Protein supplement

[insightt47]

I just started using a protein supplement in powder form which has a bit of creatine mixed into it too. It may be too early to tell but after using it for a week im sure its working? i.e. quicker recovery, less pain in my legs, able to ride harder for longer. I realise the creatine will take a few weeks to build up but the protein feels like its working already. The creatine should be good for those sprint efforts which is the main reason i bought it.

Has anybody else had any experience with creatine or protien supplements. FYI i train daily and really try to push myself.

[Xplora]

Same deal for me... I am guessing you might be benefiting from the creatine a bit, but it's mostly the protein right now. Creatine needs some loading time, and it won't do anything unless you are doing Z7 efforts (you'll get the best benefit from sub 20s intervals, chemically speaking). Like myself, I would think that there is probably something important in there that you were missing, and you certainly notice it when it's put in there... like a jigsaw puzzle that isn't missing a piece? Keep taking it consistently and assess. Also diarise your OTHER foods. I've been a lot more consistent with my steak intake recently too

[insightt47]

Same deal for me... I am guessing you might be benefiting from the creatine a bit, but it's mostly the protein right now. Creatine needs some loading time, and it won't do anything unless you are doing Z7 efforts (you'll get the best benefit from sub 20s intervals, chemically speaking). Like myself, I would think that there is probably something important in there that you were missing, and you certainly notice it when it's put in there... like a jigsaw puzzle that isn't missing a piece? Keep taking it consistently and assess. Also diarise your OTHER foods. I've been a lot more consistent with my steak intake recently too

Thanks for the reply, so you think i should be doing sprints in 20 second intervals? Thats quite a long time, I think i'll konk out at about 10 sec haha

Whats Z7?

[Xplora]

I will blissfully walk into this as if you aren't trolling me (I honestly can't tell anymore hehehe)

I thought you had a power meter? All good, don't need one. If you are pushing a medium/high gear past 110rpm, you'll be guaranteed to be past VO2Max. If you're doing 55+kmh on the flat, you're past VO2max as well.

The creatine is going to help with your phosphate (sprint) energy system - the first 10-12 seconds of an explosive effort is phosphate, then you switch to glycogen, then once your legs feel like cement you are back to fats. Aerobic burns fats, anaerobic burns sugars, phosphate uses creatine and a couple other goodies. You've noticed that you can jump out of the saddle, blitz for a couple seconds, and you don't get that heavy feeling in the legs? That's your sprint system working, NOT your anaerobic system.

There is a bunch of crossover and grey, I keep it simple because it doesn't help getting overly complicated about this stuff. Weightlifters use creatine supplements because a max lift is about 2-5 seconds of explosive effort. They will constantly be utilising their sprint system. For riding, that means a strong effort over 10 seconds, then rest a minute or two, and go again. You shouldn't get much cement legs from it.

There is epic amounts of bro science here. Essentially, creatine doesn't do *&^% to help you ride a century. Or even a crit. It helps you develop your sprint ability by providing a slightly bigger reserve of sprint capacity, so you can train harder to cope with sprinting or short pinch climbs or breakaways. We might only be talking "10 seconds of sprint, instead of 8" but that's a lot of extra acceleration to train with. All I know is that my last race, I won with a sprint, and that was my second PB for the day. (first in warmup) Managed 67kmh both times. Not bad for a slow twitch break specialist.

Search phosphate energy system training in Google, that'll give you some more direction on what I'm talking about. When most training is "ride fast tempo 2 hours" or "ride 2x20 with 5 min recovery in between" this sprint business is quite different to approach. You'll want to use your Look for this stuff as well, you'll find out if your bike is a noodle with this training

Hope that helps.

[brawlo]

I have been using protein isolate powder for nearly 3 years now. What I have found through my own experimentation is that it's only truly beneficial to me as the immediate post exercise hit. If I take it at any other time, or if I miss that window of 30min or less post exercise, it doesn't do the job properly. I started taking for what seems similar reasons to yourself, prolonged pain in legs, etc. I only take it after a really hard effort. That could be after a really hard track training session, race, or weights session. I haven't dabbled with creatine, although it seems it may be of benefit to me.

[Xplora]

Yep, it's got to be a bit on the obsessive side of usage... I think the puzzle pieces is the best way of thinking about it. The diet might be dipping a bit on one of the 9 amino acids but if that's the one you need to prevent excessive soreness then supplementation will help.

I have a constant need for magnesium, even outside exercise. Apparently fish and nuts have a lot compared to other foods. Have you seen the price of nuts and fish if you don't like peanuts or tuna? I don't eat anything that regularly either... I mix it up every day. It's just more effective to take a tablet for me. I think shortcuts that are truly effective are worth the money spent.

