person rather than all of the other factors. Fat people should just starve themselves.

I was riding 260km a week (my average over two years), racing (irregularly), watching what I ate and couldn't lose weight. Since being forced to skip all of the first world crap, I've lost 12.2kg in seven months. I'd like to lose another five kg's - at the moment my body seems to have other ideas. If I'd known how much I was being affected by *what* I was eating as opposed to only worrying about the calories, I would have changed the diet years ago.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:53 pm

sogood wrote:War and famine are the hard evidence that weight loss can be achieved, irrespective of genetic and other biological factors. Ignore that and we can get back to the big buck diet business.
To state the obvious those in famines are not necessarily in weight control. They are more likely to be in a state of malnutirtion. And malnutrition will certainly prevent obesity for most people. So will chaemotherapy, cholera, consumption, etc etc. Wow - light bulb moment - cholera proves that weight loss can be achieved. Sorry sogood but it is hard not to laugh.

But if it needs to be conceded then yes, I concede that starvation and obesity tend to be mutually exclsuive. Not a great deal of use to explaining most of the granularity in the pupulation fo the obese. Such as why the obesity epidemic is contemporary, why it has got worse at the times. And why babies are getting obese.

btw, I doubt if many people in a famine torn country will be drinking a significant quantity of products laced with high fructose corn syrup. Perhaps that is why they are skinny. :roll:
Last edited by ColinOldnCranky on Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:56 pm

twizzle wrote:Then stop bringing up war/famine as a comparison.
Why do I have in my head a image of a lanky pom shouting and goose stepping. :mrgreen:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:18 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:The behavioural/cognitive skills were the hardest to master and took the most effort. The actual food related steps 7-10 were easy and take virtually no will power at all although preparing meals in advance does take some effort.

I wouldn't say that obese people lack will power. I would say they lack self-awareness and have bad eating habits along with making food choices that perpetuate their obesity.
Your detailed steps put you way in front of me as I still think that the difference between as I am and as you were is really easy to for me to traverse - MY hip going, soemthing like that, as I still eat far too much and break my intention sona daily basis. I'm not excessivley weak but I have fat friends with more will power than me. The day I am unable to carry out the amount of activity I currently indjulge in I will have to face all those earlier points you listed. There is no guarantee that I will succeed, simply because most people do not. You have - puts you in a minority - so well done (with a touch of envy).

Sogood and others may think they have it all covered too. But like most mortals I doubt that many of them have all the bases covered, just enough of them to get a satisfactory result under present circumstances. If/when they lose one or two bases life may not be so easily explained.

Good nutritional advice is handy base to cover. (I think that is what Twizzle was aluding to.) Which is the bailiwick of the video presenter. But what would he know! :mrgreen: Complicating such a simple issue as obesity! It's all about will power and fat lazy people! Obesity in the twentieth and twenty first century is now solved. Now we can all tackle world peace.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:58 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:To state the obvious those in famines are not necessarily in weight control. They are more likely to be in a state of malnutirtion.
This is exactly the problem!

The problem with most 1st world men and women is that they/we consider normal nutrition to be way over what's truly required by the body for health. Too many times people confuse themself b/n suitable nutrition and excess proteins/calories. Big bulky muscles (or slim rounded definition) may have benefits in the mating game, but they don't necessarily bring health and longevity. With such a wide range of what's considered to be normal nutrition, there's plenty of room to tighten one's stomach and bring that weight down for good.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:30 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:The day I am unable to carry out the amount of activity I currently indjulge in I will have to face all those earlier points you listed. There is no guarantee that I will succeed, simply because most people do not. You have - puts you in a minority - so well done (with a touch of envy).
In this regard I would recommend the practice of mindful eating. To this day I still have to use yoga breathing at times to calm down while I am eating. My view is that it is a skill that needs to be learned and practiced to master. And for those of us who have been mindlessly eating for most of our lives, it's pretty hard!
Mindful eating has the powerful potential to transform people’s relationship to food and eating, to improve overall health, body image, relationships and self-esteem. Mindful eating involves many components such as:
• learning to make choices in beginning or ending a meal based on awareness of hunger and satiety cues;
• learning to identify personal triggers for mindless eating, such as emotions, social pressures, or certain foods;
• valuing quality over quantity of what you’re eating;
• appreciating the sensual, as well as the nourishing, capacity of food;
• feeling deep gratitude that may come from appreciating and experiencing food
http://www.tcme.org/
http://www.tcme.org/principles.htm

Apart from that, I find it useful to know that if I buy it, I will eat it. For me, healthy eating starts at the supermarket. Although I won't eat a packet of tim-tams in a day like I used to, I know if I buy one I will eventually eat the whole pack. These days I just leave it on the shelf.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby sogood » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:46 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:In this regard I would recommend the practice of mindful eating. To this day I still have to use yoga breathing at times to calm down while I am eating. My view is that it is a skill that needs to be learned and practiced to master. And for those of us who have been mindlessly eating for most of our lives, it's pretty hard.
Good insight is the first step towards recovery. You've got it! :!: :wink:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:57 am

sogood wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:In this regard I would recommend the practice of mindful eating. To this day I still have to use yoga breathing at times to calm down while I am eating. My view is that it is a skill that needs to be learned and practiced to master. And for those of us who have been mindlessly eating for most of our lives, it's pretty hard.
Good insight is the first step towards recovery. You've got it! :!: :wink:
Um.. yeah... I've been in the 'normal' weight range for almost a year now so I would say that I am a long way from my first step... :lol:
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:01 am

sogood wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:To state the obvious those in famines are not necessarily in weight control. They are more likely to be in a state of malnutirtion.
This is exactly the problem!

The problem with most 1st world men and women is that they/we consider normal nutrition to be way over what's truly required by the body for health.
I wonder if this is a post war thing or just related to hyperpalatable foods? Either way, it definitely contributes to obesity. I have been following the Okinawa story for a while and traditionally Okinwans would eat to about 80% full. Traditionally they were some of the longest living people on the planet. Unfortunately now, with the introduction of white flour, white sugar, fast food and spam, the population is becoming obese and are no longer long lived. Pity.

The take home message is that long term calorie restriction is required to maintain normal body weight.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:16 am

casual_cyclist wrote:
sogood wrote:
ColinOldnCranky wrote:To state the obvious those in famines are not necessarily in weight control. They are more likely to be in a state of malnutirtion.
This is exactly the problem!

The problem with most 1st world men and women is that they/we consider normal nutrition to be way over what's truly required by the body for health.
I wonder if this is a post war thing or just related to hyperpalatable foods? Either way, it definitely contributes to obesity. I have been following the Okinawa story for a while and traditionally Okinwans would eat to about 80% full. Traditionally they were some of the longest living people on the planet. Unfortunately now, with the introduction of white flour, white sugar, fast food and spam, the population is becoming obese and are no longer long lived. Pity.

The take home message is that long term calorie restriction is required to maintain normal body weight.
THese days I always have a little chuckle when the longevity of the Japanese is used to support an argument. The japanese secret to longevity - :mrgreen: http://observer.com/2010/08/revealed-th ... longevity/
But a recent headcount of the nation’s 40,399 centenarians has turned up another intriguing explanation for how so many Japanese manage to hang on to life. [Cue: "Law & Order" thunk-thunk...] They’re dead!
Have a read, the scamming with dead relatives is quite an interesting little story. :lol:

A bit more seriously though, the Lancet did an edition on longevity in the Japanese population a few years back. Identified that it's major contributing factor was it's universal health care system but that lifestyle changes are more and more working to defeat it - diet, exercise, smoking, obesity, suicide, etc. (Observation - the Lancet could, I suppose, have an axe to grind wrt such health care systems, though they are also one of the more trusted institutes in the world.)

Japanese longevity is overwhelmingly seen in the women. Do they eat that much differently? Stats should always be looked at carefully and deeply and studied at a granular level. A practice we should apply when introducing Dutch cycling into an argument for example.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:26 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:I have been following the Okinawa story for a while and traditionally Okinawans would eat to about 80% full. Traditionally they were some of the longest living people on the planet. Unfortunately now, with the introduction of white flour, white sugar, fast food and spam, the population is becoming obese and are no longer long lived. Pity.

The take home message is that long term calorie restriction is required to maintain normal body weight.
THese days I always have a little chuckle when the longevity of the Japanese is used to support an argument. The japanese secret to longevity - :mrgreen: http://observer.com/2010/08/revealed-th ... longevity/
"But a recent headcount of the nation’s 40,399 centenarians has turned up another intriguing explanation for how so many Japanese manage to hang on to life. [Cue: "Law & Order" thunk-thunk...] They’re dead!" Have a read, the scamming with dead relatives is quite an interesting little story. :lol:
That is hilarious!
ColinOldnCranky wrote:A bit more seriously though, the Lancet did an edition on longevity in the Japanese population a few years back.
I don't think the Okinawans would like being lumped in with the Japanese... :lol:

It's interesting that other claims of unprecedented concentrations of centenarians have been disproven in other areas too. "In-depth studies of these populations have shown that age-exaggeration is rampant and life expectancy is actually shorter than in the U.S., nor are there high concentrations of centenarians."

However, "In Okinawa, a family registry (Koseki) dates back to 1879 so age verification is possible for all citizens, including centenarians."

You are correct in Okinawa that there is a high proportion of women (85%) however, in Sardinia (which also has a high concentration of centenarians) high prevalence of male centenarians. I would be interesting if these populations could be studied a bit more indepth to see what lifestyle factors contribute to long life.

http://www.okicent.org/cent.html
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby durianrider » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:56 pm

Wakatuki wrote:
durianrider wrote: 100% protein and fat diet eh? Like Dr Atkins diet? He died with heart disease and was 258lb of obesity. http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The website title you send us to seems to be rather err one sided with a title like that. Similar to http://www.mymatesaysfordsarerubbishbyholden.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; say if you were looking at a new FPV and not an SS! :P

But Atkins Wiki link would seem a little more neutral, and to be honest at 72, obese, who cares.. Enjoy life. Just like the fat royals did, not just eating meat, that was easy to find, but fruit and wines were not in abundance unless you were a king, AKA sugar, "carbs" and if I were to be king and my life expectancy, healthy or not is 40, if your lucky, or maybe this new disease floating around would get you next week. Been wondering what that weeping sore was..