[g-boaf]

I just started using a protein supplement in powder form which has a bit of creatine mixed into it too. It may be too early to tell but after using it for a week im sure its working? i.e. quicker recovery, less pain in my legs, able to ride harder for longer. I realise the creatine will take a few weeks to build up but the protein feels like its working already. The creatine should be good for those sprint efforts which is the main reason i bought it.

Has anybody else had any experience with creatine or protien supplements. FYI i train daily and really try to push myself.

So far I've not been trying any of those things - I'm just getting by with the food I'm eating, what I drink and the training I'm doing. I'm doing okay I guess, but this morning the muscle soreness hit me like a proverbial freight train. Legs feeling like they were bags of concrete. I haven't had that for a long while.

[nirismo]

Protein Supplements helps if you haven't been getting enough of it through your foods. However, It is a waste of money if you don't eat the right foods with it.


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[insightt47]

Xplora why do you think I'm trolling? Do i sound that dumb? haha

Im an Exercise Physiologist so I spent years learning about that stuff but to be honest it was so long ago i think i need to do some revision. These days all i'm doing is rehabbing people with pilates exercises haha

I'll read up on training programs for sprint ability and se how i go

[Xplora]

I'm not saying you are trolling. There are.... some.... who don't appreciate my contributions and unfortunately, being ignorant and being a sarcastic troll can look the same. I can help, if you want to know. Right now I'm so close to just having three workouts and ignoring the rest that its not funny. 100+ kms, short hill repeats and threshold intervals. And race every week too. BAM. Genius coaching, or tired of overly complicated training?

I hear you on the rehab stuff. I studied psych and all I ended up learning from that is that you have to be deeply careful about making assumptions about human behaviour. The research changes every 5 years anyway.

If you do any reading at all, you'll come away a better rider for it. I was personally quite struck at how little training on sprint power is recommended - obviously being able to hold a wheel at 40kmh for 2 hours requires a lot more training than nothing, but if you can't seal the deal then what is the point? That's why I decided to work on building some explosive muscle.

[brawlo]

Protein Supplements helps if you haven't been getting enough of it through your foods. However, It is a waste of money if you don't eat the right foods with it.

This is certainly what I have been lead to believe. However in my personal experimentation, I believe I am eating fairly well, hence why taking protein outside of the post exercise intake doesn't seem to give me any benefit. I also don't take it after all exercise. I take it after weights because I push myself hard in some exercise each session. Recovery time has decreased. I don't take it after a social ride, even if that ride is taking me towards my limit. I do take it after a race on the road or after a track night of racing, because that effort is at a higher level than normal and is what was leaving my legs sore. After I finished my first course of protein, I dabbled with food replacement, but none of that gets it to your body at the speed it seems to require.

The only supplement that did work besides protein was spirulina powder, but I'll be sticking to my protein powder thanks. Spirulina is good, but if you've ever taken the powder, you'll know why I stopped. I have traded whey protein for pea protein though, after reading some internet ramblings relating prolonged use of WPI to kidney problems.

[##Baldy##]

So from a newbie, is there anything that you would recommend to take for a cyclist. Sitting at 92 kgs looking to loose a bit more and riding 3-4 rides a week in bunch rides most times 30 to 35 kmph average for 40 km. Just cant seem to stick with the fast guys. Is there anything that will help me hang on longer or just pumping out the Kms.

[toolonglegs]

Steady diet of KM's is the answer along with losing excess weight.
Pretty hard to be deficient of anything in a modern diet ... Although plenty of people don't drink enough fluids.
Not sure how fast your "fast guys" are... But if they are of a reasonable level they are probably doing about 250 to 400kms per week min.

[insightt47]

In the current heat gatorade or powerade is a must and im starting to believe in the protein powder. I swear my legs are getting bigger! Maybe i was deficient in protein beforehand and now im getting enough. I cycle 700km/week (there goes my line "only done 200km" when/if iever i sell my look frame).

[Xplora]

Baldy, BCAAs will help recovery and staying power... search Recuper8 Bulk Nutrients in google. that's a good combo of a few things. Drink 500ml 30 minutes before riding, 500ml during your ride, another 500ml after. The rides are really short.

[g-boaf]

So from a newbie, is there anything that you would recommend to take for a cyclist. Sitting at 92 kgs looking to loose a bit more and riding 3-4 rides a week in bunch rides most times 30 to 35 kmph average for 40 km. Just cant seem to stick with the fast guys. Is there anything that will help me hang on longer or just pumping out the Kms.

As others have said, more kilometres (300-400+km per week). That will get your legs used to the distances (it will become easier), and then you should start looking at some specific training routines to focus on areas where you are deficient.