Now, I don't preach how meat is murder, lovely juicy tender murder. So please refrain from telling me how I'm doing so bad on my chosen path. There were not many fatties in the war years, or 70's or 80's only with the new corn starch revolution did this crisis all begin. Plenty of docos out there.

Now back to me; ran my first 5k complete this morning no stopping, after getting off my behind in Aug2012 after being at rest 20+ years. I only began running 6 weeks ago.
You want to lose weight, EVERYONE strengthen your mind, no matter what food path you take.
Durianrider I am happy to add some of your foods into my regime, but I will not drop animal products, sorry.

Also you are aware that before the global market, fruit, the sweet fruit, would only fall from the tree at one time of year, Summer, get fattened on that and wait for the winter as few fruit and veggies then, have to go for.... Animal Protiens. It's always easy to spot Bambi when the trees have shed the leaves!
No offense bro but sugary fruit is an all year food. Look at bananas, papaya, mangoe, jack fruit etc in the tropics. Tell me humans aint designed to live in the tropics now and that Dr Atkins diet will make you into a lean mean fitness machine like Durianrider. ;)

The very foods you don't want to give up are the foods that are the cause of obesity. Where are the obese fruitarians and rice munching vegans that follow a low fat high carb vegan diet. IMPOSSIBLE. Just as its impossible to have an overweight spider from eating too many flies. When we eat our natural diet we are slim. Human bones are not meant for that much weight or acid by-products from the consumption of animal fat and protein hence why all the leading cancer clinics on earth put their patients on a low fat high carb vegan diet. Gerson Clinic etc.

Am I the only one here with single digit body fat the last 12 years? Let me know if Im not. I don't calorie restrict. I eat UNLIMITED calories EVERY meal. I believe its not how much you eat its WHAT YOU EAT!

People try and tell me that a ballerina is going to look, feel and perform the same on 3000cals of steamed organic rice, fruits and veg as 3000cals of meat, eggs and cheese!!!

LOL!!! :P

Here is my girlfriend. On the left calorie restricting and eating high protein low carb. On the right eating UNLIMITED cals from quality whole plant food source of carbs whilst following a vegan diet and LESS training.
Vegan since 2001.

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casual_cyclist
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:17 pm

durianrider wrote:Am I the only one here with single digit body fat the last 12 years? Let me know if Im not. I don't calorie restrict. I eat UNLIMITED calories EVERY meal.
You do not eat UNLIMITED calories EVERY meal. What you mean is that you don't limit yourself to a particular number of calories at a meal. Your stomach does that. If you ate UNLIMITED calories at EVERY meal you would EXPLODE! :lol:

I don't LIMIT myself to ANY particular CALORIE count at ANY meal I eat EVERY day. Does that MEAN that I am some KIND of SUPERHERO too? PMSL.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:20 pm

Back to the topic, one guys theory on why we eat so much...

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com.a ... gical.html

I loled at the bit about the meeting... how much can I identify with that?
One of his co-workers brought donuts, but Jim has told himself he won't eat them. In any case, he's not hungry at all. Unfortunately, he's sitting within arm's reach of the donuts, and the meeting is boring.
However, unlike Jim, I find it easy to say no.
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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby twizzle » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:35 pm

durianrider wrote: No offense bro....
... but you sound just like all the other crackpots saying "follow my weird-arse celebrity diet that works for people like me".

And please be specific about type of sugars if you are going to say "sugar is good" (and in one case "white sugar"), then hold up fruit as an example of "sugar" when you obviously meant "fructose".
I ride, therefore I am. But don't ride into harm's way.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...

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Re: A really interesting speech on obesity

Postby casual_cyclist » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:14 pm

twizzle wrote:
durianrider wrote: No offense bro....
... but you sound just like all the other crackpots saying "follow my weird-arse celebrity diet that works for people like me".

And please be specific about type of sugars if you are going to say "sugar is good" (and in one case "white sugar"), then hold up fruit as an example of "sugar" when you obviously meant "fructose".
"Sugar" in terms of diet is meaningless. Fruit can have Glucose, Galactose, Fructose, Sucrose or Maltose in different combinations. The white table (cane) sugar we refer to as "sugar" is sucrose which is present in apple, apricots and bananas etc. But you can also get "sugar" from sugarbeet. Anyway, we should really be talking about dietary "sugars", which also includes lactose, rather than "sugar".

Check this out: Sugar Content of Fruit

http://thepaleodiet.com/fruits-and-sugars/

"M & M chocolate candy" and "Lifesavers" are fruits now? Awesome! :lol:
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