You'd probably do them on alternate weeks however. One week with big kilometres, one week with the higher intensity rides (shorter). That's what I've been doing. I can't do both in the same week - I just end up completely ruined if I try.

You could then try some supplements mentioned above.

[insightt47]

I'm not saying you are trolling. There are.... some.... who don't appreciate my contributions and unfortunately, being ignorant and being a sarcastic troll can look the same

Personally I appreciate your contributions. With that many posts you must have something useful to say

[Xplora]

insight, I'll let you know if it ever happens

Back on the gear as of today. Couple weeks off the creatine. Got hammered today by the sprinters...

[captain peacock]

creatine has shown to be a waste of time for endurance athletes, it may provide a slight boost in high intensity anaerobic efforts and the amount of benefit is dependent on how much creatine you consume from your normal diet.....so if u eat meat and fish, you'll prob get zip whereas a vegan could receive more of a benefit. in any event unless u are a track sprinter its really not necessary. the side effects are that you retain more water and will put on slightly more weight....some people get a bloated feeling.

in regards to protein, and as TLL alluded to above, the average westerner eats way way more protein than is required and all you are doing is consuming additional calories. anyway, this provides some good info:

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition ... -_how_much" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Xplora]

You don't race, do you capt P?

Come back when you have been pipped at the post in the sprint a few times and have already maxed out your opportunities for safely increasing your training amongst the enormous amount of aerobic work required for cycling.

Slight boost? Hell yes. If its going to help you go from 900W to 950W over 10 seconds, that's races won vs races lost. Creatine is only going to be helpful for very specific training, but you MUST do that training if you expect to win and short term power is a weakness.

Here's a wakeup call for you - AIS deals with fulltime athletes. I don't have time for 600-800, or even 400k a week regularly. I cannot physically build the same base at those riders to avoid the issue. I doubt the Pro Tour takes creatine, but they also run 50% higher power than me. It's less of an issue for them. If creatine or something else helps me take shortcuts in a race legal way, I will do so. Rule 70, the purpose of racing is to win.

You make lots of assumptions about the vast range of diets and exercise opportunities for people in your post. I eat truckloads of meat, nuts, yet I benefit from magnesium supplementation enormously. I eat a balanced diet, it's not enough for some people because your body can't always process what it is given. I'm 73kgs over 6 foot tall... my body just doesn't absorb like other people. Careful supplementation helps me get results, and keeps me injury free (a traditional problem for me). Worth every penny.

[insightt47]

Ive heard so many people say creatine is useless for endurance cycling. Maybe thats true for cycling on flat roads at a steady pace, but In my experience I've found that creatine actually works for endurance cycling that encompasses a bit of climbing and sprinting. Because i ride the same path every day I remember exactly where my legs usually give out, but this last week I've found myself delightfully surprised when i arrive at the same point that I'm usually buggered only to realise that i can keep pushing hard for another 50-100m. Its usually after a short climb or prolonged maximum effort. Saying that I'm also beginning to feel less fatigued overall after my 100km/day efforts. So I agree with xplora that creatine would definitely be beneficial for endurance racing or any racing where short sprint efforts to get away from the pack are common.

Also, even if i didn't include any sprinting or climbing in my rides i doubt my body would be producing all of my energy via the aerobic pathway. I like to push myself to the limits every time i ride which means constantly riding just below my lactate threshold. I think thats what they call it, i haven't studied this stuff for years haha. That type of cycling involves putting down alot of power, which i doubt is being provided solely via the aerobic energy system.

[Xplora]

Yep, most of the research on endurance athletes is talking about pro cyclists doing stages, not amateurs racing crits. The style of riding is just completely different - also, the pro riders are working from an enormously bigger base. They can ride up Alpe du Huez without seeing a doctor after. They can sprint after 200kms at 70kmh. Their body has hammered for 4-5 hours, then lifts... I wouldn't expect that there would be value for the creatine because the body would be dedicated to that initial 4-5 hours.

I rode 4-5 hours on the weekend ride and I certainly wasn't in the mood for a sprint or a climb at the end.

[casual_cyclist]

Xplora why do you think I'm trolling? Do i sound that dumb? haha

No, just usually any protein thread usually degenerates into a pointless argument. Although the main perpetrator of this seems to be AWOL.

[toolonglegs]

Xplora why do you think I'm trolling? Do i sound that dumb? haha

No, just usually any protein thread usually degenerates into a pointless argument. Although the main perpetrator of this seems to be AWOL.

I notice the illustrious perp has changed his diet somewhat.

[casual_cyclist]

Xplora why do you think I'm trolling? Do i sound that dumb? haha

No, just usually any protein thread usually degenerates into a pointless argument. Although the main perpetrator of this seems to be AWOL.

I notice the illustrious perp has changed his diet somewhat.

Interesting. I didn't know that.